Why Does Liver Give Me Insane Heartburn?

[raypeatclips]

Does anyone know any reason why liver would give me incredible heartburn that lasts all day? (If I have eaten it for lunch) No other foods give me heartburn to the same intensity as liver, in fact I can't think of many foods at all that give me heartburn at all, but for some reason liver is excruciating.

 

[A.R]

This happens to me sometimes aswell

What type of fat is the liver cooked in? Also, do you supplement vitamin a along with also eating liver?

 

[raypeatclips]

This happens to me sometimes aswell

What type of fat is the liver cooked in? Also, do you supplement vitamin a along with also eating liver?

None, I use a bit of water instead of using fat to cook it. Sometimes 5-10k iu vitamin a on the skin when I remember, but definitely not daily and not on the same day as eating liver.

 

[A.R]

None, I use a bit of water instead of using fat to cook it. Sometimes 5-10k iu vitamin a on the skin when I remember, but definitely not daily and not on the same day as eating liver.

You could try cooking the liver in butter to see if it makes a difference

 

[raypeatclips]

You could try cooking the liver in butter to see if it makes a difference

I'll give it a go when I next eat liver, thanks! What do you theorise would help by cooking it in butter?

 

[squanch]

Have you tried different kinds of liver? (turkey liver instead of beef for example)

 

[Ell]

Hard to say, but liver is high in metals iron, copper, zinc, and the gut bacteria are highly pleomorphic. It could be that the stomach contents shift the terrain to favor a higher population of H. pyelori. One way to test this theory would be to ingest a gram or two of monolaurin (glyceryl monolaurate) along with the liver, or right after eating it. Another possibility might be you've got a sub-clinical case of achlorhydria and if so one of the first things to look at might be bodily iodine levels.

 

[raypeatclips]

Have you tried different kinds of liver? (turkey liver instead of beef for example)

Tried lamb and beef. I have chicken available but assumed it was lesser quality.

Hard to say, but liver is high in metals iron, copper, zinc, and the gut bacteria are highly pleomorphic. It could be that the stomach contents shift the terrain to favor a higher population of H. pyelori. One way to test this theory would be to ingest a gram or two of monolaurin (glyceryl monolaurate) along with the liver, or right after eating it. Another possibility might be you've got a sub-clinical case of achlorhydria and if so one of the first things to look at might be bodily iodine levels.

I've had h pylori tested and it came back negative. The heartburn doesn't happen every time, maybe half the time I eat liver I get the heartburn but it is intense.

 

[A.R]

I'll give it a go when I next eat liver, thanks! What do you theorise would help by cooking it in butter?

Maybe the butter will stimulate the gall bladder to contract, and lead to better digestion. Also extra virgin olive oil is very good for digestion, but it shouldn't be heated, so best way to use that is to cover the cooked liver with it.

Taurine (red bull) is also good.

 

[raypeatclips]

Maybe the butter will stimulate the gall bladder to contract, and lead to better digestion. Also extra virgin olive oil is very good for digestion, but it shouldn't be heated, so best way to use that is to cover the cooked liver with it.

Taurine (red bull) is also good.

Interesting thanks, I'll give it a go.

 

[Zpol]

Hard to say, but liver is high in metals iron, copper, zinc, and the gut bacteria are highly pleomorphic. It could be that the stomach contents shift the terrain to favor a higher population of H. pyelori. One way to test this theory would be to ingest a gram or two of monolaurin (glyceryl monolaurate) along with the liver, or right after eating it. Another possibility might be you've got a sub-clinical case of achlorhydria and if so one of the first things to look at might be bodily iodine levels.

Wow, I just came across this thread looking for info on monolaurin. I cannot eat liver because of insane heartburn as well. The heartburn is so bad my voice becomes hoarse. I get the same thing, only a slightly lesser degree, if I take any mineral supplement, including the steam water from cooked greens. I have been tested for H. Pylori and the result was negative, although, taking Mastic gum is the only thing that really helps my GERD symptoms so maybe the test (via scope and biopsy) was a false negative. Mastic Gum is theorized to help with heartburn because it kills bacteria in the stomach. Tums help somewhat too but only slightly.
I also have documented bile flow issues. The day that the bile flow issues started was the day my GERD and LPR became horrendously unbearable; had to move back in with my parents because I couldn't even function.
Anyway, thanks for this, I will try the monolaurin in addition to the Mastic and hope cure this h. pylori once and for all. Taurine will help with the bile flow but slows transit for me.

