Why Lockdowns Are The Wrong Policy

Drareg

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If your politicians couldn’t be bothered to carry out ring fencing immediately when an unknown outbreak is ongoing then it’s too late, something intuitively known by many of us. When it’s known what it is and is not as deadly as thought ease the lockdown and protect those more vulnerable like the elderly.

None of the above was done even in countries that are islands, flights still allowed in even when the citizens were in lockdown ! All of a sudden they enact legislation in Europe that is essentially a police state in the name of containing what is already out.
Now they are spinning the news and statistics to try temper the economic backlash.

The below video can’t be considered conspiracy because of who they are interviewing but still observe how he will ignored by the main propaganda outlets.

Remember the main advisors to countries were the WHO ,we know the WHO is pretty much bought by Bill Gates and it just so happens bill gates is linked to Jeffrey Epstein the child sex trafficker which links in to more significant elite types with immense financial power, keep this in mind and ask who stands to benefit the most from the economic carnage and the potential tracking of people,this is wag the dog, change the story on a massive scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=983&v=bfN2JWifLCY&feature=emb_title
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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Ferguson who is in opposition to the Professor in the above video.

He doesn’t agree with lockdown is what he is implying ,trying to blame politicians ,the excess mortality is probably because of lack of healthcare from other issues and also from isolation then goes on to claim said issues would be worse if we didn’t lock down however??? he is pro tracking people.

"We will not go back to normal" ,this narrative is nauseating and is clearly an agenda from "experts" who have their heads buried in models that are flawed,no doubt many of them are from the cult of neodarwinism, keeps shilling for vaccines, are you noticing how vaccines are being implied as being a cure without saying they are cure,in other words vaccines are mentioned in a context that implies a cure.

"

This is the expert advising the uk based on his "models",incredible,he is delusional and riddled with contradiction,it’s all what if’s again. He then goes on to claim he is a scientist and claims he can help predict the future and advise politicians ,ironically his models are not based on science !

It’s part liar and actually believing their own pseudoscience, search around for Ferguson’s track record with his models,it’s priceless to think he is considered an expert.

As predicted the only narrative they have left when the numbers come in is that it would have been way worse if we didn’t lock down and breach your constitutional rights, to debunk this narrative with friends or family please point out past predictions of said experts for swine flu ,Bird flu etc ,we didn’t take action in the past for swine flu or bird flu like we have done for coronavirus and their predictions were way off ,I got the following from the video comments -"In 2009, one of Ferguson's models predicted 65,000 people could die from the Swine Flu outbreak in the UK — the final figure was below 500. Similarly, he was accused of creating panic by overestimating the potential death toll during the 2005 Bird Flu outbreak. Ferguson estimated 200 million could die. The real number was in the low hundreds"
The WHO have had similar crazy past predictions not acted upon until now.


Remember for people considered experts like Ferguson they will not be going back to normal as they will be financially better off from consultancy fees,interview fees and possible book deals,don’t forget extension of tenure.




 

BearWithMe

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From government's perspective, lockdowns are the right policy, because the goal of lockdowns never was the prevention of coronavirus spread.
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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Posting this here also.

Take him with a grain of salt IMO,I detect an angle with his views ,he starts blaming the boomers for this, this isn’t a generational issue imo, the younger generation have lapped this up, he also alludes to cashless society, smart lockdowns which I think is using tech more for lockdowns and is critical of the boomers allowing population growth to get out of control.

Would be interesting to look more into what he mentions about Ferguson’s paper being relative only to exponential process being present,I get the impression the "experts"have realized this including Ferguson so now they are playing politics on how to back out of it.

"His observation is a simple one: that in outbreak after outbreak of this disease, a similar mathematical pattern is observable regardless of government interventions. After around a two week exponential growth of cases (and, subsequently, deaths) some kind of break kicks in, and growth starts slowing down. The curve quickly becomes “sub-exponential”.

This may seem like a technical distinction, but its implications are profound. The ‘unmitigated’ scenarios modelled by (among others) Imperial College, and which tilted governments across the world into drastic action, relied on a presumption of continued exponential growth — that with a consistent R number of significantly above 1 and a consistent death rate, very quickly the majority of the population would be infected and huge numbers of deaths would be recorded. But Professor Levitt’s point is that that hasn’t actually happened anywhere, even in countries that have been relatively lax in their responses.

He takes specific issue with the Neil Ferguson paper. “In a footnote to a table it said, assuming exponential growth of 15% for six days. Now I had looked at China and had never seen exponential growth that wasn’t decaying rapidly.”

Nobel prize-winning scientist: the Covid-19 epidemic was never exponential - The Post

 

Giraffe

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Prof. Streeck's study (post above) is also discussed here.

Prof. Bhakdi (see here) said lockdowns are naive; they always come too late if it is a very infectious disease.
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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Prof. Streeck's study (post above) is also discussed here.

Prof. Bhakdi (see here) said lockdowns are naive; they always come too late if it is a very infectious disease.

Thanks.
This time the elite types have drawn in the middle classes, the frustration is building amongst the middle class as they see the actual "scientific facts".
The pop culture TV heads are useless ,they have completely swallowed the narrative or veered into infantile conspiracies.

