Why Is Phenibut So Amazing?

[sprinter]

Phenibut works largely through being a calcium channel blocker which I believe is the main mechanism of its anti-excitation effects- not GABA so much.

So it blocks calcium? I thought calcium was good?

 

[sprinter]

It's literally GABA with a phenyl group...

Are you alluding to something that should be obvious? If so, can you tell me what that is?

 

[Such_Saturation]

Are you alluding to something that should be obvious? If so, can you tell me what that is?

The normal idea is that it's exactly like GABA. Hence it is mainly GABA action. The only modification is to make it absorbable by the brain.

 

[bawild]

35mg of tianeptine sulfate every 12 hours. (8 am & 8 pm). Same dosing schedule for the neurosteroids (3 drops androsterone + 6 drops pregnenalone + 5mg DHEA (oral)).

 

[sprinter]

The normal idea is that it's exactly like GABA. Hence it is mainly GABA action. The only modification is to make it absorbable by the brain.

Oh, I see now. Phenibut is basically GABA that can cross the blood brain barrier.

Such_Saturation, what is your opinion on taking GABA or Phenibut? Do you know of any substitute that you think Peat would approve of?

 

[MB50]

I tried some high dose myo-inositol (12-15g; although studies in humans have gone to 20g in a single dose with gastrointestinal issues being the only side effect) over the past two weeks after reading about its benefits for anxiety while researching its effectiveness for PCOS symptoms. Although I don't really suffer from anxiety or PCOS haha, I will say that the high dose inositol will really loosen you up (physically and mentally...) and for anybody who does suffer from anxiety, I would give it a shot. You should be warned though, around 14g and there will almost certainly be some gastrointestinal discomfort. For me it wasn't terrible, but its not something I would put myself through everyday.

 

[Dopamine]

So it blocks calcium? I thought calcium was good?

It's good if it's regulated properly. I'm not a biochemist so my understanding is limited beyond that.

The normal idea is that it's exactly like GABA. Hence it is mainly GABA action. The only modification is to make it absorbable by the brain.

You would think so. Wikipedia is pretty clear though that yes its a GABA agonist however its preferentially a VGCC blocker. Not like wiki is the best source of info haha but they have citations. The effect could be mediated through GABA or reduced glutamate I don't know.

"Originally thought to act as a selective GABAB receptor agonist, phenibut has since been found to act preferentially as a blocker of α2δ subunit-containing voltage-gated calcium channels, similarly to gabapentin and pregabalin.[9][10]As such, by definition, phenibut is a gabapentinoid.[11][12]"

 

[Kray]

Lowering cortisol helps a lot with anxiety. I would try Lapodin or cascara Sagrada if you don't do DMSO.

Pointless-- Can you clarify your comment re: DMSO? Thanks

 

[DaveFoster]

Bacopa is full of heavy metals.

Bioaccumulation of Heavy metals in Bacopa monnieri (L.) Pennell growing under different habitat.

 

[Pointless]

Pointless-- Can you clarify your comment re: DMSO? Thanks

Dr. Peat has said that chronic or high doses of DMSO could have unpredictable effects. No toxicity or serious side effects have ever been reported, but it will dissolve artificial compounds and draw them into the body. Some people are allergic to it.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

I had very bad withdrawal symptoms from Phenibut. I was taking a liposomal form which was supposedly more powerful. Had negative thoughts and anxiety in spades when not taking it.

 

[Kray]

Dr. Peat has said that chronic or high doses of DMSO could have unpredictable effects. No toxicity or serious side effects have ever been reported, but it will dissolve artificial compounds and draw them into the body. Some people are allergic to it.

Thanks for that-- I'm taking at least 3 supplements that have DMSO in them (IdeaLabs); is that enough to worry if you're not otherwise "sensitive" to DMSO? I sometimes take such supplements orally (Kuinone on gum area). I try to remember to have clean skin when applying topically per your point about absorption issues.

Thanks-

 

[Pointless]

Thanks for that-- I'm taking at least 3 supplements that have DMSO in them (IdeaLabs); is that enough to worry if you're not otherwise "sensitive" to DMSO? I sometimes take such supplements orally (Kuinone on gum area). I try to remember to have clean skin when applying topically per your point about absorption issues.

Thanks-

It depends on how many drops you're using of each. There's nothing set in stone about how much DMSO is risky or even if there is any toxicity from any amount of DMSO (all clinical trials have shown no toxicity as far as I know). Me personally I'm trying to stay around 5 drops per day. I am looking into NDT from Thiroyd, and I'm using high-dose K2 from Health Natura to mitigate my exposure to DMSO from TyroMax and Kuinone. Lapodin is a great supplement, and there's nothing else quite like it, so I'm using that. The steroids I feel work best at just 1-2 drops/day, but I"m not taking any of those atm.

