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Why Is High Protein A Good Thing?

Discussion in 'Protein' started by Liubo, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    ...Since we want less serotonin in us? Does not make sense but I hope one of you can clear it up. Thanks / love.
     
  2. Stryker

    Stryker Member

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    i think eating enough protein is needed to maintain healthy levels of albumin keeping tryptophan bound in the blood , another factor is the ratio of tryptophan with the other LNAA's in regards to competing with tryptophans entry into the brain.

    what i would focus on the most is keeping blood sugar stable/ avoiding PUFAS and inhibiting lipolysis as PUFAS in the bloodstream free the tryptophan from the albumin
     
  3. Jayfish

    Jayfish Member

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    I think most unwanted serotonin is created in the gut by microbes. Optimally most tryptophan is converted into niacin.

    It's best to eat protein sources that arnt super high in tryptophan but protein is needed for a multitude of reasons. Avoiding it may reduce inflammatory aminos but it will also reduce metabolism, healing, liver health, etc.

    It's best to optimize health so that your body can deal with these aminos efficiently. Taking b6, taurine, glycine, etc can help with this.
     
  4. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    If you read ray peat`s articles you would have asked that question differently. RP does goes deeper into protein and talks about animal protein/amino acids etc. Serotonin is mostly also a gut issue, so you have to take care of that first.
    Im not really sure where you get the high protein = high serotonin link but search the forum, listen to interviews and read his articles. He has answered all that much better then we can do here.
     
  5. OP
    Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Well, I did read this: Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

    He keeps pointing to a lack of tryptophan (which I'm told is in almost all protein) as a GOOD thing. Here's a quote: "On the tryptophan-poor diet, the amount of serotonin in the brain decreased." and, "The metabolic rate (eating more without gaining extra weight) and ability to regulate body temperature are increased by early tryptophan deprivation. (Ashley and Curzon, 1981; Segall and Timiras, 1975.) ". Peat says that not only does "An excess of tryptophan early in life, stress, or malnutrition, activates the system for converting tryptophan into serotonin," but, "When rats were fed a diet completely lacking tryptophan for a short period, or a diet containing only one fourth of the “normal” amount for a more prolonged period, the results were surprising: They kept the ability to reproduce up to the age of 36 months (versus 17 months for the rats on the usual diet), and both their average longevity and their maximum longevity increased significantly. They looked and acted like younger rats."

    And he says, "In some situations, glycine is known to suppress the formation of serotonin." (bold is mine.)

    So this still does not seem to give free rein to protein intake, nor vouch that glycine will cause all that tryptophan to not turn into serotonin.
     
  6. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    all the protein he recommends are low in tryptophan and when you eat foods that will lower stress(sugar) and prove you with enough good vitamins and minerals the little tryptophan you eat will not be turned into serotonin.

    There is alot more to the picture then just tryptophan and that article when it comes to serotonin.
     
  7. PeatMonster

    PeatMonster Member

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    As with many things, the ratio is more important than the absolute amount. Almost all whole protein sources have enough of the other AAs that the net effect is serotonin deletion. With casein or gelatin the effect is stronger.
     
  8. OP
    Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Well, not milk, it's quite high in tryptophan. But he seems to like milk due to its high calcium, which he says, will take care of the tryptophan. But then why drink it in the first place if its AAs cancel each other out.

    And I do want to see the whole picture, that's why I made this thread ;) Can't help but see a good side to a low-protein diet THUS far, though!
     
  9. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    the casein is protective from the tryptophan in milk. Also milk got ALOT of important nutrients.

    Well you dont need to drink milk, if you find other sources that will provide you with enough potassium,calcium and other good protein its cool. But it sure is a hassle.

    Again RP has written about the dangers of low protein. Lower metabolic rate, higher estrogen aka higher serotonin aka higher cortisol and it just sets off a cascade of stress effects.

    All foods comes with pros and cons, the savvy eaters chooses the food with the least cons and most pros.
     
  10. OP
    Liubo

    Liubo Member

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    Makes sense. I read Multiple sclerosis, protein, fats, and progesterone that talks about low protein. Beans have no fat and they have low tryptophan, why are they not Peat?
     
  11. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    @Liubo they have bad amino acid profile in therms of usable protein. They have alot of starch and fermentable fibers. They have powerful anti-thyroid agents. They also have high PUFA content
     
  12. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    Beans aren't fat free at all, most are higher in PUFA than fruits and lowfat dairy. Beans have a protein bioavailability so low you should take whatever amount of protein they have for a given amount and cut it in half, that would give you a much more accurate number of what you are actually getting from them. They also have a garbage calcium to phosphorus ratio, difficult to digest, wreck your thyroid, and are very high in iron and potential allergens and antinutrients. If you want to get enough quality protein to sustain lean body mass, and most importantly fuel your liver with the proteins it needs your inevitability going to consume animal protein. People who eat mostly pants and get most of their protein from plants age rapidly. McDougall, klaper, etc.. They look like they are at least a decade older than they truly are, especially when you compare them to people like kummerow, my grandparents and great grandparents, Ray, etc. Just my opinion, I was high calorie vegan getting my protein from beans, lentals, rice, potatoes, wheat etc.. For over a year, it messed me up so bad, it dropped my temperature down to the 95's and I tried to kill myself. Ray has saved my life and my health, I will never eat a bean, lental, or a "high protein plant food " or even any starch ever again. Sorry for the rant. That's just my experience and my opinion, it doesn't mean anything.
     
  13. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    This study analysis really reinforces protein. LOW protein is better, EXCEPT that the effects of low protein are probably due to lower methionine and tryptophan.

    For people who are older, the study says they are better off with high protein. When they say "part of the effects" they mean "maybe all the effects" ...

     
  14. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    Except like in one of Chris Masterjohn's articles when they put animals on a low protein diet and expose animals to a realistic amount of toxins the low protein group gets cancer and complications. But the higher protein group exposed to the same level of toxins don't get cancer and stayed healthy. Most likely because the extra protein gives the liver enough fuel to detoxify hazardous things.
     
  15. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I think this study shows that restricting methionine and tryptophan may be responsible for any/all benefit of low protein, and that HIGH protein is better as long as you avoid those two aminos. That's what Ray's point of view is.
     
  16. tca300

    tca300 Member

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  17. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    thanks - yes I had forgotten. The study I cited doesn't mention that, BTW.
     
  18. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

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    I don't know about that. There's plenty of Asian cultures that rely primarily on plant protein and many of them age just fine. Trying to define diets by the appearance of a few individuals probably isn't a good idea. McDougall, for example, had a stroke when he was 18, before he became Vegan. He might have aged poorly regardless of diet. My grandfather ate mostly meat, a lot of PUFA, very little carbs or sugar, served in two wars, and (imo) looked better in his 90's than Peat does currently, but I wouldn't recommend ditching the carbs and being mainly a meat eater because of it.
     
  19. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    Vegetarians often notice temporary exhilaration when they stop eating meat, probably because their thyroid has been suppressed. But a more serious hypothyroid state often follows, from a low protein inadequate vegetarian diet. Low protein diets definitely interfere with the liver’s ability to detoxify estrogen and other stressors.”

    A few years ago, most of the nutritional problems that I saw were caused by physicians, by refined convenience foods, and by poverty. Recently, most of the problems seem to be caused by badly designed vegetarian diets, or by acceptance of the idea that 40 grams of protein per day is sufficient. The liver and other organs deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets. Observe the faces of the wheat-grass promoters, the millet-eaters, and the ‘anti-mucus’ dieters, and other low-protein people. Do they look old for their age?

    "A simple protein deficiency has many surprising effects. It lowers body temperature, and suppresses the thyroid, but it increases inflammation and the tendency of blood to clot. Since the brain and heart and lungs require a continuous supply of essential amino acids if they are to continue functioning, in the absence of dietary protein, cortisol must be produced continuously to mobilize amino acids from the expendable tissues, which are mainly the skeletal muscles."

    "When the metabolic rate is optimal, most adults who aren't completely sedentary probably should have around 130 to 150 grams. If their calorie consumption is around 3000 kcal per day, that's about 25% of the calories as protein. Great Lakes Gelatin (cooked collagen), a prothyroid protein is recommended to balance the anti-thyroid amino acids in muscle meats."

    "This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption. In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    ~Ray Peat

    Bolds are mine. Also are you Oriental? Do you regularly spend time with elderly Orientals? Or do you just see them on TV? Where the best looking are usually chosen. This is a RAY PEAT forum, specific to the ideas of Ray Peat. Perhaps everyone who disagrees shouldn't be posting here.
     
  20. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

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    I'm not Oriental, but my brother's wife is, and I see her family frequently, including her 90+ year old grandparents who still eat basically the same diet they consumed before moving here. I also have access to plenty of studies showing the Japanese seem to age pretty well compared to many 1st world countries. I never said high protein can't be advantageous, and I myself eat meat, eggs, and dairy on a daily basis so I'm not espousing Veganism either, but the idea that a diet centered around vegetarian protein causes premature aging because a few individuals look "old" seems like faulty logic. In fact, I've seen people state Peat looks bad for his age, and I've questioned their opinion as well, because I think that's a really poor way to judge the merits of a diet. Unless you have a large group of people that have eaten a particular diet for their entire lives, appearances can be deceiving.

    So because I disagreed with your opinion about vegetarians aging faster, you're telling me to get out?
     
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