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Why Is It So Easy For Teeth To Become Yellow, But So Hard For Them To Become White?

James b

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Is there any serious harm in this?
Great question, I also want to know this. I love the look after the hydrogen peroxide, but I get a real sensitive feeling in my teeth after using so worried if it is safe or not?
 
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Great question, I also want to know this. I love the look after the hydrogen peroxide, but I get a real sensitive feeling in my teeth after using so worried if it is safe or not?
It's bad for the gums and i personally would not recommend getting a professional bleaching more than once, but if you are in the latter case of yellowing i mentioned then there is nothing currently available OTC that will return your teeth to a whiter shade. If anybody knows of anything preferably not anecdotal (which probably means they had trivial staining) i am all ears. There's PAP "phthalimidoperoxycaproic acid" toothpastes on the market that are supposed to be a safer option that claim they can whiten dentin internally, but the studies i've seen for it don't suggest that at all and the safety data other than the ones performed by the company selling the product are inconclusive

Apparently upping your intake of vitamin C can help reduce the sensitivity people feel from using high strength hydrogen peroxide. probably cause its an important cofactor for collagen synthesis i imagine. It would probably be a good idea to up your intake of all cofactors related to dental health e.g zinc, copper, boron, vitamin D, manganese etc
 

pushkin

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My dentist, who practises holistic dentistry, told me all about teeth whitening, please do not have it done if you can possibly can - it makes teeth more brittle by opening the pores in the enamel permanently and eventually, you will need veneers, as your teeth will be in a very bad shape. I asked to have it done with him and he said that if I did it then in about 15 years time I will need veneers, so I did a home whitening kit instead and it hurt my teeth so badly, I could only leave it on for a few minutes, I think I permanently damaged my teeth as they became more sensitive at the gum line. They did not get whiter.

My teeth have been yellow since they came through as an adult, it is not staining but thin enamel and the only thing I can do now is try to strengthen the enamel, which I hope to be doing now with Dr. Ellie's protocol, which uses fluoride, which I did not want to use initially but have been using it for two months now and the sensitivity has completely gone and although my teeth are not whiter yet, they are 'pearly' and reflect the light in a different way. It is not just about fluoride it is about adjusting the mouth's biome over time. My sinuses cleared up too through her protocol...

 

bornamachine

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the only thing I can do now is try to strengthen the enamel, which I hope to be doing now with Dr. Ellie's protocol
Careful with that Ellie protocol you can read my experience from my replies on other thread I don't want to retype it but think twice before using closys


About whitening, you can whiten your teeth easy, just get any toothpaste that uses soda as the scrubbing compound, of course after a while youll realize that the the pearly whites are getting sensitive because you are taking so much enamel off! Once in a while may be on, idk

Also if you have teeth mineralization issues look into phytic phytate in diet especially oats, can cause issues
 

pushkin

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Careful with that Ellie protocol you can read my experience from my replies on other thread I don't want to retype it but think twice before using closys
can you give me a brief summary here pls, I can only find three posts that you made on the other thread but they dont mention what happened to you? I use Ultradex instead of Closys as I am in Europe. I started using Ultradex before I received the other products and it cleared my sinuses up after a couple of days of use. I have been suffering with sinus problems for +30 years.

I do not brush my teeth now, only my gums, I place the toothpaste on my teeth instead then just swish around, I think that maybe one of the reasons they are no longer sensitive.

and yes, thank you for mentioning phytic acid, I have been aware of that for a while now.
 
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bornamachine

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can you give me a brief summary here pls, I
can you give me a brief summary here pls
From what I recall closys is basically household bleach in makeup and was originally given to people with bad gingivitis, gingivitis is basically a bunch of flesh eating or "gum eating" bacteria that are eating your gums away and can't be stopped, closys wipes them all out, in fact ita so powerful theoretically it should wipe everything out, not according to Ellie, I emailed her to explain how closys can wipe only the bad guys out but not the good ones since she says she uses it but boasts the most bio diverse mouth biome on planet earth, no reply from her. From my horrible experience with closys, it caused my teeth to feel like they are moving in sockets all day, breath like a dirty mop all day for couple weeks, this is from several uses, killed all biome not "just the bad bugs" and left me with a cavity first in a decade? I would not touch closys again, that's my experience


