Why Is Peat A Fan Of Milk With All The Unhealthy Opioids In It?

[boris]

@Hgreen56 He drinks standard pasteurized store brand.

Did you try different brands? Some people do better on UHT milk.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

low thyroid dumps sodium so people with low thyroid needs higher intake.

I researched that claim of Peat, and it seem like a meager 33% loss or lowered retention. So instead of 1000mg of sodium, around 1300mg of it?

 

[schultz]

funny picture.
but this small amount in milk is apparently enough to lower testosterone and increase estrogen in men/humans.
Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows - PubMed

I read the paper and there is a lot to unpack with this study. I may sit down later and layout my criticizms and we can decide whether they are valid or relevant. But I will mention that there were no control groups. For the male group the study shows that when you have not eaten, and then you eat, your blood hormones are affected. It would have been nice if they had another group that also consumed some food that wasn't milk to see if their hormones changed as well.

I am reminded of a forum member who was sad that his testosterone blood levels came back low but then he admitted he had been drinking heavily the night before the test. Indeed these things can affect the test, as can eating.

S-testosterone decrease after a mixed meal in healthy men independent of SHBG and gonadotrophin levels - PubMed
"We found no change in S-LH or S-SHBG but a decline of S-T of 30% from 60 to 120 min after food intake compared to samples taken in the fasting state. This decline may give false low S-T values and overestimate the number of men with suspected hypogonadism."


So the estrogen study may just show that eating has an effect on serum hormones, whether it's milk or some other food.

I think the greater question is: what is happening when the blood levels of hormones are changing and what does it mean biologically? Hormones are not doing anything productive in the blood (except being transported), so why does this level matter? Presumably it indicates that a person has high activity of that hormone, or at least that is what we commonly assume, or that large amounts of the hormone are being removed (they are in the blood being transported to the liver to be prepped for removal) So if the level changes quickly, does that mean that the hormone is being removed from the body and deactivated? What if the hormone is being taken up by tissues? These are things to consider. Estrogen might be thought of in a different way in some contexts. Since it is aromatized in tissues, the level of it in the blood can sometimes indicate that certain amounts of it are being removed from tissues. This is meaningful in post-menopausal women who have low levels of blood estrogen but high levels of tissue estrogen.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I read the paper and there is a lot to unpack with this study. I may sit down later and layout my criticizms and we can decide whether they are valid or relevant. But I will mention that there were no control groups. For the male group the study shows that when you have not eaten, and then you eat, your blood hormones are affected. It would have been nice if they had another group that also consumed some food that wasn't milk to see if their hormones changed as well.

I am reminded of a forum member who was sad that his testosterone blood levels came back low but then he admitted he had been drinking heavily the night before the test. Indeed these things can affect the test, as can eating.

S-testosterone decrease after a mixed meal in healthy men independent of SHBG and gonadotrophin levels - PubMed
"We found no change in S-LH or S-SHBG but a decline of S-T of 30% from 60 to 120 min after food intake compared to samples taken in the fasting state. This decline may give false low S-T values and overestimate the number of men with suspected hypogonadism."


So the estrogen study may just show that eating has an effect on serum hormones, whether it's milk or some other food.

I think the greater question is: what is happening when the blood levels of hormones are changing and what does it mean biologically? Hormones are not doing anything productive in the blood (except being transported), so why does this level matter? Presumably it indicates that a person has high activity of that hormone, or at least that is what we commonly assume, or that large amounts of the hormone are being removed (they are in the blood being transported to the liver to be prepped for removal) So if the level changes quickly, does that mean that the hormone is being removed from the body and deactivated? What if the hormone is being taken up by tissues? These are things to consider. Estrogen might be thought of in a different way in some contexts. Since it is aromatized in tissues, the level of it in the blood can sometimes indicate that certain amounts of it are being removed from tissues. This is meaningful in post-menopausal women who have low levels of blood estrogen but high levels of tissue estrogen.

Good thinking. I myself aint a big fan of the big milk, but the Serum reduction of Hormones is indeed a shared effect with consumption of Food in general. Maybe the tissue resistance is lowered when anabolic Food is consumed and the T is simply going into tissues to ligand its receptors?

 

[YourUniverse]

Even the Cow is giving low Sodium beverages, why do we need so much Salt.

