Why I Regret Giving Hair Loss Advice And A Major Breakthrough

[johnwester130]

After using the product polysorbate 80, I can now say that sebum is absolutely a problem in male pattern baldness.

After rubbing it in for 30 seconds, it will already begin to loosen sebum and you will see the oil begin to turn white. That is literally the sebum being dissolved and removed from the follicle. The sebum then mixes with the oil producing a white foam on the scalp. As you do it more and more over several weeks, this foam will form much less on the scalp as the sebum gets removed.

If you are not removing the years old dead skin and sebum, no other hair growth product will work.

What this product does is remove sebum and dead skin from under the follicle.
Every shampoo and product only removes the dead skin from the top of the scalp.

Well, does it grow hair ?

In the 1980s it was used with success but never got accepted by mainstream medicine and there was some things written about it.

Even hamilton noticed eunuchs had less sebum than normal men.
"Barber (5) noted that seborrheic dermatitis is rarely seen
before the stimulation of sebaceous gland activity which begins in puberty. Women ap-
proaching or at the climacteric were found to be prone to seborrheic dermatitis, perhaps
as a result of alteration in the androgen/estrogen ratio. Hamilton (6) reported that cas-
trates and eunuchs do not develop seborrheic dermatitis, acne, or ordinary male baldness,
and that their sebaceous secretion is only one-third that of the normal male. However,
when these subjects were given testosterone, the output of sebum increased, and some
developed seborrheic dermatitis or acne."

 

[ddjd]

where do you buy this product?

 

[lampofred]

Wouldn't it be better to just fight the cause of excessive sebum production, which is a poor progesterone to estrogen ratio as opposed to adding chemicals into the mix. You'll get systemic health wide benefits in addition to fixing your hair

 

[johnwester130]

where do you buy this product?

it's available on ebay, amazon.

literally just a bottle of oil but does the opposite of what oil does

 

[johnwester130]

Wouldn't it be better to just fight the cause of excessive sebum production, which is a poor progesterone to estrogen ratio as opposed to adding chemicals into the mix. You'll get systemic health wide benefits in addition to fixing your hair

no, because you have to remove the build up of dead skin and oil.

This is the only way I have found to do it.

Even clays cannot remove sebum from under the follicle

What I like about it is it gives you an instant effect , you will literally see sebum pour out your scalp within 30 seconds.

 

[Dante]

Wouldn't it be better to just fight the cause of excessive sebum production, which is a poor progesterone to estrogen ratio

I thought estrogen atrophied the sebaceous glands !

 

[Sucrates]

I thought estrogen atrophied the sebaceous glands !

Delayed effects of neonatal exposure to Tween 80 on female reproductive organs in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Raincoast]

I have very oily skin and hair. Hair loss in the family (I'm maybe 1 in 10 males over 40 in my extended family with a full head. I also have abnormally high blood lipids, I believe there could be a connection with sebum there. I still get occasional pimples. I use thyroid and progesterone. Previous to that I used Saw Palmetto and even Proscar for a couple years Starting at about 20 years old. I've always shampooed lots. I've never eaten unhealthy, grew up vegan with loads of nuts.
Anyway, perhaps sebum is another variable. I think good blood flow is obviously key.
An observation I've noted over the years is the lack of hair loss in homeless people. I've also noticed that they must have very good digestion as I watch them eat straight out of the garbage as an unrelated side note.
Thyroid & progesterone have only increased my sebum production over the years, as well as increasing my blood lipids. Contrary to what you would think. I also take Pansterone & Androsterone with no hair loss. Did a daily regimen of Keto11dht with no issues either.

 

[franc0]

After using the product polysorbate 80, I can now say that sebum is absolutely a problem in male pattern baldness.

After rubbing it in for 30 seconds, it will already begin to loosen sebum and you will see the oil begin to turn white. That is literally the sebum being dissolved and removed from the follicle. The sebum then mixes with the oil producing a white foam on the scalp. As you do it more and more over several weeks, this foam will form much less on the scalp as the sebum gets removed.

If you are not removing the years old dead skin and sebum, no other hair growth product will work.