I use spry toothpaste and Plotkas manual tooth brushes and have zero known recent oral issues besides what trouble closys caused. These brushes don't recede gums from my experience. My children 2,4,6 have no cavities on this regiment also on diet free of liquid oils but not restricted in anything else that might have pufa such as bread or nuts or "oily" fish etc

I don't think brushing your teeth gently with a good brush like plotka or similar using hydrated silica toothpaste such as spry or others will cause teeth sensitivity because it's like brushing a large stone with a bunch of chalk pieces, the chalk is less abrasive then the rocks, same with teeth, silica less abrasive than the enamel

Also, to rule out toothbrush causing sensitivity, do an experiment, brush with water only, I do that sometimes, you'll find you can do much cleaner brushing as well because you can constantly check all teeth with your tongue to narrow in on the plaque, I do that sometimes and then follow up with Spry for a quick sec.
 
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I've always had pretty nice teeth, but after eating a lot of chocolate and drinking coffee, I've noticed they've become more yellow than I would have liked. I'm pretty good with my oral hygiene, and rinse my mouth out with water after eating.

I've become kind of depressed because there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to whiten teeth naturally without damaging them in some way :(
Oil pulling with coconut oil works wonders for me.
 

863127

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Drinking about a pint or more a day of raw cream has made my teeth whiter each time I do that (irregularly). Maybe because of something in it other than the vitamin K2, or complementary with K2? I haven't tried K2 in MCT oil rubbed on to compare. In another thread about teeth someone mentioned brushing with white kaolin clay in coconut oil, because that kind of clay is a good absorbent and not much abrasive. I tried it and if I brush gently it feels not too abrasive and does remove recent stains well and is also slowly making the normal just-brushed color whiter. I forget the thread but saved these links that were posted there:


Relative dentin abrasivity index
 
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All clays are abrasive. If you was looking for a clay to remove bacteria then zeolite would make more sense. I wouldn't make that a regular thing though as it is akin to exfoliating, but for teeth, and i doubt that zeolite or any clay for that matter has much effect on the biofilm in the mouth(keyword)

All yellowing of teeth is not created equal. As i pointed out, most of what is being suggested here is for extrinsic staining which is trivial, but the staining you get from stuff like being a longterm smoker, or leaving plaque on your teeth for too long In the longterm, being generally genetically unfortunate in having not much density to your tooth enamel is intrinsic staining. Coconut oil, clay, any other abrasive does nothing for the latter. The reason coconut oil is probably making some peoples teeth seem whiter is it reduces the adherence of soft plaque(keyword) to teeth from the lauric acid most likely, but coconut oil will not and cannot remove intrinsic staining nor will it do anything for gingivitis. That is oxidative stress of the dental pulp itself. There is a species of seaweed that is given to pets that does a similar thing to what coconut oil does and works just as well for humans, just via a different mechanism.

Coconut oil does not "pull"anything from anywhere as lauric acid is not a strong enough antibacterial to break up the complex biofilms that cause calculus and tartar(hard plaque)formulation..you need stuff like Oregano Oil, Neem Oil etc and none of these are something i would mess about with for too long as you will likely just nuke your entire oral biome, but it would make a lot more sense to pull with these than coconut oil. I am not even sure how or why coconut oil became THE oil to pull with as people who practice Ayurvedic "medicine" in India pull with a mix a of sesame seed oil and neem

If i remember correctly, the reason why locally applied hydrogen peroxide gel trays work is it reverses what caused the discolouration in the first place. which is a type of oxidative stress, which may also explain why oregano oil is pretty potent in killing oral biofilms(and your biome with it)since it's such a strong antioxidant
 
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pushkin

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From what I recall closys is basically household bleach in makeup and was originally given to people with bad gingivitis, gingivitis is basically a bunch of flesh eating or "gum eating" bacteria that are eating your gums away and can't be stopped, closys wipes them all out, in fact ita so powerful theoretically it should wipe everything out, not according to Ellie, I emailed her to explain how closys can wipe only the bad guys out but not the good ones since she says she uses it but boasts the most bio diverse mouth biome on planet earth, no reply from her. From my horrible experience with closys, it caused my teeth to feel like they are moving in sockets all day, breath like a dirty mop all day for couple weeks, this is from several uses, killed all biome not "just the bad bugs" and left me with a cavity first in a decade? I would not touch closys again, that's my experience