What does that mean. Cows themselves use salt licks to their hearts content. I only know I feel weird from liquids without enough salt

 

[Vegancrossfit]

funny picture.
but this small amount in milk is apparently enough to lower testosterone and increase estrogen in men/humans.
Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows - PubMed

not specific to milk

 

[Hgreen56]

i am going a little offtopic here but i did some digging with the hope find more positive study's about milk on humans hormones.
But they are hard to find..

ok 1 have find one but i am skeptical because they testes on mice
- Consumption of natural estrogens in cow's milk does not affect blood levels or reproductive health
(on mice)
Consumption of natural estrogens in cow's milk does not affect blood levels or reproductive health
“consumption of milk from a pregnant cow did not raise plasma levels of E1 and E2 in mice. It also did not affect the weight of the sex organs examined in either male or female mice. however, investigators did find that when the concentration was raised to 100 ng/mL, effects were seen in the mice. "We did observe elevated plasma estrogens in both sexes, increased uterus weight in females, and decreased plasma testosterone levels in males from the group that received milk with an added 100 ng/mL of E1 and E2, but t would be extremely unlikely to find such concentrations in native cow milk”
“"Our results suggest that estrogens in milk, even when derived from cows in the third trimester of pregnancy, do not pose a risk to reproductive health," concluded Dr. Majdic. "Even estrogens at concentrations 100 times higher than usually found in native milk did not cause any physiological effects in the present study. ON MICE”


some other things i found but are not positive.

- New study associates intake of dairy milk with greater risk of breast cancer: Evidence suggests consistently drinking as little as one cup per day may increase rate of breast cancer up to 50%
“By drinking up to one cup per day, the associated risk went up to 50%, and for those drinking two to three cups per day, the risk increased further to 70% to 80%.”

- High milk intake linked with higher fractures and mortality, research suggests
“They conclude that a higher consumption of milk in women and men is not accompanied by a lower risk of fracture and instead may be associated with a higher rate of death.
This may be explained by the high levels of lactose and galactose (types of sugar) in milk, that have been shown to increase oxidative stress and chronic inflammation in animal studies, say the researchers. “

- How Bacteria In Cows' Milk May Cause Crohn's Disease

 

[Hgreen56]

I am reminded of a forum member who was sad that his testosterone blood levels came back low but then he admitted he had been drinking heavily the night before the test.

you mean alcohol?

good thinking about testosterone decrease after a mixed meal in healthy men thing btw

 

[Jessie]

Critics blame Dr Peat for advocating milk as healthy while pointing out the unhealthy aspects of it, but Dr Peat drinks tons of milk and is doing better than most in his age group.

Yeah, and Peat even had several complications with his health when he was younger. The fact he corrected his health in his later years is even more impressive, considering for most people its usually all downhill the older you get. I'm not in the slightest convinced by most of the anti-dairy science out here.

If you have lactose intolerance or maybe whey/casein intolerence you should probably not drink it, obviously. But that missing calcium needs to be made up for elsewhere in the diet.

I think one of Peat's more genius views is the calcium/phosphate ratio. When people neglect their calcium and eat too much phosphorus, they always age prematurely and get inflammatory conditions.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

What does that mean. Cows themselves use salt licks to their hearts content. I only know I feel weird from liquids without enough salt

How high is their intake of salt? Is it natural or to make them fatter/waterlogged? Do the Babycows also consuming from it?

 

[baccheion]

Yeah, and Peat even had several complications with his health when he was younger. The fact he corrected his health in his later years is even more impressive, considering for most people its usually all downhill the older you get. I'm not in the slightest convinced by most of the anti-dairy science out here.

If you have lactose intolerance or maybe whey/casein intolerence you should probably not drink it, obviously. But that missing calcium needs to be made up for elsewhere in the diet.

I think one of Peat's more genius views is the calcium/phosphate ratio. When people neglect their calcium and eat too much phosphorus, they always age prematurely and get inflammatory conditions.

Phosphorus can also be balanced with magnesium. In fact, more phosphorus increases demand for magnesium in plants. Nitrogen has the same effect. That is, more meat = more magnesium.

Ancestral eating seemed to have the same amount of sodium, magnesium, phosphorus (1.5-2g); 1/3rd-1/2 as much calcium, and 7x as much potassium.

Magnesium also lowers aldosterone, PTH, etc. Magnesium also increases IGF-1. Magnesium also is released to unroll inflammation. Magnesium also opposes oxidative/peroxidative stress. Etc.