 

[whodathunkit]

I have low bile issues (liver issues in general), and issues with digestion (presumably with all digestive/pancreatic enzymes and acids, based on my symptoms).

For a while eating anything that stimulated digestion (stuff like liver, pickled ginger, or even just a lot of fat) would often cause a "hyper digestive state" in which the organs feeding into or around the common bile duct seemed to be in overdrive, but then everything south of the stomach was hyper, hyper SLOW. So everything seemed to go into my stomach and would just sit there trying to move through, with increasing burn and pain. I'd get these horrible, painful, burning attacks that radiated up into my throat and into my back, that I thought were gallbladder or pancreatitis, but finally a visit to the hospital with labs revealed no abnormal levels of anything apparent anywhere in bloodwork or on scans.

From reading about other people's digestive problems and symptoms, I realized I probably had partial, intermittent gastroparesis, where part of the alimentary canal is working but part of it stops. Mainstream thought is that gastroparesis is brought about by damage to the vagus nerve, but based on what we know around and my experience with it, I figure most of it what most people experience is probably due to some kind of acute neurotransmitter imbalance. Lots of receptors in the gut for various neurotransmitters, not just serotonin. So it stands to reason that an acute neurotransmitter imbalance would lead to digestive issues. Also worth noting is that many of the substances the nervous system needs are also used by various organs to function or perform other functions. Choline is an easy one that comes to mind...the liver needs choline to function optiomally, but choline is also used for various nervous system functions. So there might be a "double drain" on choline in people who don't get enough, or in people who can't utilize it properly due to liver dysfunction or some other cause.

Sadly, I've forgotten a lot of what I read about all this back when I was having problems (mainly because I've corrected the acute problem and don't refer back to it much), but I do remember what helped me. Making a list here in case it helps anyone else.

--Taurine combined with glycine. I use powders. These two are necessary for the creation of bile. Usage is ongoing and probably lifelong, although the dose now is less in amount and less frequent than when I was having acute problems. At least once daily for sure, for maintenance. With every meal when acute.

--Choline. But not too much, as choline can cause excitotoxicity. Taking everyday for a few days or a week and then going down to every few days or once per week dosage is fine. Prefer alpha GPC because has most actual choline available for use in the liver. Other forms like citicholine are much lower in choline and are more for nootropic effect. They can cause nervousness, jitteriness, etc. Alpha GPC is still a staple in my medicine cabinet although I don't need to use it regularly any more. Only occasional PRN use. Once a digestive problem is rectified eating eggs might do the trick, although I found eggs ineffective to get choline in the beginning because my body couldn't digest them well enough to derive benefit from the choline they contained.

--NOT drinking coffee. Coffee is anticholinesterase inhibitor, and we need the proper breakdown and uptake of acetylcholine in order to avoid excitotoxicity and for proper digestion and neurotransmitter formation. Especially avoid coffee when taking choline. I don't care what Peat or anyone says about caffeine, IME/IMO coffee/caffeine is not something anyone needs to do on a daily basis, especially not people with existing health issues. It takes too many/much vitamins/minerals/energy to metabolize it properly. IME/IMO anyone with acute digestive issues should avoid coffee and caffeine. Occasional use once acute problems are resolved is probably fine. I love it, but can't use it more than a few days in a row without negative excitotoxic effects showing up.

--TUDCA. AKA tauroursodeoxychloric acid, or taurine conjugated with ursodeoxychloric acid aka ox bile. Available OTC. If you take TUDCA read up on it, I found it very benign but there may be some caveats such as watching alcohol intake while using it. With TUDCA you can skip the taurine mentioned above, since taurine comes in TUDCA, and supplement only with glycine powder. TUDCA not necessary for long-term supplementation but very helpful in acute and newly subacute situations.

--UDCA. Same as TUDCA but without the taurine. Available by prescription only, but can be had easily enough via international pharmacies. I actually prefer to use UDCA and supplement with taurine/glycine powders separately, instead of using TUDCA. But getting UDCA can be a bit of a pain, and TUDCA is fine. Which to use probably depends on availability, preference, and perspective.

--Combo OTC bile acids and digestive enzymes with every meal, but not too much. Don't use these at same time as UDCA or TUDCA. I like Jarrow Bile Acid factors, but can be very strong so don't overdo. When I was first rectifying my problems I used UDCA or TUDCA alone as I found the OTC combos too strong, and they would sometimes cause problems. Now I can take the cheaper although overall less therapeutic combo supps.

--Gelatin. Via broth or powder. I prefer broth as I think it has better therapeutic effect. But high quality powdered gelatin is probably fine even if it can cause more problems in folks with digestive issues. IME/IMO hydrolyzed collagen has no therapeutic value, so don't sub the gelatin powder with that.

Those are my main recommendations. I haven't had an attack in nearly two years, although based on some subacute symptoms I suspect I still have silent acid reflux. But even that continues to improve with ongoing supplementation, careful attention to diet like regular intake of gelatin, and some lifestyle modification. I expect I will lick the silent acid reflux eventually, too.

Good luck!

 

[Prosper]

I love it, but can't use it more than a few days in a row without negative excitotoxic effects showing up.

What do symptoms of excitotoxicity mean when it comes to coffee?

 

[lvysaur]

I don't care what Peat or anyone says about caffeine, IME/IMO coffee/caffeine is not something anyone needs to do on a daily basis, especially not people with existing health issues. It takes too many/much vitamins/minerals/energy to metabolize it properly.I love it, but can't use it more than a few days in a row without negative excitotoxic effects showing up.

I agree, I've felt this pattern. Drinking coffee after a long absence really picks up the metabolism, and forgoing it after a period of drinking kind of clears your head. I try to drink it every three days or so.

 

[raypeatclips]

By the way, I asked Peat about this issue, eating liver and heartburn. He said it takes a lot of carbohydrate and fat to digest liver, and that he liked eating ice cream after his serving of liver. The last two times I ate liver, I had a generous bowl of ice cream afterwards and got no heartburn issues.

 

[EIRE24]

By the way, I asked Peat about this issue, eating liver and heartburn. He said it takes a lot of carbohydrate and fat to digest liver, and that he liked eating ice cream after his serving of liver. The last two times I ate liver, I had a generous bowl of ice cream afterwards and got no heartburn issues.

Interesting. I have at times eaten liver alone or with very little carbs and have felt spaced out of it and awful. I think this statement is important and that liver should be eaten with a higher calorie meal

 

[InChristAlone]

I have low bile issues (liver issues in general), and issues with digestion (presumably with all digestive/pancreatic enzymes and acids, based on my symptoms).

For a while eating anything that stimulated digestion (stuff like liver, pickled ginger, or even just a lot of fat) would often cause a "hyper digestive state" in which the organs feeding into or around the common bile duct seemed to be in overdrive, but then everything south of the stomach was hyper, hyper SLOW. So everything seemed to go into my stomach and would just sit there trying to move through, with increasing burn and pain. I'd get these horrible, painful, burning attacks that radiated up into my throat and into my back, that I thought were gallbladder or pancreatitis, but finally a visit to the hospital with labs revealed no abnormal levels of anything apparent anywhere in bloodwork or on scans.

From reading about other people's digestive problems and symptoms, I realized I probably had partial, intermittent gastroparesis, where part of the alimentary canal is working but part of it stops. Mainstream thought is that gastroparesis is brought about by damage to the vagus nerve, but based on what we know around and my experience with it, I figure most of it what most people experience is probably due to some kind of acute neurotransmitter imbalance. Lots of receptors in the gut for various neurotransmitters, not just serotonin. So it stands to reason that an acute neurotransmitter imbalance would lead to digestive issues. Also worth noting is that many of the substances the nervous system needs are also used by various organs to function or perform other functions. Choline is an easy one that comes to mind...the liver needs choline to function optiomally, but choline is also used for various nervous system functions. So there might be a "double drain" on choline in people who don't get enough, or in people who can't utilize it properly due to liver dysfunction or some other cause.

Sadly, I've forgotten a lot of what I read about all this back when I was having problems (mainly because I've corrected the acute problem and don't refer back to it much), but I do remember what helped me. Making a list here in case it helps anyone else.