I use spry toothpaste and Plotkas manual tooth brushes and have zero known recent oral issues besides what trouble closys caused. These brushes don't recede gums from my experience. My children 2,4,6 have no cavities on this regiment also on diet free of liquid oils but not restricted in anything else that might have pufa such as bread or nuts or "oily" fish etc

I don't think brushing your teeth gently with a good brush like plotka or similar using hydrated silica toothpaste such as spry or others will cause teeth sensitivity because it's like brushing a large stone with a bunch of chalk pieces, the chalk is less abrasive then the rocks, same with teeth, silica less abrasive than the enamel

Also, to rule out toothbrush causing sensitivity, do an experiment, brush with water only, I do that sometimes, you'll find you can do much cleaner brushing as well because you can constantly check all teeth with your tongue to narrow in on the plaque, I do that sometimes and then follow up with Spry for a quick sec.

I am so sorry you had this experience - I have read that Closys is the equivalent of MMS - chlorine dioxide and is not the same as household bleach (you can read on the label). It is the stuff that has been undergoing tests against covid recently: Chlorine dioxide is a more potent antiviral agent against SARS-CoV-2 than sodium hypochlorite - PubMed I use MMS for other things (coldsores etc.) and it is wonderful, I have no idea whether it wipes all the bacteria out completely but it certainly helped my gums and my sinuses. My teeth were in a bad way, I could not eat on one side of my mouth as it was too painful to bite down on one tooth and now, after 60 days of Ellie's protocol, I can eat absolutely fine on that tooth. I have no sensitivity any more and my mouth feels absolutely great. I think the xylitol is actually an amazing thing to use too - 100% natural!

I do not brush my teeth any more, just the gums, so the abrasion issue does not apply and I don't feel the need to check for plaque with my tongue as there is none - as I am sure you know, Ellie says that you cannot remove all the bacteria by brushing anyway and swishing with the closys/listerine/fluoridgard gets into every nook and cranny. I certainly feel like my teeth are the cleanness they've ever been. As I said before, they are not any whiter yet, but I am going to just keep doing Ellie's and hope that my teeth are slowly remineralising, I have one small piece of brown at the gum line that I know is decay and that has started to turn white again, so I believe and hope that the remineralisation is already starting to happen.

I have two daughters 20 and 16 years old and they have never had any cavities, they brush their teeth with normal toothbrushes morning and night with regular toothpaste and have a normal teenage diet.
 
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Remineralising just means that the dental tubules that are causing sensitivity and ingress of bacteria get filled in. It doesn't mean that you can get back enamel density that you have lost to biofilm formations. That's gone for good

I have wondered though if you used a really small particle size mineral concoction if you could cause the enamel you have left to take that on causing it to eventually add density to your teeth again. That is what a hydroxyapatite is afterall but i think a lot of the toothpastes miss a trick by only providing calcium hydroxyapatite, or some other mineral on its lonesome(zinc often). It would make more sense to brush or swish with a hydroxyapatite that contained calcium and all bone formation cofactors in a small enough particle size, but i haven't seen anything like that available.

There is also the possibility that something like BPC-157 could work in a toothpaste or as a mouthwash, or preferably in a gel form so it has longer adherence. Not looked into peptides a whole lot as most of them require a chemists license, but there are a few studies active currently that have regrew teeth with peptides derived from certain types of fish and sea creatures in general
 
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oil pulling
Coconut oil is a great bacterial killer and can get in crevices that just brushing can't. As far as whitening goes, the oil loosens the stains so a light brushing can do the rest. When my teeth are sensitive just 5 minutes of swishing with coconut oil makes it go away. I know the feet are a good place for pulling out toxins, with foot soaks, so maybe with the head being the opposite end is has the same effect?
 
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Coconut oil is a great bacterial killer and can get in crevices that just brushing can't. As far as whitening goes, the oil loosens the stains so a light brushing can do the rest. When my teeth are sensitive just 5 minutes of swishing with coconut oil makes it go away. I know the feet are a good place for pulling out toxins, with foot soaks, so maybe with the head being the opposite end is has the same effect?
Coconut oil is only a good antibacterial when it can make monolaurin and you can only produce that by ingesting the medium chain triglycerides, not swishing them around in your gob. Coconut oil is pretty ineffective against oral biofilms in both studies and IME. Even the study that compared coconut oil with chlorhexidine didn't use actual coconut oil. it used synthetically made MCT oil high in monolaurin as an analog to coconut oil which is a bit misleading.