What this product does is remove sebum and dead skin from under the follicle.
Every shampoo and product only removes the dead skin from the top of the scalp.

Well, does it grow hair ?

In the 1980s it was used with success but never got accepted by mainstream medicine and there was some things written about it.

Even hamilton noticed eunuchs had less sebum than normal men.
"Barber (5) noted that seborrheic dermatitis is rarely seen
before the stimulation of sebaceous gland activity which begins in puberty. Women ap-
proaching or at the climacteric were found to be prone to seborrheic dermatitis, perhaps
as a result of alteration in the androgen/estrogen ratio. Hamilton (6) reported that cas-
trates and eunuchs do not develop seborrheic dermatitis, acne, or ordinary male baldness,
and that their sebaceous secretion is only one-third that of the normal male. However,
when these subjects were given testosterone, the output of sebum increased, and some
developed seborrheic dermatitis or acne."

Would you say the Polysorbate has made an improvement to your hair, have you seen any regrowth?

 

[johnwester130]

Would you say the Polysorbate has made an improvement to your hair, have you seen any regrowth?

it has removed years of sebum and dead skin

Yes, it's powerful stuff

difficult to say if new hairs are coming through. my scalp is drier and cleaner than ever.

 

[x-ray peat]

I did some googling and got some mixed reviews for polysorbate. I would sum up by saying people think it somewhat works but not that great or reliably. I wonder if Apple Cider Vinegar is another option for removing excess sebum. Anyone try that?

 

[Peater Piper]

Wouldn't it be better to just fight the cause of excessive sebum production, which is a poor progesterone to estrogen ratio as opposed to adding chemicals into the mix. You'll get systemic health wide benefits in addition to fixing your hair

I've heard that too, but unless administration of estrogen/estradiol causes a compensatory rise in progesterone, that doesn't seem to be the case.

The Effect of Estrogen and Androgen on the Sebaceous Gland Turnover Time* - ScienceDirect
Sebaceous Gland Suppression With Ethynyl Estradiol and Diethylstilbestrol
The effect of estradiol on the sebaceous gland of the hamster ear and its antagonism by tamoxifen. - PubMed - NCBI

Basically, administering estradiol reduces sebum production in most (all?) cases. Case closed. Or not?

This group of acne ridden teens had normal levels of testosterone, but high levels of estradiol and estrogen, and an increased amount of sebaceous secretions.
Plasma Testosterone and Estrogen Levels, Urine Testosterone Excretion, and Sebum Production in Males with Acne Vulgaris | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

Testosterone levels in plasma and urine, plasma 17β-estradiol and estrone, and sebum production were measured in 26 males, age 17–21, with acne vulgaris and compared with similar measurements carried out in 16 normal males in the same age range. Sebum production was significantly higher in the subjects with acne. However, both plasma and urine testosterone values did not differ between the 2 groups. Plasma 17β-estradiol and estrone concentrations were both significantly elevated in the acne subjects. No positive correlation was observed between the elevated values for sebum production and plasma estrogens. The significance of the increased estrogen values in acne is unknown. The failure to demonstrate differences in plasma or urine testosterone in acne suggests that this disorder is not accompanied by increased androgen production.

 

[Kibs]

Weird I was thinking about this yesterday, is this not what we are trying to achieve though head massages. If there was away to skip massages for a product would be awesome.

 

[Such_Saturation]

You are giving hair loss advice though.

 

[mistermr]

You are giving hair loss advice though.

Seriously, I ordered the polysorbate 80 the moment I finished reading the original post.

 

[johnwester130]

You are giving hair loss advice though.

well.............. i suppose so

 

[Soren]

Weird I was thinking about this yesterday, is this not what we are trying to achieve though head massages. If there was away to skip massages for a product would be awesome.

Yes I was thinking the same thing. The head massages for me have reduced the amount of sebum that my scalp produces and increased the amount of dandruff which I think is simply due to me massaging away what is left.

However I am weary of something like Polysorbate 80. Like shampoo it is an emulsifier which some say is not very good for the hair growth and may contribute to hair loss through the de-fating of the scalp.

Danny Roddy pointed me to this quote when I asked him why it would not be good to sterilise the scalp using traditional emulsifiers like shampoo.

