Why Lockdowns Are The Wrong Policy

postman

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
1,284
Clearly they messed up with the old care homes. Apparently there are issues with private care providers.
We had a similar scandal where I live in Quebec. In one home, all the employees stop showing up for work
and they left the people there on their own for days, without care, and half the residents died (all of covid, apparently lol)
In Sweden it's the opposite problem, people being diagnosed with covid but showing up to work anyways. Not that it makes any difference anyways because they have no protective equipment so if one person in a retirement home gets infected many more will as well. It's not an issue with just private care care providers, there just aren't any standards of care for public or private homes.
 

mrchibbs

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
3,135
Location
Atlantis
In Sweden it's the opposite problem, people being diagnosed with covid but showing up to work anyways. Not that it makes any difference anyways because they have no protective equipment so if one person in a retirement home gets infected many more will as well. It's not an issue with just private care care providers, there just aren't any standards of care for public or private homes.

That's terrible. But that seems to be an independent issue though.

Here, we have an incredible shortage (+2000) of health employees, so much so that I could get hired right this second and paid very well to go help out in an hospital or long-term care facility.

I think what covid19 has done is highlight the piss poor treatment of old people. In the US they've installed 5G towers directly on the roof of care homes, because they're the only population who won't protest it.

And maybe it's because I'm researching this topic intensely, but I think the heightened stress of the current situation is the ultimate cause of a lot of deaths. In many countries, sick old people received no care because of a perceived need to reserve resources for the impending apocalypse (i.e. CDC had predicted 2 million deaths of US citizens had this point) obviously this is not a pandemic, it's just a virus, and viruses have always killed people.
 

postman

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
1,284
That's terrible. But that seems to be an independent issue though.

Here, we have an incredible shortage (+2000) of health employees, so much so that I could get hired right this second and paid very well to go help out in an hospital or long-term care facility.

I think what covid19 has done is highlight the piss poor treatment of old people. In the US they've installed 5G towers directly on the roof of care homes, because they're the only population who won't protest it.

And maybe it's because I'm researching this topic intensely, but I think the heightened stress of the current situation is the ultimate cause of a lot of deaths. In many countries, sick old people received no care because of a perceived need to reserve resources for the impending apocalypse (i.e. CDC had predicted 2 million deaths of US citizens had this point) obviously this is not a pandemic, it's just a virus, and viruses have always killed people.
There is no doubt that lockdowns cause untold amounts of pain and suffering and deaths.

Regarding care for old people, in Sweden the standard treatment for old people with covid19 is to lay them in a comfortable position and give them morphine.
 

Alpha

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
236
I wonder if "flattening the curve'' means everybody stays home until a vaccine is available 1.5 years from now? Is that a sensible solution? There are outcries for health pundits saying herd immunity is not real, and that there is no evidence that it would protect people against it, but to me that sounds like ill-advised fear mongering. About a third of Stockholm as had the virus according to Sweden's Health Officials. Maybe 2% of Oslo has been exposed to it. Again, remember that the vast majority of people are asymptomatic, and Ray has explained several times how basic things like Vitamin D3 levels and thyroid function profoundly influence immunity. Things will improve during summer because of this (sunshine), but there will be a second wave in the fall. If the immunity argument is right, Sweden will barely feel anything then. Other countries, with no immunity whatsoever will

If the reason given is to prevent overloading the health care system, well in my city, hospitals are almost empty. And people with cancer, cardiovascular diseases or other problems haven't been treated all winter. Husbands are going nuts and beating their wives, people snap at clerks in stores, children are going depressed. Schools are about to reopen, and tons of parents are so afraid, they won't send their kids to school. Teachers don't want to come back.

Again, it is my impression that the lockdowns have caused more harm than good. Maybe an initial lockdown of 3-4 weeks was ok, this has gone on too long. Again, it's only my opinion.

I get what you mean, but let's also not underestimate the healthcare capacity to absorb large amounts of ill people, the fatality rate of the virus, or the fact that if it were taken more seriosly early on in the US, it would have been contained much more than it is today.
 
OP
Drareg

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
Lockdowns flatten the curve, that's the whole purpose behind them, in addition to reducing the spread of infection, both are absolutely necessary.

They don’t unless growth is exponential and more deadly ,they are not necessary for covid 19 as is clearly proven by the live data from countries like Sweden and Estonia, this could also be seen by chinas data and the cruise ship data.
The graphs are a spike and then come down, bad flu season is the correct way to view this.
 
OP
Drareg

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
I get what you mean, but let's also not underestimate the healthcare capacity to absorb large amounts of ill people, the fatality rate of the virus, or the fact that if it were taken more seriosly early on in the US, it would have been contained much more than it is today.

What do you mean by "fatality rate" ? ,it’s clearly media spin creating alarm around deaths without understanding true infection rates, PCR RNA amplifying techniques have been abused to create a far worse image than is actually present.

We now have public hysteria around any cough or sneeze, people with hay fever are going to the doctors convinced they have covid 19, the media have created this, the reality is if this wasn’t hyped up most people wouldn’t even know about it, 1 or 2 headlines and news reports on a bad flu season is all you would have got.

