Why I Believe Very Low Fat ("carbosis") May Be Superior For Lean Bulking

[dbh25]

I agree with Westside nearly 100% of the time

 

[dbh25]

I also think that the "slow weight loss is less stressful" is a bit of a meme. It's less stressful but takes longer so the net amount of stress is still the same. I will say that water fasting causes muscle loss for a trained individual.

People struggle and can't lose the weight, and deceive themselves they are healthier being overweight.

 

[Jem Oz]

Did you do it simply by restricting calories @dbh25? Dramatic restriction, or minimal?

 

[dbh25]

Did you do it simply by restricting calories @dbh25? Dramatic restriction, or minimal?

I do not claim this is peaty, but it worked for me. There were several factors. I was not counting calories, it was probably minimal restriction.
HIIT 2x week, walking or riding a bike outside the other days.
I stopped eating in restaurants and had no processed foods. So fruit, vegetables, boiled eggs, rice, boiled potatoes, oatmeal, 1% milk, etc. If I had meat, I made in a slow cooker. A few servings per week.
No butter or added oils. No added sugar.
I did a few 24 hour fasts, and a period of eating in a 6 hour window. I felt some metabolic reset happening from the fasting.

 

[squanch]

Thanks for that fellas. @Gadsie you're a fan of the calories in/calories out 'approach' - I wonder what you make of people on these forums who say calories don't matter? There are stories of people losing weight eating well over 3000 cals a day (some even claiming they ate 6000 cals), who say simply eat to hunger, keep metabolism high and you'll naturally lose weight when your body knows it's 'safe' to do so.

Calories in / calories out will always be true though, it's just thermodynamics. Your body can't create energy out of nothing or destroy energy. When people say they lost weight while eating very high calories, they just found a way to increase the "calories out" part of the equation instead of decreasing the "calories in".

 

[tca300]

I also think that the "slow weight loss is less stressful" is a bit of a meme. It's less stressful but takes longer so the net amount of stress is still the same. I will say that water fasting causes muscle loss for a trained individual.

I disagree with both of you.
Releasing small amounts of PUFA at a time gives you the ability to excrete them via the liver as toxins and or burn them as fuel.
Massively releasing PUFA would absolutely be more stressful, because the body wont be able to safely handle it all, leading to damage.
Not to mention the massive inflammatory response from excessive lean tissue breakdown caused by extreme caloric restriction.
Crash diets have an extremely low success rate, with the majority ending up fatter than when they started.

 

[tca300]

Just my opinion anyways.

 

[Jem Oz]

4 days into my VLF experiment, first bout of constipation I've had in about 7 years. Continue the research....

 

[Gadsie]

I disagree with both of you.
Releasing small amounts of PUFA at a time gives you the ability to excrete them via the liver as toxins and or burn them as fuel.
Massively releasing PUFA would absolutely be more stressful, because the body wont be able to safely handle it all, leading to damage.
Not to mention the massive inflammatory response from excessive lean tissue breakdown caused by extreme caloric restriction.
Crash diets have an extremely low success rate, with the majority ending up fatter than when they started.

I might agree with the liver detoxifying pufa, but I haven't seen any evidence for this (haven't looked for it). I doubt your body gets rid of fat without simply using it for fuel. The lean tissue loss is greatly exaggerated given you're eating plenty of protein and strength training, even at great caloric deficits.

 

[Gadsie]

4 days into my VLF experiment, first bout of constipation I've had in about 7 years. Continue the research....

I think four days isn't enough. I get extremely stinky poop whenever I switch my diet up but is disappears after a short while.

 

[tara]

Went a week eating nothing but potatoes, lean meat, orange juice and sugar at over 1000-1500 calories above surplus and lost 3 pounds

Um - that doesn't sound like my definition of above surplus?

There are stories of people losing weight eating well over 3000 cals a day

3000+ is normal maintenance calories for many people. More for particularly active men. Doesn't prove or disprove CICO.

