Why Is Phenibut So Amazing?

[CoolTweetPete]

Lowering cortisol helps a lot with anxiety. I would try Lapodin or cascara Sagrada if you don't do DMSO.

I've used most (probably all) of the IdeaLabs supplements in the past but I started Lapodin for the first time last week. I definitely sense less brain fog, and more motivation. Plus it seems I lost some of my Cypro weight!

 

[Pointless]

Pointless: Thank you for the feedback, very helpful! And I will go back and re-read Haidut's initial postings.

I have had a recent outbreak of eczema for the past month, probably timed to when I began both Kuinone and Lapodin. Other supplements- aspirin 325mg 3-4 per week. How do you keep the cortisol balanced and avoid eczema? I'd really appreciate some help here. Also wondering if all the supplements I'm taking with DMSO could be contributory to eczema, as an allergic/sensitivity reaction? (I take about 12 drops a day of supplements with DMSO-- either Progestene or Pansterone, and Kuinone and Lapodin.)

I've read from the discussions that Lapodin doesn't necessarily replace cascara supplements for regularity, but maybe I haven't been taking it long enough to know for sure if it will help in this regard. What is the most beneficial effects you have experienced with Lapodin?

I appreciate your insights and feedback.

I get eczema from Lapodin also. 20 drops of tyromax doesn't seem to affect it, as long as I don't put it on the affected skin, so I don't think it's DMSO.

Like I said in my other posts, if you can't handle lower cortisol, improve thyroid function and deal with serotonin, estrogen, endotoxin, etc. I can't offer much more than this because I'm still building up my tolerance. Thyroid helps the most for me.

 

[Kray]

Hmmm. Wonder what it is about Lapodin that causes eczema? But I appreciate your thoughts on DMSO. I'd hate to have to stop supps for that reason.

After reading your post, I checked out TyroMix-- you don't mean that one do you? I've never taken thyroid, so I'm not sure about it, or which one (of the Tyros) I might be best to try. It sounds quite good. When you mentioned "thyroid helps the most"-- did you mean the Tyro or some other?

 

[rmgwm]

Probably has been said in this thread but I would be very careful with Phenibut. You build a tolerance quickly and the comedown can be pretty bad. It took me a long time to realize that Phenibut was affecting me negatively even a week after a single dose was taken.

 

[cyclops]

Phenibut is the greatest lol. Seriously, does anything else compare?

 

[ddjd]

Phenibut is pretty strong stuff and very easy get withdrawals from if not limited to once a week or so.

if it is once a week, at what dose maximum?

 

[ddjd]

It's literally GABA with a phenyl group...

what does ray say about it. nay or ray?

 

[ddjd]

Phenibut works largely through being a calcium channel blocker which I believe is the main mechanism of its anti-excitation effects- not GABA so much. From what I understand endotoxin is a large cause of calcium influx into cells and excitation. Indeed phenibut has been shown in studies to protect against endotoxin and immunosuppression.

"Subsequent research has found that phenibut also binds to and potently blocks α2δ subunit-containing voltage-gated calcium channels (VGCCs), similarly to gabapentin andpregabalin.[9][10] Both enantiomers of phenibut show this action with similar efficacy.[9] Moreover, the R-enantiomer possesses five-fold greater affinity for this site relative to the GABAB receptor, while the S-enantiomer does not bind to the GABAB receptor at all.[9] As such, phenibut is likely to have much greater effect on α2δ subunit-containing VGCCs than on the GABAB receptor.[9] Notably, the antinociceptive effects of phenibut in rodents are mediated not by the GABAB receptor but by blockade of α2δ subunit-containing VGCCs."

[Immune-regulating effect of phenibut under lipopolysaccharide-induced immune stress conditions]. - PubMed - NCBI
"It is found that phenibut (under intraabdominal injection of 25 mg/kg within 5 days) removes the manifestations of hyperreactivity of the cellular link of immunity, and also restores the amount of phagocytic cells, which is evidence of the immunomodulating properties of the drug under conditions of hyperimmunization."