I feel that if there's a body odor, there's definitely too much, but other than that, I would just go with what works best.

 

[Kray]

Pointless: Sorry this is going off-topic, but your comments re: Lapodin has piqued my interest as well. If you want to PM, let me know, but I have Lapodin too but not sure what to think of it just yet. Have been a long-term cascara user and would like to consider switching over to Lapodin exclusively, thought maybe you could provide some insights into your experience with it, since you sound so enthusiastic! Thank you-

 

[Pointless]

Pointless: Sorry this is going off-topic, but your comments re: Lapodin has piqued my interest as well. If you want to PM, let me know, but I have Lapodin too but not sure what to think of it just yet. Have been a long-term cascara user and would like to consider switching over to Lapodin exclusively, thought maybe you could provide some insights into your experience with it, since you sound so enthusiastic! Thank you-

I wouldn't say I'm totally enthusiastic about it. What I'm sure of is that it powerfully lowers cortisol. This has its pros and cons.

The pro is that there is a very good chance that it could eliminate anxiety. I know people that have taken cortisol-lowering supplements for anxiety, and it has been effective. Whenever I get anxious because of stress or a bad reaction to a supplement, Lapodin eliminates that. People here are talking about a gabaergic strategy for dealing with anxiety, and that can work too. That is how benzodiazepines work. But gabaergics have issues: tolerance, dependency, withdrawls, side effects.

The con is that cortisol has many beneficial functions. It might be unwise to lower it too much as long as there are systemic problems like hypothyroid, endotoxin, serotonin, magnesium deficiency, etc. What will happen is that you will lose the anti-inflammatory benefits of cortisol, and you may have problems with the skin, gut or joints, or some other kind of inflammatory issue. If you are on some good thyroid, then by all means, lower cortisol as much as you can tolerate without side effects, but take it easy and see if there are any side effects that pop up with small doses of Lapodin. I only tolerate 1 or 2 drops a day, or I get eczema breakouts. I used to get gut pains, hemorrhoids, and acne from lowering cortisol. Hopefully that won't return. Knock on wood.

I have taken many supplements that lower cortisol. Holy basil, silicic acid, and sodium thiosulfate. Since I have also taken supplements that raise cortisol like licorice root, I know what it's like to have high cortisol, and to have low cortisol. I know the problems with both ends. Obviously Lapodin is the Peatiest of the cortisol-lowering substances, and it's always best to have low cortisol. But if there are side effects, there may be other systemic issues to deal with first.

Also, read Haidut's Lapodin post, and read the studies that he posted, at least the titles. It will give you an idea of the broad range of benefits that it has. Quinones 4 lyfe!

 

[William Wilson]

I had very bad withdrawal symptoms from Phenibut. I was taking a liposomal form which was supposedly more powerful. Had negative thoughts and anxiety in spades when not taking it.

I noticed ZERO effect from Phenibut. Tried very large doses something like 10-30 times the bottle's recommend dose (as powder - 0.01 mg scale) years ago. Zero effect, zero withdrawal. GABA is the same, no effect except the skin tingling at 2 grams and above (similar to niacin yet very different). The only thing that ever worked was xanax, theanine, and Kava. Xanax became a goto sleeping aid after it stopped doing anything for anxiety and after some research came out noting that cases of sudden death in benzo users were several times higher than non-users, I stopped cold turkey. No withdrawal on the Xanax either. Weirdly, I've never found anything addictive [if I don't include white bread and sugar ;-( ]. L-Theanine still works, always has, although I prefer a 600 mg dose. Kava has always worked too (ignore the FDA scare mongering) but I rarely use it anymore.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Androsterone is a great GABA agonist, so it's what I use for sleep now. Works well. 4 drops puts me on my back unless I use it with DHEA.

 

[InChristAlone]

I wouldn't say I'm totally enthusiastic about it. What I'm sure of is that it powerfully lowers cortisol. This has its pros and cons.

The pro is that there is a very good chance that it could eliminate anxiety. I know people that have taken cortisol-lowering supplements for anxiety, and it has been effective. Whenever I get anxious because of stress or a bad reaction to a supplement, Lapodin eliminates that. People here are talking about a gabaergic strategy for dealing with anxiety, and that can work too. That is how benzodiazepines work. But gabaergics have issues: tolerance, dependency, withdrawls, side effects.