Yeah, maybe it's effective against soft plaque(you'd get a better result from flossing though), but coconut oil wont kill the biofilms that cause intrinsic tooth staining or the biofilms that cause gingivitis and periodontitis, like oregano and neem can meaning as an antibacterial in a regimen to address oral biofilms, it's very overrated. I'd consider soft plaque pretty trivial an issue as well as far as oral health is concerned. From what the OP was describing it seemed more likely he was dealing with intrinsic staining
 
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Coconut oil is only a good antibacterial when it can make monolaurin and you can only produce that by ingesting the medium chain triglycerides, not swishing them around in your gob. Coconut oil is pretty ineffective against oral biofilms in both studies and IME. Even the study that compared coconut oil with chlorhexidine didn't use actual coconut oil. it used synthetically made MCT oil high in monolaurin as an analog to coconut oil which is a bit misleading.

Yeah, maybe it's effective against soft plaque(you'd get a better result from flossing though), but coconut oil wont kill the biofilms that cause intrinsic tooth staining or the biofilms that cause gingivitis and periodontitis, like oregano and neem can meaning as an antibacterial in a regimen to address oral biofilms, it's very overrated. I'd consider soft plaque pretty trivial an issue as well as far as oral health is concerned. From what the OP was describing it seemed more likely he was dealing with intrinsic staining
I have been doing it for 7+ years and it is the best for me and my family. I don't use toothpaste at all.
 

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Metabawlic

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Bunch of people in here telling you coconut oil doesn't whiten due to various reasons yet everyone I know who's used it routinely enjoys better dental health and whiter teeth...

It's very inexpensive to try it out yourself.

If you need to remineralize, drink milk for minerals and eat liver for Vitamin K.
 

Vajra

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I am surprised more people haven’t complained about this here, since I think a diet high in sugar and coffee would cause this problem in most of its followers.
There's been plenty of complaints I'm sure, but it is indeed perplexing the lack of any general consensus considering it is sort of an elephant in the room. Coconut oil pulling has been mentioned a lot.
My gut instict is that gut health and optimizing the saliva is probably the most important component as opposed to local things and potentially more important than high sugar or not
 
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Bunch of people in here telling you coconut oil doesn't whiten due to various reasons yet everyone I know who's used it routinely enjoys better dental health and whiter teeth...

It's very inexpensive to try it out yourself.

If you need to remineralize, drink milk for minerals and eat liver for Vitamin K.
Exactly! Maybe some people's teeth are too stained, and they don't see the positive effects soon enough and get discouraged. I know a couple people who recently took my advice to oil pull for tooth pain, one was on this forum, and they say it worked great for relieving their pain.
 
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I have tried it for myself. I haven't said that it can't whiten teeth. I have said multiple times now that i can accept the fact it can remove extrinsic staining(so what though, a lot of things can address extrinsic staining just as well as coconut oil) but it doesn't do anything for intrinsic staining, which is the more difficult to address if this happens to be the reason your teeth have become discoloured.



If you don't have the enzymes to break down those minerals from food then those are moot suggestions and i am assuming not everybody here has absolutely perfect digestion. if you can't break down the minerals to a small enough particle size from say too low stomach acid as one example, absence of certain digestive enzymes/ lack of quantity or diversity as another, then they wont go into teeth or into the oral cavity. K2 is a cofactor in bone development and has been shown to open osteoblasts when superdosed(specifically MK-4 Menatetrenone) but teeth are not strictly bones or any kind of tissue that you would find anywhere else in the body hence why getting back enamel you have lost to bacterial infections in the oral cavity, abrasion, genetics is not simply accomplished by "eat more dairy and K2 m8".....

Remineralisation is more trivial a process than it sounds. It will reduce tooth sensitivity, but it wont help you grow back enamel if you have lost any no matter how much milk and foods high in K2 you intake or supplement. There is no biological pathway that allows for teeth to return to the state they once was after they have passed a certain threshold of demineralisation. The best you can do currently is halt its progression. You can't reverse it via nutritional or supplemental means, but you can superficially reverse the discolouration for a duration of a few months at the risk of potentially more damage to the enamel you have left in the longterm with dental polishings
 
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bornamachine

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There is no biological pathway that allows for teeth to return to the state they once was after they have passed a certain threshold of demineralisation. The best you can do currently is halt its progression. You can't reverse it via nutritional or supplemental means,
How do you know that?

I've heard this from all my dental assistant family members.
 

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