Whether you do it slowly or quickly it doesn't matter because your body's reaction to the pufa and chemicals is up to it and you just have to hope for the best.

I think it can matter rather a lot for people whose health is in a delicate state.

People struggle and can't lose the weight, and deceive themselves they are healthier being overweight.

Don't know which 'people' you are talking about. Maybe it applies to some people, but it's inaccurate as a generalisation. Seems there are some people who find it easy to be lean, and are in the habit of being disrespectful of people with different shape and opinions.
I've been both leanish and roundish more than once. Only people who have a definition of healthy that predefines it as lean would describe me as healthier when I have been lean. It doesn't accurately summarise my available energy levels, ability to function, resilience, absence of illness etc.

 

[dbh25]

Don't know which 'people' you are talking about. Maybe it applies to some people, but it's inaccurate as a generalisation. Seems there are some people who find it easy to be lean, and are in the habit of being disrespectful of people with different shape and opinions.
I've been both leanish and roundish more than once. Only people who have a definition of healthy that predefines it as lean would describe me as healthier when I have been lean. It doesn't accurately summarise my available energy levels, ability to function, resilience, absence of illness etc.

I'm referring to several 'people' on the forum that claim being overweight is healthy. I've been overweight myself and lost the weight, so I know. Seems some people make assumptions about some people finding it easy to be lean.
You can have any opinion you like. You can believe carrying extra weight is healthy.

 

[Stramonium]

I've been making progress on lower fat diet after a full fat milk unintended "bulk", I gained a lot of weight, mostly fat. Who would have thought fat would be stored as fat? Stopping the full fat milk + Aspirin combo was an instant fat loss for me.

I agree eating low fat-higher carbs-enough protein will allow you to put on fat burning muscle without pushing your body to breakdown muscle tissue for energy like most people do on these cutting cycles where they restrict carbs

 

[Soundios]

Um - that doesn't sound like my definition of above surplus?

Why not?

 

[cyclops]

Who would have thought fat would be stored as fat? Stopping the full fat milk + Aspirin combo was an instant fat loss for me.

Are you saying you started taking aspirin or stopped taking it, in order to achieve fat loss?

 

[Stramonium]

Are you saying you started taking aspirin or stopped taking it, in order to achieve fat loss?

Stopped aspirin. It makes it nearly impossible to burn fat

 

[cyclops]

Stopped aspirin. It makes it nearly impossible to burn fat

interesting. wonder why people like aspirin so much lol

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I've been making progress on lower fat diet after a full fat milk unintended "bulk", I gained a lot of weight, mostly fat. Who would have thought fat would be stored as fat? Stopping the full fat milk + Aspirin combo was an instant fat loss for me.

I agree eating low fat-higher carbs-enough protein will allow you to put on fat burning muscle without pushing your body to breakdown muscle tissue for energy like most people do on these cutting cycles where they restrict carbs

Amazing isn't it? People hear that SFA is healthy and then they go and drink whole milk, eat gobs of butter, drink cream like a drink, eat cheese and ice cream daily and wonder why they got fat and the chest fat version of gyno.

"You Can Get Fat On Butter" - Ray Peat

Ray Peat On Butter And Cream Vs. Coconut Oil

Ray Peat Agreeing About The Fattening Effect Of Whole Milk And Certain Cheeses

.

 

[Gadsie]

Amazing isn't it? People hear that SFA is healthy and then they go and drink whole milk, eat gobs of butter, drink cream like a drink, eat cheese and ice cream daily and wonder why they got fat and the chest fat version of gyno.

"You Can Get Fat On Butter" - Ray Peat

Ray Peat On Butter And Cream Vs. Coconut Oil

Ray Peat Agreeing About The Fattening Effect Of Whole Milk And Certain Cheeses

.

Not to mention those things are not all that low PUFA

 

[tara]

why not?

Usually surplus means relative to something like maintenance. If you lost weight it would seem kind of by definition that you were eating less than maintenance, not 1000+ more than maintenance.