I wonder why the shift to calcium, though I do notice high calcium:magnesium in baby food (milk, egg yolks, etc).

 

[Jessie]

Phosphorus can also be balanced with magnesium. In fact, more phosphorus increases demand for magnesium in plants. Nitrogen has the same effect. That is, more meat = more magnesium.

Ancestral eating seemed to have the same amount of sodium, magnesium, phosphorus (1.5-2g); 1/3rd-1/2 as much calcium, and 7x as much potassium.

Magnesium also lowers aldosterone, PTH, etc. Magnesium also increases IGF-1. Magnesium also is released to unroll inflammation. Magnesium also opposes oxidative/peroxidative stress. Etc.

I wonder why the shift to calcium, though I do notice high calcium:magnesium in baby food (milk, egg yolks, etc).

I think Peat references the Maasai a lot in regards to this. Citing many of them get as much as 5,000mgs of calcium a day, and they live really long lives comparatively speaking to other tribes in the same general region.

But getting more magnesium will likely increase the retention of calcium as well. Personally I don't really likely resorting to the "what did our ancestors do?" argument, but it is true many of them had decent health (albeit some exceptions, like the Inuit which was riddle with heart disease). Many ancestral communities probably drinked boiled greens, which is also a good source of calcium/magnesium.

 

[YourUniverse]

How high is their intake of salt? Is it natural or to make them fatter/waterlogged? Do the Babycows also consuming from it?

I think wild animals have a taste for minerals and have a sensitive meter for consumption, they lick rocks until satisfied. I'm not sure how much it ends up being

 

[baccheion]

I think Peat references the Maasai a lot in regards to this. Citing many of them get as much as 5,000mgs of calcium a day, and they live really long lives comparatively speaking to other tribes in the same general region.

But getting more magnesium will likely increase the retention of calcium as well. Personally I don't really likely resorting to the "what did our ancestors do?" argument, but it is true many of them had decent health (albeit some exceptions, like the Inuit which was riddle with heart disease). Many ancestral communities probably drinked boiled greens, which is also a good source of calcium/magnesium.

I'm saying getting more magnesium than phosphorus is likely as sufficient as getting more calcium.

 

[Jessie]

I'm saying getting more magnesium than phosphorus is likely as sufficient as getting more calcium.

I agree, that's makes sense from a biological perspective. Magnesium is able to reduce aldosterone, so the retention of calcium is probably much better.

 

[baccheion]

I agree, that's makes sense from a biological perspective. Magnesium is able to reduce aldosterone, so the retention of calcium is probably much better.

What are the reasons for higher calcium? Magnesium addresses PTH, serum pH (with help of higher potassium), IGF-1, aldosterone, thyroid, cortisol, nitrogen, etc. It seems anything else can be addressed by raising serum vitamin D 25(OH)D.

Why does higher phosphorus (without calcium) cause issues? Is it mainly due to lowering serum pH?

 

[Inaut]

@baccheion how do you get your magnesium? Daily dosage?

 

[Jessie]

What are the reasons for higher calcium? Magnesium addresses PTH, serum pH (with help of higher potassium), IGF-1, aldosterone, thyroid, cortisol, nitrogen, etc. It seems anything else can be addressed by raising serum vitamin D 25(OH)D.

Why does higher phosphorus (without calcium) cause issues? Is it mainly due to lowering serum pH?

I think it has something to do with soft tissue calcification. When you get too much phosphorus, it increases the amount of calcium in the blood (which is bad). Essentially we end up getting "enough" calcium regardless. However, if we're not eating it, we will leach it out of our skeletal tissue.

 

[baccheion]

I think it has something to do with soft tissue calcification. When you get too much phosphorus, it increases the amount of calcium in the blood (which is bad). Essentially we end up getting "enough" calcium regardless. However, if we're not eating it, we will leach it out of our skeletal tissue.

How is it increasing calcium and for what reasons? Are they addressed when it is replaced with magnesium?

 

[Jessie]

How is it increasing calcium and for what reasons?

Parathyroid hormone I think.

Are they addressed when it is replaced with magnesium?

Yeah I think so, because mag acts as a suppressant of PTH. However it's unclear how much magnesium would be needed, especially in the context of high phosphate and low calcium.

I think it's easier to focus on calcium because we can obtain that 2,000-2,500mgs zone through diet a lot easier than we can get even 1,000mgs of magnesium through diet.