"The level of scalp and hair lipids shows a relationship to age, and using shampoo "de-fats" the scalp, altering the hair follicles endocrinology for days. In psoriasis, there was a "recognizable shift towards the long-chained fatty acids" compared to the subjects with healthy scalps. Dandruff is the result of a "slight inflammatory reaction," and inhibiting lipolysis can treat dandruff. —Hair and Hair Diseases (1990) and Hair Research (1979)"

 

[johnwester130]

Yes I was thinking the same thing. The head massages for me have reduced the amount of sebum that my scalp produces and increased the amount of dandruff which I think is simply due to me massaging away what is left.

However I am weary of something like Polysorbate 80. Like shampoo it is an emulsifier which some say is not very good for the hair growth and may contribute to hair loss through the de-fating of the scalp.

Danny Roddy pointed me to this quote when I asked him why it would not be good to sterilise the scalp using traditional emulsifiers like shampoo.

"The level of scalp and hair lipids shows a relationship to age, and using shampoo "de-fats" the scalp, altering the hair follicles endocrinology for days. In psoriasis, there was a "recognizable shift towards the long-chained fatty acids" compared to the subjects with healthy scalps. Dandruff is the result of a "slight inflammatory reaction," and inhibiting lipolysis can treat dandruff. —Hair and Hair Diseases (1990) and Hair Research (1979)"

this explains it

Polysorbate for Hair Restoration

 

[Soren]

this explains it

Polysorbate for Hair Restoration

This does not seem to me to be an adequate explanation,

" First, Polysorbate, a known cleanser, emulsifier, and surfactant, helps rid the hair follices of the hormone, dihydrotestosterone or DHT. DHT is the testosterone fraction that is believed to trigger male pattern baldness in men."

• This belief that DHT causes hair loss in men is highly questionable. If it were true all old men would have full heads of hair and young men would be bald as they have the highest level of DHT.
• There might be an argument to say that removing localised DHT in the scalp would help for hair loss but that argument is weak and with little evidence IMO. Also if it were the case that its properties as an emulsifier and surfactant are what help remove the DHT and prevent hair loss, than why wouldn't regular shampoo ingredients such as Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) do the same thing?

"Second, Polysorbate is known to trigger histamine release, which increases blood flow and nutrition to the hair follicles."

• There is evidence to suggest that excess histamine release is the LAST thing you want if you have a balding scalp. There are studies showing that histamine is elevated in scalps of balding men. Danny Roddy has a very well researched article on this, "Anti-Histamines for Pattern Hair Loss".
• Not saying you want zero histamine as it is part of the hair growth cycle however I think there is more evidence that those with balding scalps have too much histamine rather than not enough.

The Itchy scalp - scratching for an explanation
The dreaded scalp itch which is often associated with balding has been documented to be elevated in the presence of high levels of histamine.
From the study linked above, "suggested an association between the subjective perception of itch in the scalp of seborrheic dermatitis patients and the level of histamine in the skin. They reported also that the scalp histamine level in subjects with seborrheic dermatitis was more than twice that in those without it."

"treatment with a commercial potentiated zinc pyrithione shampoo led to a reduction in histamine in subjects with dandruff to a level that was statistically indistinguishable from those who did not have dandruff. This reduction in histamine was accompanied by a highly significant reduction in the perception of itch intensity"

I hope that Polysorbate 80 can aid in hair growth and I am very open to being convinced but the article you linked explaining it does not present enough evidence to me and the part about the elevation of histamine is of particular concern as I think there is evidence to show that this increases hair loss.

 

[Tzheng2012]

The way the polysirbate works sounds similar to what women use to take off their waterproof makeup. Which is basically just a oil product with an emulsifier. Actualky i just looked it up and its usually added to the oil cleansers to get an emulsifier effect so its easier to wash off. It is also used to remove blackheads and subcutaneous filaments. They massage it onto their face and let it soak a bit then add water while rubbing and the oil becomes all white then they rinse off. I wonder if using a product like this (or making your own) would be better because it wont "strip" the oils out as harshly since there may be some oil residue which replaces the natural oils that were washed out.