Comparative study of immunocorrective activity of phenibut and its organic salts in experimental immunodeficiency. - PubMed - NCBI
"Phenibut and its derivatives normalized cellular (index of delayed-type hypersensitivity reaction) and humoral (antierythrocyte antibody titer) immunity and the lymphoproliferative processes in immunocompetent organs of animals with cyclophosphamide-induced immunosuppression. This indicates pronounced immunocorrective effects of these substances."

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I think glycine has some similarities to phenibut and it also blocks endotoxic calcium influx and excitation in a dose dependent manner. Furthermore anything that lowers endotoxin and TNF will be of great value. For this I think avoiding carageenan and other foods that irritate the gut is most important. Also Rays carrot salad recipe is crucial- 1x per day at least but maybe more. Well cooked mushrooms are also beneficial for gut health.

Production of superoxide and TNF-alpha from alveolar macrophages is blunted by glycine. - PubMed - NCBI
The ability of glycine to prevent endotoxin [lipopolysaccharide (LPS)]-induced increases in [Ca(2+)](i) and subsequent production of superoxide and TNF-alpha in alveolar macrophages was examined. LPS caused a transient increase in intracellular calcium to nearly 200 nM, with EC(50) values slightly greater than 25 ng/ml. Glycine, in a dose-dependent manner, blunted the increase in [Ca(2+)](i), with an IC(50) less than 100 microM.

“TNF is produced by endotoxin, and estrogen increases the amount of endotoxin in the blood. Even without endotoxin, though, estrogen can stimulate the production of TNF. Lactic acid and unsaturated fats and hypoxia can stimulate increased formation of TNF. Estrogen increases production of nitric oxide systemically, and nitric oxide can stimulate TNF formation. How does TNF work, to produce tissue damage and wasting? It causes cells to take up too much calcium, which makes them hypermetabolic before it kills them. It increases formation of nitric oxide and carbon monoxide, blocking respiration. TNF can cause a 19.5 fold increased in the enzyme which produces carbon monoxide (Rizzardini, et al., 1993), which blocks respiration.” -Ray Peat

The varied antiinflammatory and protective effects of glycine can be thought of as an antiserotonin action. For example, serotonin increases the formation of TNF (tumor necrosis factor, also called cachectin), glycine inhibits it. In some situations, glycine is known to suppress the formation of serotonin. Antagonists of serotonin can potentiate glycine's effects (Chesnoy-Marchais, et al., 2000). People who ate traditional diets, besides getting a lower concentration of tryptophan, were getting a large amount of glycine in their gelatin-rich diet.
Gelatin, besides being a good source of glycine, also contains a large amount of proline, which has some antiexcitatory properties similar to glycine. -Ray Peat

I have experimented extensively with phenibut by the way. It's great for once in a while but not a long term solution.

So maybe try:

More carrot salad
More cooked mushrooms
More gelatin or glycine or gelatinous cuts of meat
More liver (fat soluble vitamins lower estrogen which lowers TNF)

i notice zero effects from Phenibut if i take it in the day, maybe im slightly more relaxed, but barely anything noticable.
BUT, if i take it before bed, I wake up feeling absolutely amazing, like its the best sleep ive had in years, and all day i just feel like ive actually rested and slept so well.

How does it do this?

 

[smith]

It took me a long time to realize that Phenibut was affecting me negatively even a week after a single dose was taken.

How exactly was it affecting you negatively? I'll look out for it next time...

But to all the accounts of Phenibut addiction, I cannot relate at all. Maybe because it tastes like battery acid.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Pointless Any way to lower cortisol (for anxiety) that makes you energetic at the same time?

 

[Pointless]

@Pointless Any way to lower cortisol (for anxiety) that makes you energetic at the same time?

Not that I've seen. If I was energized by something, I'd wonder if my cortisol was really being lowered. And since I don't have blood tests to back it up, I can't say for sure.