Why Isn't There More Enthousiasm About MCT Oil?

[Stryker]

Same.

in what amounts?

I understand what you're saying! It's a zero PUFA fat source so you'd think people here would utilize it somewhat. The reasons I don't use it are...

Coconut oil is cheaper.

MCT oil has the lauric acid removed.

I am under the impression that it is inadvisable to cook with MCT oil.

dont know if the amount consumed with normal CO use apply but lauric acid reduces DHT?

 

[Mito]

MCT Oil ***** up my guts and gives me the shits. Coconut oil. No problem. That's why I don't use it! :)

Ray on MCT's: (Ask the Herb Doctor caller asked if MCT oil does every good thing that coconut oil does?)
"....essentially their doing the same thing of bypassing your stored polyunsaturated fats and letting you oxidize more safely the saturated fats but one of the problems is that they are so mobile relative the longer chains that they can be irritating to your stomach and intestines. You have to take it in a good balance with other foods."

 

[shepherdgirl]

Ray from his article "Coconut Oil":

The shorter-chain fatty acids have strong, unpleasant odors; for a couple of days after I ate a small amount of a medium-chain triglyceride mixture, my skin oil emitted a rank, goaty smell. Some people don't seem to have that reaction, and the benefits might outweigh the stink, but these things just haven't been in use long enough to know whether they are safe.

Anyone experience this goaty smell?

 

[Wagner83]

MCT Oil ***** up my guts and gives me the shits. Coconut oil. No problem. That's why I don't use it! :)

Same.

I've seen someone use mct oil as his main calories source (and it seems to work well), he just has to make sure he doesn't take too much at once otherwise go go gadget diarrhea . For the record he emulsifies the oil in egg yolk and add some fat soluble vitamins.

 

[Mito]

"If the basic foods were chosen for minimal unsaturated fats, then coconut oil wouldn't add much of value."-RP

"Just about everything that goes wrong involves FFA increase. If they are totally saturated fatty acids, such as from coconut oil and butter, those are less harmful, but they still tend to shift the mitochondrial cellular metabolism away from using glucose and fructose and turning on various stress related things; By lowering the carbon dioxide production I think is the main mechanism."-RP

I think it should be used more for cooking protein like eggs or meat than a direct calorie source, or used as skin moisturizer or lube.

Ray talks about the benefits of the "MCT portion" of coconut oil and how it does not interfer with glucose metabolism (Randle Cycle) like longer chain saturated fats do. In fact it also activates glucose oxidation. He specifically mentions C10 but I think C8 has even greater effects.

"Coconut oil is in the medium-chained lengths, that includes some of the very short-chain saturated fats; mostly it’s 14 and 16 carbon chains. The shortness of the chain means that it's very mobile in your system. And the shorter saturated fats can be handled in the mitochondria without relying on the transport systems for handling 18 carbon chains for example. The 10 carbon chains can be oxidized as easily as glucose. And so, instead of interfering with glucose metabolism and switching the whole mitochondrial function, they can participate and even activate the glucose oxidation. They interfere with the anti-metabolic effects of the unsaturated fats. By interfering with the anti-metabolites, they let the mitochondria run at full speed; and that works as if you were giving a thyroid supplement. The unsaturated fats interfere with all of the effects of thyroid; all the way from the gland secreting the hormone, the proteins transporting thyroid hormone, and the cells responding to it. So, at all of those points, coconut oil is probably getting in the way of the suppressive effects of the polyunsaturated fats. But especially in the mitochondrion, where the coconut oil itself is being very quickly burned and used as energy."

 

[Wagner83]

Here are two interesting papers posted by VoS over there.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I just bought MCT oil for the first time and added about a tablespoon of it to a meal. I've never felt a meal digest so easily

 

[damngoodcoffee]

My breath does smell like goat however

 

[Wagner83]

Ha Ray said something similar I think that's why he stopped using it.

 

[TheDrumGuy]

Ray talks about the benefits of the "MCT portion" of coconut oil and how it does not interfer with glucose metabolism (Randle Cycle) like longer chain saturated fats do. In fact it also activates glucose oxidation. He specifically mentions C10 but I think C8 has even greater effects.

