Why I Think Many People Have Issues With Supplemental Vitamin D

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lampofred

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Do you have a source for this? I ask just because I vaguely remember reading the opposite - that vitamin D takes iron from the intracellular compartment and deposits it outside.

I read it on here in an @Amazoniac post. Apparently it takes out iron from your blood and puts it into organs.
 

Evgenij

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BUT, we are living in an unnatural world of modern toxic technology, and those natural laws may not apply.
I agree, working with nature in today's world is not easy!
It is, but the remarkable effect was normalization of diversity in the group that wasn't supplementing venom D. It's difficult to interpret for the group that was because specific changes that stood out could've been on someone who wasn't intoxicating enough (12.5 mcg/d, for example), so perhaps just increasing the dose would've led to similar results.
Yeah, maybe you're right. Too bad we don't know more.

Here's something "similar": Oral Supplementation With Probiotic L. reuteri NCIMB 30242 Increases Mean Circulating 25-Hydroxyvitamin D: A Post Hoc Analysis of a Randomized Controlled Trial
 

Kingpinguin

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Vitamin D puts iron in storage, so if you are already saturated with iron, vitamin D will increase iron toxicity.

With sunlight it's different because the light acts as a heavy metal detoxifying agent because it stimulates your metabolism, so you don't get iron toxicity.

But without sufficient vitamin D, you will overproduce lactic acid and run on fat instead of oxidizing sugar into CO2. There will be too much neurotransmitter activity and not enough GABA which will eventually lead to schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, OCD, etc. if the deficiency becomes too pronounced. The low vitamin D state is inherently unstable.

Coffee has the same iron-detoxifying effect as light, so does OJ, aspirin, blood donation, and I am starting to think small amounts of nicotine gum (without bad fillers) might have this effect too.

In short my guess is that the real issue is iron toxicity and lowering iron should increase the ability to handle vitamin D, which in turn will improve sugar use and raise GABA (and also will likely help a lot to lower weight @Cirion ).

how did you come to that conclusion? I never seen any studies showing vitamin D increases iron storage. It does increase ferritin. But thats because it powerfully suppresses hepcidin which increases dietary iron absorption which in turn results in higher iron status. Excess vitamin D supplement sure can kill liver retinol. But I’ve seen studies where vitamin D actually increased ceruloplasmin which is the main iron utilizer. Another link is that both vitamin D and iron are helpfull in treating low dopamine symptoms such as RLS, ADHD and fatigue. I believe you need both retinol and vitamin D in combination since they work in synergy. I dont believe retinol is poison A and now we have poison D? And I’m pretty certain that most people who experience bad effects of vitamin D is a too high dose. My sister is going to a specialist who cured her hashimotos, PCOS and chronic fatigue with 50 000 IU daily vit D. She did develop hyper calcemia both on blood test and symptoms. Doctor just started her on 1 gram of magnesium and it went away. So now shes doing vitamin D 50k everyday with magnesium and her thyroid status has just kept on improving. She has a TSH of 80 before now shes down to reference range. Think it was 2. In just 4 months. So IMO most the side effects of vitamin D is the strong magnesium depletion higher doses causes. Most people without a specific disorder they are treating I think 1000 IU per day is much enough. With that get some retinol and your daily 400mg magnesium and you wont have any problems.
 

Kingpinguin

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Do you have a source for this? I ask just because I vaguely remember reading the opposite - that vitamin D takes iron from the intracellular compartment and deposits it outside.

you are right. Vitamin D helps utilize iron and cellular ceruloplasmin. Theres studies on this. Both iron and vit D is known for boosting dopamine function and treat RLS and adhd. Which area of the brain is most important for dopamine synthesis? The substantia nigra. Even called black substance. Its darker than other brain areas. Why? Coz it is much more iron dense than the rest of the brain. The iron is needed for its function in dopamine synthesis. And vitamin D enhances this.