Generally resistance starts with the middle classes so hopefully this movement grows, the more Europe narrative is building ,Christine lagarde was trumpeting it again today.
The arrogance to think they have support for this with what’s going on, they are going to try blackmail the middle class with their livelihoods or collapse if they don’t go more Europe imo.
The German Supreme Court ruling against the ECB is also telling regardless of which political party took the case, the ECB’s response shows they have no respect for national constitutions but despise them.

I don’t support a Europe under this guise, it’s become delusional. It’s like we are mice they can experiment with for their project.

Websites like this are growing -How Reliable is Imperial College’s Modelling? – Lockdown Sceptics
 

postman

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Of course lockdowns help minimize mortality. That Swedish professor is a braindead retard, like most Swedes. But it's absolutely rediculous to quarantine whole countries and barely let people go outside for what basically amounts to a severe flu.
 

mrchibbs

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Of course lockdowns help minimize mortality. That Swedish professor is a braindead retard, like most Swedes. But it's absolutely rediculous to quarantine whole countries and barely let people go outside for what basically amounts to a severe flu.

Mortality is overwhelmingly (95%) occurring among elderly people in care homes or hospitals. And I suspect the stress of isolation and doomsday news is what killed most of them. My grandma hasn't been allowed to see anyone for 3 months. She's a resilient woman, and speaks to many people on the phone daily, but many of her friends are going nuts (as in dementia) in the last few weeks. She lives alone. Thankfully I gave her some progesterone and she has a porch to get some sun exposure, and she drinks milk daily.

Lockdowns are not helping. What the swedes did was perfectly fine. They should focus the resources on the elderly, and let the rest of us live our lives. Hospitals are empty across N.A. there's no danger of overburdening the system. Moreover, kids are developing anxiety and depression.

But they've managed to scare people so much that many parents don't want to ever send their kids back to school. It's a nightmare.
 

tankasnowgod

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Of course lockdowns help minimize mortality.

Really? What are you basing this on? What experiments or scientific papers are you referring to?

Are death rates in prisons lower than in the general population?

It would also be nice to know length of lockdown, and for what amount of people.
 

postman

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Really? What are you basing this on? What experiments or scientific papers are you referring to?

Are death rates in prisons lower than in the general population?

It would also be nice to know length of lockdown, and for what amount of people.
Just compare Sweden to Norway/Denmark/Finland.

Mortality is overwhelmingly (95%) occurring among elderly people in care homes or hospitals. And I suspect the stress of isolation and doomsday news is what killed most of them.
Flat earth tier nonsense.
 

mrchibbs

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postman

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Great comment dude. Nice talking to you.
Thousands of people people don't suffocate to death because they haven't seen their relatives in a month and to suggest so is silly. Also there haven't even been any general restrictions in Swedish old folks homes, every home decides their own policy. Old people are moving freely in Swedish society although most old folks home are not allowing visitors at the moment.
 

Alpha

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Lockdowns flatten the curve, that's the whole purpose behind them, in addition to reducing the spread of infection, both are absolutely necessary.
 

mrchibbs

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Thousands of people people don't suffocate to death because they haven't seen their relatives in a month and to suggest so is silly. Also there haven't even been any general restrictions in Swedish old folks homes, every home decides their own policy. Old people are moving freely in Swedish society although most old folks home are not allowing visitors at the moment.

If you want to debate with me, then do so, don't reduce my arguments to flat-earthism. Take them apart and prove me wrong.
Insults and dismissive remarks won't get you anywhere. I do believe you understate the health impacts of fear and solitude. It's now nearly
3 months of total isolation (they can't go to the store or leave their apartment) over here, not 1 month.

Sweden has twice the population of Norway or Denmark. So right away they're bound to have more cases/deaths than the others.
Based on my understanding of the situation, I believe statistics everywhere are inflated. I may be wrong, but I infer on what
I see in the U.S. and Canada (where I live). Thousands of deaths daily are classified as covid with no evidence to back it up.

Several US States have been caught doing this, partly to scare the people into staying home. In my province (the most heavily
stricken one in Canada), the vast, overwhelming majority of cases and deaths (75%+) are in elders in care homes or hospitals. I bumped
this number up to 95% (it could be 90% or even 85%) because I believe the other cases are overstated. Again I maybe wrong, but this is my perspective, based on
the data I've seen.

Lockdowns flatten the curve, that's the whole purpose behind them, in addition to reducing the spread of infection, both are absolutely necessary.

I wonder if "flattening the curve'' means everybody stays home until a vaccine is available 1.5 years from now? Is that a sensible solution? There are outcries for health pundits saying herd immunity is not real, and that there is no evidence that it would protect people against it, but to me that sounds like ill-advised fear mongering. About a third of Stockholm as had the virus according to Sweden's Health Officials. Maybe 2% of Oslo has been exposed to it. Again, remember that the vast majority of people are asymptomatic, and Ray has explained several times how basic things like Vitamin D3 levels and thyroid function profoundly influence immunity. Things will improve during summer because of this (sunshine), but there will be a second wave in the fall. If the immunity argument is right, Sweden will barely feel anything then. Other countries, with no immunity whatsoever will

If the reason given is to prevent overloading the health care system, well in my city, hospitals are almost empty. And people with cancer, cardiovascular diseases or other problems haven't been treated all winter. Husbands are going nuts and beating their wives, people snap at clerks in stores, children are going depressed. Schools are about to reopen, and tons of parents are so afraid, they won't send their kids to school. Teachers don't want to come back.

Again, it is my impression that the lockdowns have caused more harm than good. Maybe an initial lockdown of 3-4 weeks was ok, this has gone on too long. Again, it's only my opinion.
 

postman

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Johan Giesecke is talking about how the priority has to be in making sure old people are protected and implies that this is Swedish policy but that's nonsense, no such action was taken. No executive action and barely any advisory action. He's a liar. And as usual they are using this autistic "evidence-based" argument as if you needed a randomized controlled double blind study to determine if being hit in the face is painful or not. They are always saying this "evidence based" meme. If you have a TSH of 4.5 and take thyroid and get well these people would say it wasn't evidence based and that there is no scientific basis for what you did. Many nurses who work in Swedish old folks homes have no protective equipment so if anyone gets infected the whole place gets infected for sure. I get triggered just seeing him and hearing him spread lies. But don't misunderstand me I'm not arguing in favor of lockdown.
 

mrchibbs

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Johan Giesecke is talking about how the priority has to be in making sure old people are protected and implies that this is Swedish policy but that's nonsense, no such action was taken. No executive action and barely any advisory action. He's a liar. And as usual they are using this autistic "evidence-based" argument as if you needed a randomized controlled double blind study to determine if being hit in the face is painful or not. They are always saying this "evidence based" meme. If you have a TSH of 4.5 and take thyroid and get well these people would say it wasn't evidence based and that there is no scientific basis for what you did. Many nurses who work in Swedish old folks homes have no protective equipment so if anyone gets infected the whole place gets infected for sure. I get triggered just seeing him and hearing him spread lies. But don't misunderstand me I'm not arguing in favor of lockdown.

I think you're right, it's not like Sweden took those steps. Here is Anders Tegnell addressing the concerns of herd immunity, while acknowledging the failure to protect old people:

Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell says other countries could face big ‘second wave’
 

postman

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If you want to debate with me, then do so, don't reduce my arguments to flat-earthism. Take them apart and prove me wrong.
Insults and dismissive remarks won't get you anywhere. I do believe you understate the health impacts of fear and solitude. It's now nearly
3 months of total isolation (they can't go to the store or leave their apartment) over here, not 1 month.

Sweden has twice the population of Norway or Denmark. So right away they're bound to have more cases/deaths than the others.
Based on my understanding of the situation, I believe statistics everywhere are inflated. I may be wrong, but I infer on what
I see in the U.S. and Canada (where I live). Thousands of deaths daily are classified as covid with no evidence to back it up.

Several US States have been caught doing this, partly to scare the people into staying home. In my province (the most heavily
stricken one in Canada), the vast, overwhelming majority of cases and deaths (75%+) are in elders in care homes or hospitals. I bumped
this number up to 95% (it could be 90% or even 85%) because I believe the other cases are overstated. Again I maybe wrong, but this is my perspective, based on
the data I've seen.



I wonder if "flattening the curve'' means everybody stays home until a vaccine is available 1.5 years from now? Is that a sensible solution? There are outcries for health pundits saying herd immunity is not real, and that there is no evidence that it would protect people against it, but to me that sounds like ill-advised fear mongering. About a third of Stockholm as had the virus according to Sweden's Health Officials. Maybe 2% of Oslo has been exposed to it. Again, remember that the vast majority of people are asymptomatic, and Ray has explained several times how basic things like Vitamin D3 levels and thyroid function profoundly influence immunity. Things will improve during summer because of this (sunshine), but there will be a second wave in the fall. If the immunity argument is right, Sweden will barely feel anything then. Other countries, with no immunity whatsoever will

If the reason given is to prevent overloading the health care system, well in my city, hospitals are almost empty. And people with cancer, cardiovascular diseases or other problems haven't been treated all winter. Husbands are going nuts and beating their wives, people snap at clerks in stores, children are going depressed. Schools are about to reopen, and tons of parents are so afraid, they won't send their kids to school. Teachers don't want to come back.

Again, it is my impression that the lockdowns have caused more harm than good. Maybe an initial lockdown of 3-4 weeks was ok, this has gone on too long. Again, it's only my opinion.
I'm talking about Sweden, nobody in Sweden has been isolated for 3 months

Corona deaths today:
Sweden: 135
Norway: 1
Denmark: 8
Finland: 5
 

mrchibbs

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I'm talking about Sweden, nobody in Sweden has been isolated for 3 months

Corona deaths today:
Sweden: 135
Norway: 1
Denmark: 8
Finland: 5

Clearly they messed up with the old care homes. Apparently there are issues with private care providers.
We had a similar scandal where I live in Quebec. In one home, all the employees stop showing up for work
and they left the people there on their own for days, without care, and half the residents died (all of covid, apparently lol)
 

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