The con is that cortisol has many beneficial functions. It might be unwise to lower it too much as long as there are systemic problems like hypothyroid, endotoxin, serotonin, magnesium deficiency, etc. What will happen is that you will lose the anti-inflammatory benefits of cortisol, and you may have problems with the skin, gut or joints, or some other kind of inflammatory issue. If you are on some good thyroid, then by all means, lower cortisol as much as you can tolerate without side effects, but take it easy and see if there are any side effects that pop up with small doses of Lapodin. I only tolerate 1 or 2 drops a day, or I get eczema breakouts. I used to get gut pains, hemorrhoids, and acne from lowering cortisol. Hopefully that won't return. Knock on wood.

I have taken many supplements that lower cortisol. Holy basil, silicic acid, and sodium thiosulfate. Since I have also taken supplements that raise cortisol like licorice root, I know what it's like to have high cortisol, and to have low cortisol. I know the problems with both ends. Obviously Lapodin is the Peatiest of the cortisol-lowering substances, and it's always best to have low cortisol. But if there are side effects, there may be other systemic issues to deal with first.

Also, read Haidut's Lapodin post, and read the studies that he posted, at least the titles. It will give you an idea of the broad range of benefits that it has. Quinones 4 lyfe!

@bohogirl thought you might find this interesting, maybe you have low cortisol?? And so Peaty things can lower it even further and then you get an inflammatory condition like acne.

 

[Pointless]

@bohogirl thought you might find this interesting, maybe you have low cortisol?? And so Peaty things can lower it even further and then you get an inflammatory condition like acne.

I know in some corners of the net, adrenal fatigue and low cortisol are intrinsic evils, but I'm under the impression that cortisol is only useful conditionally. If you're high on thyroid and low on endotoxin, estrogen, serotonin, etc., then cortisol is not useful.

Maybe I'm wrong or you agree, but I thought I'd clarify.

 

[Kray]

I wouldn't say I'm totally enthusiastic about it. What I'm sure of is that it powerfully lowers cortisol. This has its pros and cons.

The pro is that there is a very good chance that it could eliminate anxiety. I know people that have taken cortisol-lowering supplements for anxiety, and it has been effective. Whenever I get anxious because of stress or a bad reaction to a supplement, Lapodin eliminates that. People here are talking about a gabaergic strategy for dealing with anxiety, and that can work too. That is how benzodiazepines work. But gabaergics have issues: tolerance, dependency, withdrawls, side effects.

The con is that cortisol has many beneficial functions. It might be unwise to lower it too much as long as there are systemic problems like hypothyroid, endotoxin, serotonin, magnesium deficiency, etc. What will happen is that you will lose the anti-inflammatory benefits of cortisol, and you may have problems with the skin, gut or joints, or some other kind of inflammatory issue. If you are on some good thyroid, then by all means, lower cortisol as much as you can tolerate without side effects, but take it easy and see if there are any side effects that pop up with small doses of Lapodin. I only tolerate 1 or 2 drops a day, or I get eczema breakouts. I used to get gut pains, hemorrhoids, and acne from lowering cortisol. Hopefully that won't return. Knock on wood.

I have taken many supplements that lower cortisol. Holy basil, silicic acid, and sodium thiosulfate. Since I have also taken supplements that raise cortisol like licorice root, I know what it's like to have high cortisol, and to have low cortisol. I know the problems with both ends. Obviously Lapodin is the Peatiest of the cortisol-lowering substances, and it's always best to have low cortisol. But if there are side effects, there may be other systemic issues to deal with first.

Also, read Haidut's Lapodin post, and read the studies that he posted, at least the titles. It will give you an idea of the broad range of benefits that it has. Quinones 4 lyfe!

Pointless: Thank you for the feedback, very helpful! And I will go back and re-read Haidut's initial postings.

I have had a recent outbreak of eczema for the past month, probably timed to when I began both Kuinone and Lapodin. Other supplements- aspirin 325mg 3-4 per week. How do you keep the cortisol balanced and avoid eczema? I'd really appreciate some help here. Also wondering if all the supplements I'm taking with DMSO could be contributory to eczema, as an allergic/sensitivity reaction? (I take about 12 drops a day of supplements with DMSO-- either Progestene or Pansterone, and Kuinone and Lapodin.)

I've read from the discussions that Lapodin doesn't necessarily replace cascara supplements for regularity, but maybe I haven't been taking it long enough to know for sure if it will help in this regard. What is the most beneficial effects you have experienced with Lapodin?

I appreciate your insights and feedback.