why does saturated fat + carbs make me fat??

tankasnowgod

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i think you can not vegatable oil compare with real food.
oil got rancid very quickly and that's makes it very unhealthy.
Like fish oil supplements become very quickly toxic when exposed to sunlight and/or higher temp.
But i think pufa from eating whole foods like avocado, fish, nuts are less toxic.

Well, of course. Foods that contain less of a toxin than other foods are obviously going to be less toxic.

Corn and Soybean oil have about 60% of their fat from PUFA, and they are pure fat. So, 100g of either is going to give you roughly 60g of PUFA.

Avocado only has about 10-15% of it's fat from PUFA, and 100g of avocado only contains about 2g of PUFA. So, to get the same amount of PUFA from avocados, you'd have to eat 3 kilos of them.

Atlantic Salmon has about 35-40% of it's fat from PUFA, and to get to that same 60g of PUFA, you'd have to eat about 1.5 kilos.

I don't know anyone that eats 3 kilos (over 6 pounds) of avocados every day. 100g of soybean oil is easier to hit, if you eat a lot of processed foods and at restaurants. And eating 3 pounds of salmon is also doable, though rare. That's part of the reason why Peat pointed out the issues of people on fishing boats developing problems from eating lots of fatty fish.

I think the PUFA in fish, nuts, and avocado is just as toxic as the PUFA in vegetable oils, but there is just less of it.
 
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@Hans Could you give your opinion? Thanks
 

tankasnowgod

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This is surprising and seems to go against what ray teaches...pufa being the worst offender. In my experience dairy fat is more fattening then coconut oil, and i think that has to do with the special mct makeup of coconut oil many of spoken of. But i think vegetable oils would be more fattening then dairy or beef fat and i have found this to be true.
Well, as the general population has eaten more PUFA and Vegetable Oils, the general population has gotten more obese.

PUFA.png


pufa-obesity-B.jpg


obesity.jpg
 

mrchibbs

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I think you've affected your ability to metabolize carbs with years of keto.

That's the main factor IMO, not the combination of sat fat + carbs.

I recommend Danny's clip of Kyle Mamounis here:

 

TheSir

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saturated fat is more fattening than pufa.
Traditionally Peat has talked about farmers who were trying to fatten up their cattle with coconut oil, only to completely fail at it. He said that PUFA is used very much because it allows the cattle to gain more weight.
 

tankasnowgod

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That graph may have more to do with the change in 1998 of the criteria for obesity rather than sugar consumption.


If that were the case, you should see a big spike right at 1998. You don't. So it's likely the graph is under a constant definition, be that the new or old.

Regardless, Obesity continutes to go up in the 2000's, which is all under a constant definition, as sugar intake (and carb intake) go down.
 
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I think you've affected your ability to metabolize carbs with years of keto.

That's the main factor IMO, not the combination of sat fat + carbs.

I recommend Danny's clip of Kyle Mamounis here:



Could you kindly summarize what it says? I have difficulty in translating :( does it talk about FAO inhibition to promote glucose metabolism?
 

GreekDemiGod

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In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.
 
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Braveheart

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In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.
Yes...your body burns carbs preferentially and stores the fat if you are in a caloric surplus.
 

lampofred

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i did keto years ago before peating and i never had a problem eating so much saturated fat whilst very low carb, in fact i lost tons of weight from saturated fat ALONE, but as soon as i combine saturated fats with carbs, its a huge problem - belly bloat, sluggish liver, constantly tired.

low carb + high sat fat = no problems
high carb + no fat = no problems
high carb + monounsaturated/ polyunsaturated = no problems
high carb + saturated fat = tired, bloated, sluggish liver etc.

so what is the issue with saturated fats + carbs???

low carb + high sat fat = burning fat so you don't put on fat
high carb + no fat = you are running on carbs and metabolism is fast so no fat accumulates
high carb + unsaturated fat = unsaturated fat is triggering your adrenals to cause you to burn fat instead of sugar, but it's an unhealthy wasting/cachexia type metabolism
high carb + sat fat = you are running on carbs but the high fat intake slows metabolism & allows fat to accumulate
 

tankasnowgod

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high carb + unsaturated fat = unsaturated fat is triggering your adrenals to cause you to burn fat instead of sugar, but it's an unhealthy wasting/cachexia type metabolism
Still haven't seen any long term evidence of this. As PUFA has skyrocketed, so has obesity.

How come we are in the midst of an "Obesity Epidemic," and not an "Anorexia Epidemic?"
 

GelatinGoblin

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In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.

The other way around. For example Saturated Fat does not affect Glucose Oxidation (Krebs) whereas Polyunsaturated fatty acids extend it at times to something like 15 minutes, the process is pretty much instant without any fat intake or low FFA in the blood, AFAIK this leads to massive Insulin overproduction and well you can guess the rest...
Nothing isn't quite as harmful as sugar (or maybe pure Starch Glucose like potato :wtf ) with PUFA.
But in-general maybe keep fat low with a nice sugar meal. low-medium sat with a big starch meal and some gelatin broth is very anti-stress, especially with something like butter with potato and salt with the broth. Mmm...
 

lampofred

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Still haven't seen any long term evidence of this. As PUFA has skyrocketed, so has obesity.

How come we are in the midst of an "Obesity Epidemic," and not an "Anorexia Epidemic?"

PUFA isn't all the same, some PUFA causes you to go into torpor, other PUFA acts like cocaine, but at its core what the unsaturation does is lower your sense of balance.
 

tankasnowgod

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PUFA isn't all the same, some PUFA causes you to go into torpor, other PUFA acts like cocaine, but at its core what the unsaturation does is lower your sense of balance.

While I doubt this, which "PUFA" do you think is like Cocaine? Omega 6? Omega 3? Omega 7? CLA? Which one?
 

Hans

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@Hans Could you give your opinion? Thanks
Saturated fat with sugar tastes amazing and it's too easy to overeat on it. Just drink coffee with cream and sugar and you'll know what I'm talking about.
You almost always find saturated fat with high carb foods, such as potatoes and butter, coffee, sugar and cream, milkshakes, ice cream, etc., but you also find high carb with high PUFA, such as baked goodies, etc.
Both groups that eat PUFA or SFA with carbs are fat. If you control calories, both groups will lose fat. One group will be healthier than the other group, but it's also highly individual. Some people simply don't do that well on dairy fat, but better on red meat fat, so they have to experiment accordingly.

Many studies find that one diet is better than the other in the short term (few weeks to a few months), however, they both result in the same weight loss or weight gain over the course of 1+ year. The only macro that speeds up fat loss or prevents excess weight gain is protein. And not a lot of people eat enough protein.
 

ursidae

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While I doubt this, which "PUFA" do you think is like Cocaine? Omega 6? Omega 3? Omega 7? CLA? Which one?
IME omega 3, eating raw salmon felt like electricity was running through me. It’s a pity raw meat is not for the immunocompromised like me
 
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Steve

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Saturated fat with sugar tastes amazing and it's too easy to overeat on it. Just drink coffee with cream and sugar and you'll know what I'm talking about.
You almost always find saturated fat with high carb foods, such as potatoes and butter, coffee, sugar and cream, milkshakes, ice cream, etc., but you also find high carb with high PUFA, such as baked goodies, etc.
Both groups that eat PUFA or SFA with carbs are fat. If you control calories, both groups will lose fat. One group will be healthier than the other group, but it's also highly individual. Some people simply don't do that well on dairy fat, but better on red meat fat, so they have to experiment accordingly.

Many studies find that one diet is better than the other in the short term (few weeks to a few months), however, they both result in the same weight loss or weight gain over the course of 1+ year. The only macro that speeds up fat loss or prevents excess weight gain is protein. And not a lot of people eat enough protein.
So if you eat a diet that's high in saturated fat and carbs can you still be lean and healthy as long as you watch your caloric intake?
This type of diet seems so normal to me.

If you start the day with a basic breakfast of eggs with fruit, or eggs with sourdough toast & butter then you're already on the high fat, high carb path.
Then for lunch some 85/15 ground beef with a baked potato with butter.
Dinner of quesadillas.

Everything I eat is high-fat and high-carb. I just think it would be miserable eating any other way, but I also think my fat belly is miserable.
 

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