The vitamin D receptor in dopamine neurons; its presence in human substantia nigra and its ontogenesis in rat midbrain. - PubMed - NCBI


Iron, the substantia nigra and related neurological disorders. - PubMed - NCBI


Structural abnormality of the substantia nigra in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

Iron deficiency in children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. - PubMed - NCBI
 

Inaut

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how did you come to that conclusion? I never seen any studies showing vitamin D increases iron storage. It does increase ferritin. But thats because it powerfully suppresses hepcidin which increases dietary iron absorption which in turn results in higher iron status. Excess vitamin D supplement sure can kill liver retinol. But I’ve seen studies where vitamin D actually increased ceruloplasmin which is the main iron utilizer. Another link is that both vitamin D and iron are helpfull in treating low dopamine symptoms such as RLS, ADHD and fatigue. I believe you need both retinol and vitamin D in combination since they work in synergy. I dont believe retinol is poison A and now we have poison D? And I’m pretty certain that most people who experience bad effects of vitamin D is a too high dose. My sister is going to a specialist who cured her hashimotos, PCOS and chronic fatigue with 50 000 IU daily vit D. She did develop hyper calcemia both on blood test and symptoms. Doctor just started her on 1 gram of magnesium and it went away. So now shes doing vitamin D 50k everyday with magnesium and her thyroid status has just kept on improving. She has a TSH of 80 before now shes down to reference range. Think it was 2. In just 4 months. So IMO most the side effects of vitamin D is the strong magnesium depletion higher doses causes. Most people without a specific disorder they are treating I think 1000 IU per day is much enough. With that get some retinol and your daily 400mg magnesium and you wont have any problems.

good post @Kingpinguin
 

Kingpinguin

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Id go so far to say that if you are vitamin D depleted your substantia nigra likely accumulates excess iron thus resulting in parkinsons etc. The substantia nigra is very vitamin D receptor dense and im pretty sure vitamin D helps activate these receptors thus utilize iron more properly.

Role of Vitamin D in Parkinson's Disease

thats why theres a association between low vitamin D and parkinson. And also a relation between too high iron content in parkinson aswell in this area. Vitamin D actually helps to protect and help the substantia nigra to utilize iron more effectivly.
 

Amazoniac

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I read it on here in an @Amazoniac post. Apparently it takes out iron from your blood and puts it into organs.
?

I can only remember something about secondary deficiencies from supplementation, leading to impair'd mobilization if not corrected.
And the 3rd link here, but I didn't read further, should be minor and can't explain such effect.

Regarding poison/"vitamin" A, there is antagonism between them, but it will be momentarily after dosing in case of excesses. We has decent reserves and enough time in a day to correct for the imbalance, it's possible to increase the rate of conversion from circulation or mobilize more of the the one that's low while detoxifying the other faster, so it would not be my first suspicion. The opposite occurs with poisonoids as well, if you consume too much of them, there will be a period of hyperpoisonemia after the meal that tends to normalize afterwards. It's only if you're chronically low in one of them that it will linger.

I would associate what you described with using up nutrients, the temporary depletion will compromise some functions; the more severe this is, the more of what appears during repletion will has to be diverted to repair.
 
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you are right. Vitamin D helps utilize iron and cellular ceruloplasmin. Theres studies on this. Both iron and vit D is known for boosting dopamine function and treat RLS and adhd. Which area of the brain is most important for dopamine synthesis? The substantia nigra. Even called black substance. Its darker than other brain areas. Why? Coz it is much more iron dense than the rest of the brain. The iron is needed for its function in dopamine synthesis. And vitamin D enhances this.

The vitamin D receptor in dopamine neurons; its presence in human substantia nigra and its ontogenesis in rat midbrain. - PubMed - NCBI


Iron, the substantia nigra and related neurological disorders. - PubMed - NCBI


Structural abnormality of the substantia nigra in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

Iron deficiency in children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. - PubMed - NCBI

Excellent, thanks.
 