--Taurine combined with glycine. I use powders. These two are necessary for the creation of bile. Usage is ongoing and probably lifelong, although the dose now is less in amount and less frequent than when I was having acute problems. At least once daily for sure, for maintenance. With every meal when acute.

--Choline. But not too much, as choline can cause excitotoxicity. Taking everyday for a few days or a week and then going down to every few days or once per week dosage is fine. Prefer alpha GPC because has most actual choline available for use in the liver. Other forms like citicholine are much lower in choline and are more for nootropic effect. They can cause nervousness, jitteriness, etc. Alpha GPC is still a staple in my medicine cabinet although I don't need to use it regularly any more. Only occasional PRN use. Once a digestive problem is rectified eating eggs might do the trick, although I found eggs ineffective to get choline in the beginning because my body couldn't digest them well enough to derive benefit from the choline they contained.

--NOT drinking coffee. Coffee is anticholinesterase inhibitor, and we need the proper breakdown and uptake of acetylcholine in order to avoid excitotoxicity and for proper digestion and neurotransmitter formation. Especially avoid coffee when taking choline. I don't care what Peat or anyone says about caffeine, IME/IMO coffee/caffeine is not something anyone needs to do on a daily basis, especially not people with existing health issues. It takes too many/much vitamins/minerals/energy to metabolize it properly. IME/IMO anyone with acute digestive issues should avoid coffee and caffeine. Occasional use once acute problems are resolved is probably fine. I love it, but can't use it more than a few days in a row without negative excitotoxic effects showing up.

--TUDCA. AKA tauroursodeoxychloric acid, or taurine conjugated with ursodeoxychloric acid aka ox bile. Available OTC. If you take TUDCA read up on it, I found it very benign but there may be some caveats such as watching alcohol intake while using it. With TUDCA you can skip the taurine mentioned above, since taurine comes in TUDCA, and supplement only with glycine powder. TUDCA not necessary for long-term supplementation but very helpful in acute and newly subacute situations.

--UDCA. Same as TUDCA but without the taurine. Available by prescription only, but can be had easily enough via international pharmacies. I actually prefer to use UDCA and supplement with taurine/glycine powders separately, instead of using TUDCA. But getting UDCA can be a bit of a pain, and TUDCA is fine. Which to use probably depends on availability, preference, and perspective.

--Combo OTC bile acids and digestive enzymes with every meal, but not too much. Don't use these at same time as UDCA or TUDCA. I like Jarrow Bile Acid factors, but can be very strong so don't overdo. When I was first rectifying my problems I used UDCA or TUDCA alone as I found the OTC combos too strong, and they would sometimes cause problems. Now I can take the cheaper although overall less therapeutic combo supps.

--Gelatin. Via broth or powder. I prefer broth as I think it has better therapeutic effect. But high quality powdered gelatin is probably fine even if it can cause more problems in folks with digestive issues. IME/IMO hydrolyzed collagen has no therapeutic value, so don't sub the gelatin powder with that.

Those are my main recommendations. I haven't had an attack in nearly two years, although based on some subacute symptoms I suspect I still have silent acid reflux. But even that continues to improve with ongoing supplementation, careful attention to diet like regular intake of gelatin, and some lifestyle modification. I expect I will lick the silent acid reflux eventually, too.

Good luck!

I had bad heartburn from liver last night. I remembered I just read this thread! I dont have issues with most other foods. I had ice cream an HR or two before the liver. Then came the sour burps all evening

I do wonder if cyproheptadine has something to do with it. It is anticholinergic and my liver enzymes were slightly raised. I haven't had coffee/caffeine in over a yr. I do eat some chocolate though. I noticed K2 helps my digestion I think it does help the liver as talked about on here and I wouldn't have learned about this if it we're not for this forum!

 

[opiath]

Copper Promotes TFF1-Mediated Helicobacter pylori Colonization

 

[EIRE24]

Copper Promotes TFF1-Mediated Helicobacter pylori Colonization

Zinc would oppose this then?

 

[whodathunkit]

By the way, I asked Peat about this issue, eating liver and heartburn. He said it takes a lot of carbohydrate and fat to digest liver, and that he liked eating ice cream after his serving of liver. The last two times I ate liver, I had a generous bowl of ice cream afterwards and got no heartburn issues.

This is good to know.

@Janelle525, how do you know your liver enzymes were raised? Did you have a recent blood test? Just curious.