The "what if we hadn’t locked down" arguments are redundant when we have clear examples of the opposite .
 
OP
Drareg

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
Johan Giesecke is talking about how the priority has to be in making sure old people are protected and implies that this is Swedish policy but that's nonsense, no such action was taken. No executive action and barely any advisory action. He's a liar. And as usual they are using this autistic "evidence-based" argument as if you needed a randomized controlled double blind study to determine if being hit in the face is painful or not. They are always saying this "evidence based" meme. If you have a TSH of 4.5 and take thyroid and get well these people would say it wasn't evidence based and that there is no scientific basis for what you did. Many nurses who work in Swedish old folks homes have no protective equipment so if anyone gets infected the whole place gets infected for sure. I get triggered just seeing him and hearing him spread lies. But don't misunderstand me I'm not arguing in favor of lockdown.

He speaks about how people in nursing homes have been failed, he speaks about mistakes they have made , Sweden hasn’t been perfect and he acknowledges this, he doesn’t agree with lockdowns.

You’ve also referred to Swedes as brain dead retards, you need to take a break.
 

Alpha

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
236
They don’t unless growth is exponential and more deadly ,they are not necessary for covid 19 as is clearly proven by the live data from countries like Sweden and Estonia, this could also be seen by chinas data and the cruise ship data.
The graphs are a spike and then come down, bad flu season is the correct way to view this.

I'm not aware of Sweden's situation. Are they doing the herd immunity with no lockdowns and similar infection rates and fatalities as countries on full lockdowns like the US or UK?

Because that's the only way in my mind can I justify with some evidence against lockdowns? Unless we are saying more people getting sick and dying is better than economic meltdown.
 

ExD

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
157
People here are having street parties and the only place I see any kind of social distancing is in supermarkets. I've yet to meet a single person who even knows anyone that's even suspected of having covid-19 and the only time i hear it mentioned with any seriousness is when I speak to health care workers who are so marinated in fake news that asking them to explain the difference between "suspected" and "confirmed" makes them look like they're suffering from diahorrea

in three months the total death toll for the country is 430 as of this morning, and that includes the conflated statistics that don't actually require any testing to confirm that this number is in any way a measure of reality - bare in mind I live in the UK which is apparently the second most heavily affected area in the world, after the USA.

The people who are truly suffering are those who have lost their jobs as a result of this bull**** and are getting next to no support from the government that is perpetuating it to the point of ridiculousness.

Unless we are saying more people getting sick and dying is better than economic meltdown.

It is.

A financial depression will lead to war, famine and social catastrophe that will take vastly more lives than flu season ever could.
 
Last edited:
OP
Drareg

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
I'm not aware of Sweden's situation. Are they doing the herd immunity with no lockdowns and similar infection rates and fatalities as countries on full lockdowns like the US or UK?

Because that's the only way in my mind can I justify with some evidence against lockdowns? Unless we are saying more people getting sick and dying is better than economic meltdown.

Many countries do not have strict lockdowns ,Sweden, Belarus and many more, their death rates are no worse than countries with lockdowns, better in some cases.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 4,168,677 Cases and 283,200 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

The people getting sick and dying was inevitable , it’s a sad fact of reality, what were led to believe is the virus is exponential and causing an alarming number deaths, this isn’t the reality ,the lockdowns are redundant if the virus isn’t exponential, maybe lockdown some areas if they are overwhelmed but entire countries is not necessary , this has been politicized in the name of taking advantage of a crisis.

You can lock down at the start if you know nothing about the breakout ,governments didn’t do that, the virus was out and they then start lockdowns with the claim it’s exponential and will overwhelm the system, they are also manipulating PCR testing methods.
 
OP
Drareg

Drareg

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
4,772
Prof. Streeck's study (post above) is also discussed here.

Prof. Bhakdi (see here) said lockdowns are naive; they always come too late if it is a very infectious disease.

Disclaimer-
I’m starting to suspect that lockdown skeptics website leans to the extreme right, still it did start the debate on Ferguson’s code used which isn’t a bad thing, it forces them to release it, I get the impression race articles will appear soon, it has the Trojan horse vibe.

Interestingly Peat recently mentioned the far right garnering support during times like this and that website is an example.
 

boris

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
2,345


"Perspectives on the Pandemic Episode 5: In this highly-charged follow-up interview, Knut Wittkowski says his initial claim has been vindicated: The lockdowns - always a dubious proposition for a respiratory virus - came too late in the U.S. and elsewhere, and were therefore even worse than useless. By turns emotional and darkly comic, Wittkowski ranges across all the essential topics of the crisis, and gives answers you are unlikely to see in the major media. Not to be missed.

A transcript of this interview can be found https://www.thepressandthepublic.com/...

And, read Wittkowski's study here: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.03.28.20..."