"Coconut oil is in the medium-chained lengths, that includes some of the very short-chain saturated fats; mostly it’s 14 and 16 carbon chains. The shortness of the chain means that it's very mobile in your system. And the shorter saturated fats can be handled in the mitochondria without relying on the transport systems for handling 18 carbon chains for example. The 10 carbon chains can be oxidized as easily as glucose. And so, instead of interfering with glucose metabolism and switching the whole mitochondrial function, they can participate and even activate the glucose oxidation. They interfere with the anti-metabolic effects of the unsaturated fats. By interfering with the anti-metabolites, they let the mitochondria run at full speed; and that works as if you were giving a thyroid supplement. The unsaturated fats interfere with all of the effects of thyroid; all the way from the gland secreting the hormone, the proteins transporting thyroid hormone, and the cells responding to it. So, at all of those points, coconut oil is probably getting in the way of the suppressive effects of the polyunsaturated fats. But especially in the mitochondrion, where the coconut oil itself is being very quickly burned and used as energy."

That may be, but burning pretty much any fat for energy will tend produce less CO2 for the same energy consumption, which according to the quote above is what he believes is the main problem. So MCT oil may not interfere with glucose oxidation directly, but it will still lower CO2 production, which is what he believes is the main "problem".

A bit off topic, but if Peat views CO2 production as so important, does this mean that he recommends against a high fat diet? By this logic one would want to minimize fat intake.

 

[biggirlkisss]

i get confused can you still gain weight with mct oil?

 

[Mito]

That may be, but burning pretty much any fat for energy will tend produce less CO2 for the same energy consumption, which according to the quote above is what he believes is the main problem. So MCT oil may not interfere with glucose oxidation directly, but it will still lower CO2 production, which is what he believes is the main "problem".

A bit off topic, but if Peat views CO2 production as so important, does this mean that he recommends against a high fat diet? By this logic one would want to minimize fat intake.

Oxidation of carbs generates 50% more CO2 than fat Fat Vs Sugar - Mitochondrial Oxidation, CO2, Krebs Cycle.

I have not read/heard Peat recommend a “high” anything diet. He likes carbs because of CO2 and several other reasons, he typically recommends 80-100 grams or more of protein and he talks favorably about coconut oil and butter.

 

[TheDrumGuy]

Oxidation of carbs generates 50% more CO2 than fat Fat Vs Sugar - Mitochondrial Oxidation, CO2, Krebs Cycle.

I have not read/heard Peat recommend a “high” anything diet. He likes carbs because of CO2 and several other reasons, he typically recommends 80-100 grams or more of protein and he talks favorably about coconut oil and butter.

Right and that makes sense. But I see some people here trying moderate/high-ish fat, wouldn't that be anti-Peat? Has Peat ever recommended some upper limit on fat intake?

 

[Mito]

Right and that makes sense. But I see some people here trying moderate/high-ish fat, wouldn't that be anti-Peat? Has Peat ever recommended some upper limit on fat intake?

Not that I know of but given his stance on keeping PUFA limited to 4 grams/day or less, it would be difficult to eat high fat and keep PUFA that low.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

I was actually looking at my mct bottle ingredients the other day .... besides coconut oil it also has palm oil in it. I personally didnt like that

Palmitic acid, according to some accounts, might be inflammatory. Any chemists with insights?

 

[ddjd]

Palmitic acid, according to some accounts, might be inflammatory. Any chemists with insights?

there is no palmitic in mct

 

[Dave Clark]

As you can see on the details of this link, MCT can be extracted from palm or coconut oil, but doesn't have any other properties of those particular oils. As far as cost, at about $24/gallon, I would say this oil is very cost effective. I have been buying from Jedwards for years, good products and good prices. MCT Oil 60/40 (Medium Chain Triglyceride)

 

[achillea]

The unique properties of this synthetic fat could lead to the development of food allergies, (Li, et al 2013)
From Ray Peat Newsletter page 3-4 November 2019

 

[tca300]

The unique properties of this synthetic fat could lead to the development of food allergies, (Li, et al 2013)
From Ray Peat Newsletter page 3-4 November 2019

It could be a coincidence but when I was doing a very low fat experiment a few years ago ( using only MCT as my fat source ) about over a years time I became very sensitive to many foods and very allergic to aspirin. I still am several years later. If I could go back in time I would have never touched the stuff.

I tried about 40mg of aspirin dissolved in water with a meal a few weeks ago and had lava diarrhea for about 4 hours. I laugh now because it's over but at the time I wanted to die. Before MCT, aspirin just made me extra warm with zero negative symptoms. Any foods with salicylate now gives me terrible symptoms.

 

[Dave Clark]

Interesting how something is defined as good or bad. The authors of this study think MCT oils are bad because they reduce omega-3 fats:
Medium Chain Triglyceride Oil: An Intended Placebo with Unexpected Adverse Effects | Insight Medical Publishing