Goobz

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you are right. Vitamin D helps utilize iron and cellular ceruloplasmin. Theres studies on this. Both iron and vit D is known for boosting dopamine function and treat RLS and adhd. Which area of the brain is most important for dopamine synthesis? The substantia nigra. Even called black substance. Its darker than other brain areas. Why? Coz it is much more iron dense than the rest of the brain. The iron is needed for its function in dopamine synthesis. And vitamin D enhances this.

The vitamin D receptor in dopamine neurons; its presence in human substantia nigra and its ontogenesis in rat midbrain. - PubMed - NCBI


Iron, the substantia nigra and related neurological disorders. - PubMed - NCBI


Structural abnormality of the substantia nigra in children with attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder

Iron deficiency in children with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks, great post - makes sense with what I’ve read previously regarding vit D and PD. The magnesium and vit A stuff is good to consider too.
 

Kingpinguin

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Thanks, great post - makes sense with what I’ve read previously regarding vit D and PD. The magnesium and vit A stuff is good to consider too.

yes so many nutrients play in synergy to make the brain function optimally. Im pretty sure that the fatigue symptoms of classic ”iron deficiency” or which i like to call iron dysregulation. Is not due to lack of oxygenated blood. Its due to lack of dopamine synthesis which will lead to high prolactin, tiredness, high serotonin. Theres even studies showing iron supplements lower prolactin. But I dont think iron supplementation is needed. Dietary iron and making sure you get all the co factors for iron metabolism so the system doesnt get dysregulated. The most important nutrients for that purpose imo is copper, retinol for ceruloplasmin synthesis and proper liver funtion. Taurine seems beneficial for this aswell. Vitamin D has its role both in cellular iron and keeping hepcidin low. Magnesium is needed for transferrin to be able to bind and transport iron. Maybe magnesium and vitamin D combined is needed for transferrin to shuttle iron around the body properly. I suspect this. Some vitamin E could be beneficial is you’re struggling with iron excess combined with copper and retinol and taurine. I dont see ferritin as the best measure of iron status. It reflects stores but serum iron is much more important to tell if you’re body is handling iron like it should. Ferritin between 40-80 seems to be a good level while keeping serum iron on the higher end. Higher end serum iron reflects good iron utilization of the iron the body has. Copper has been shown several times to increase serum iron but not ferritin. Defo a correlation between copper, ceruloplasmin and serum iron. When my serum iron is at the higher end of the spectrum I feel my best with most energy. Also like to mention B-vitamins is important. They are much more linked to hemoglobin status than iron itself. Specially folate and B12
 

RWilly

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I’ve also seen reports on here from people who did high dose iodine saying it had a very negative impact on their health.

I'm in a FB iodine group, and haven't seen many success stories there. Same with high does vitamin C. When people don't experience success, the standard response seems to be 'you need to take more.' I would think that if it was helpful, people would feel a little better even with small doses.
 

Arnold Grape

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I'm in a FB iodine group, and haven't seen many success stories there. Same with high does vitamin C. When people don't experience success, the standard response seems to be 'you need to take more.' I would think that if it was helpful, people would feel a little better even with small doses.
Heh — def in the high dose c distorts copper stores bc I think it was turning my hair gray, which I’m reversing, I think
 

RWilly

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yes so many nutrients play in synergy to make the brain function optimally. Im pretty sure that the fatigue symptoms of classic ”iron deficiency” or which i like to call iron dysregulation.

On the other side of the coin, the most common symptom of iron overload in hereditary hemochromatosis is also fatigue.

Heh — def in the high dose c distorts copper stores bc I think it was turning my hair gray, which I’m reversing, I think

Yeah... I think that's a big reason why.
 

Kingpinguin

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On the other side of the coin, the most common symptom of iron overload in hereditary hemochromatosis is also fatigue.



Yeah... I think that's a big reason why.

Yes hereditary hemochromatosis is easy to diagnose with a blood test
 

Eric88

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I used to get chest pains in my left from vitamin D (I get the same when using a serotogenic thing). Why is that?
 

Bart1

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yes so many nutrients play in synergy to make the brain function optimally. Im pretty sure that the fatigue symptoms of classic ”iron deficiency” or which i like to call iron dysregulation. Is not due to lack of oxygenated blood. Its due to lack of dopamine synthesis which will lead to high prolactin, tiredness, high serotonin. Theres even studies showing iron supplements lower prolactin. But I dont think iron supplementation is needed. Dietary iron and making sure you get all the co factors for iron metabolism so the system doesnt get dysregulated. The most important nutrients for that purpose imo is copper, retinol for ceruloplasmin synthesis and proper liver funtion. Taurine seems beneficial for this aswell. Vitamin D has its role both in cellular iron and keeping hepcidin low. Magnesium is needed for transferrin to be able to bind and transport iron. Maybe magnesium and vitamin D combined is needed for transferrin to shuttle iron around the body properly. I suspect this. Some vitamin E could be beneficial is you’re struggling with iron excess combined with copper and retinol and taurine. I dont see ferritin as the best measure of iron status. It reflects stores but serum iron is much more important to tell if you’re body is handling iron like it should. Ferritin between 40-80 seems to be a good level while keeping serum iron on the higher end. Higher end serum iron reflects good iron utilization of the iron the body has. Copper has been shown several times to increase serum iron but not ferritin. Defo a correlation between copper, ceruloplasmin and serum iron. When my serum iron is at the higher end of the spectrum I feel my best with most energy. Also like to mention B-vitamins is important. They are much more linked to hemoglobin status than iron itself. Specially folate and B12
Very good information. I think your spot on with your posts.

I have difficulty raising vitamin D and seem to have iron toxicity symptoms.

I’m taking now 5000 ui vitamin A, 2000 vitamin D, 4mg K2.

I take magnesium bicarbonate. I have low D and high serum calcium so probably need to supplement a lot of magnesium, maybe also a gram.

taurine feels good and I’m using 2 grams.

i try to get copper from liver and shrimps. I’m also deficient in zinc I think. Occasionally I take a zinc/copper supplement from jarrow formula (zinc balance).

i hope this will help because I really have disturbing symptoms.

btw, we already exchanged some ideas, I have hemochromatosis.


My ceruloplasmin is on the low side 170 (range 150-300). Serum copper: 14 (range 8.8-17.4)
 

Kingpinguin

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Very good information. I think your spot on with your posts.

I have difficulty raising vitamin D and seem to have iron toxicity symptoms.

I’m taking now 5000 ui vitamin A, 2000 vitamin D, 4mg K2.

I take magnesium bicarbonate. I have low D and high serum calcium so probably need to supplement a lot of magnesium, maybe also a gram.

taurine feels good and I’m using 2 grams.

i try to get copper from liver and shrimps. I’m also deficient in zinc I think. Occasionally I take a zinc/copper supplement from jarrow formula (zinc balance).

i hope this will help because I really have disturbing symptoms.

btw, we already exchanged some ideas, I have hemochromatosis.


My ceruloplasmin is on the low side 170 (range 150-300). Serum copper: 14 (range 8.8-17.4)

After I supplemented high vitamin D or havent taken magnesium for a long while I can easily take 1 gram across the day without getting runny stools so I think thats a good sign if you are low. Imo you can double the A and D. Dunno about zinc. I can not tolerate any zinc. Are you donating blood aswell? If so you take B vitamins? It will help with hemoglobin synthesis. Like ray also says donating blood depletes other nutrients probably like copper. I took between 2-10mg copper daily for 2 months to get my ceruloplasmin from 150 to 200. Below 150 is really low. 300 is not high. Many test has upper range of 600.
 

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