00:15-Wittkowski explains his background
02:17-Reaching herd immunity in New York City
03:48-Does Wittkowski have a political agenda in his science?
04:44-How has Wittkowski’s assessment of the epidemic panned out?
07:37-Were peak infection rates reached before lockdown in some countries?
10:38-The state of New York City hospitals
12:01-Are we past peak COVID-19 infections?
14:00-On contact tracing
14:40-Were early calculations an honest mistake?
19:44-Did public officials forget that lockdown would cause more deaths?
22:20-Does COVID-19 self-limit?
25:41-Approaching herd immunity
28:43-Could we have reached herd immunity sooner?
33:35-Is sunshine and being outdoors really a way to combat COVID-19?
35:22-Bill Gates’ role in the pandemic
38:20-Debating the necessity of lockdowns to combat COVID-19
39:46-On the latest antibody tests and studies to have come out
44:16-COVID-19 is not fundamentally different than any other flu
47:43-Who is benefitting from the pandemic?
50:40-What’s happening in Sweden
52:07-Are we heading for a second spike of COVID-19?
56:20-Investigating the death toll
57:40-Is the pandemic fabricated?
59:43-The science behind our approach
01:02:06-What do we do now?
 

Hairfedup

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
465
People here are having street parties and the only place I see any kind of social distancing is in supermarkets. I've yet to meet a single person who even knows anyone that's even suspected of having covid-19 and the only time i hear it mentioned with any seriousness is when I speak to health care workers who are so marinated in fake news that asking them to explain the difference between "suspected" and "confirmed" makes them look like they're suffering from diahorrea

in three months the total death toll for the country is 430 as of this morning, and that includes the conflated statistics that don't actually require any testing to confirm that this number is in any way a measure of reality - bare in mind I live in the UK which is apparently the second most heavily affected area in the world, after the USA.

The people who are truly suffering are those who have lost their jobs as a result of this bull**** and are getting next to no support from the government that is perpetuating it to the point of ridiculousness.



It is.

A financial depression will lead to war, famine and social catastrophe that will take vastly more lives than flu season ever could.

Hey can you explain the three month total of 430 deaths? They are reporting 30k+ but it seems ridiculously high.
 

ExD

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
157
Hey can you explain the three month total of 430 deaths? They are reporting 30k+ but it seems ridiculously high.

It's the official death count for N. Ireland.

Lockdown went into place two months ago and we had "confirmed cases" a month before this. In fact I double checked and the BBC and Belfast telegraph are now reporting "official figures" with over a 20% discrepency.

430 total deaths on Sunday according to BBC, but 516 on Saturday according to our papers. Either people are coming back from the dead, or the "official numbers" are being made up.

the 30k+ number includes England, Scotland and Wales and the fact that practically anyone who dies is being added to the fatality count whether they were sick or not. Either way, the fatality rate is less than 0.03%
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
283
I'm talking about Sweden, nobody in Sweden has been isolated for 3 months

Corona deaths today:
Sweden: 135
Norway: 1
Denmark: 8
Finland: 5

I usually hate getting involved in these debates, but I have to point out that it's important to at least consider the possibility that countries such as Sweden have higher deaths NOW, because they haven't flattened the curve - but in not flattening it, they have indeed shortened it.

Whereas countries that have flattened the curve, quite possibly have also elongated it. And quite possibly there will be the same average mortality rate across the board, given enough time. So countries that "flatten" the curve, will only just elongate it, and deal with it over a longer period of time; whereas countries that don't flatten the curve have more deaths now, but will have fewer in the future.

 

Energizer

Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
611
Lockdowns are a great policy actually, for certain people. Fauci and his crew of critters at the WHO and CDC along with William Henry Gates III and Melinda Gates should be "locked down" in federal prison. I'm sure a lot of graphs can be "drawn up" as they were for the COVID fraud for the lives saved by them no longer being able to harm the public with their fear-mongering stupidity.
 
Last edited:

Regina

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
6,511
Location
Chicago
Lockdowns are a great policy actually, for certain people. Fauci and his crew of critters at the WHO and CDC along with William Henry Gates III and Melinda Gates should be "locked down" in federal prison. I'm sure a lot of graphs can be "drawn up" as they were for the COVID fraud for the lives saved by them no longer being able to harm the public with their fear-mongering stupidity.
Yes. Lockdowned on a gurney while each and every one of their vaccines are administered every n random minutes.
 

boris

Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
2,345
I usually hate getting involved in these debates, but I have to point out that it's important to at least consider the possibility that countries such as Sweden have higher deaths NOW, because they haven't flattened the curve - but in not flattening it, they have indeed shortened it.

Whereas countries that have flattened the curve, quite possibly have also elongated it. And quite possibly there will be the same average mortality rate across the board, given enough time. So countries that "flatten" the curve, will only just elongate it, and deal with it over a longer period of time; whereas countries that don't flatten the curve have more deaths now, but will have fewer in the future.



Exactly. People forgot very quickly what the initial narrative was. „Flatten the curve“ never meant they will be able to stop the spread. They said we have to flatten the curve to spread the infections out over a longer period of time so the medical system doesn‘t get „overburdened“ and to buy time until our saviour arrives (Bill Gates with the vaccine) :rolleyes:.

The official narrative seems to change weekly, no wonder it‘s hard to keep track.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom