Well, if you go to search about IF and Ketogenic Diet, they all said that these offers you that. This was the reason I started doing IF.
And those are the reasons why I am writing on this forum now :p
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Why Does High Metabolism = Better Health?
- Thread starter Ukall
- Start date
yeah 10-12 years ago i wasnt even reading about nutrition on internet ,but i was working out so hard, running morning while on fast.low carb,low salt diet, at the time i thought it is great,motivation and everything.but now i think that was delusion/shadow of motivated/high energy state.first encounter with those high stress hormones usually trick us.but staying in that state gradually shows how it damages everything.
What about calcium? I literally stopped taking calcium, i.e., the whole conspiracy about milk made me stop taking it. Also salt, not anymore.
But I guess you were still eating enough protein those years. In these last 3 months, I have been eating less Protein and atm I am really scared about my legs: my calves are literally bigger than my femoris.
Damn, it is exactly that! What did you do to revert that?
Tenacity
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- Mar 12, 2016
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- 844
@Ukall high carb,mostly from ripped fruits.to have your glycogen stores filled.starches are good but good quality fruits are better.
enough protein which is balanced with gelatin from bone broth.
being in light.
checking your thyroid hormones.
liver for vitamin A/k and other nurients.
salt to taste, and calcium is important , have it with every meal to balance phosphates.
cooked vegetables for trace minerals,
some supplements like niacinamide ,taurine,b6 can really help.
this quote of ray peat:
but if you want try "Temporary excess of some nutrients" be careful with some of them like b6.
there is a lot of things, read ray's articles , listening his interviews.also searching this forum there is lot of info.
you can carefully use some drugs for short period and low dose to keep stress hormones low, so thyroid take their place.but do your own research on them before doing it.
enough protein which is balanced with gelatin from bone broth.
being in light.
checking your thyroid hormones.
liver for vitamin A/k and other nurients.
salt to taste, and calcium is important , have it with every meal to balance phosphates.
cooked vegetables for trace minerals,
some supplements like niacinamide ,taurine,b6 can really help.
this quote of ray peat:
but if you want try "Temporary excess of some nutrients" be careful with some of them like b6.
there is a lot of things, read ray's articles , listening his interviews.also searching this forum there is lot of info.
you can carefully use some drugs for short period and low dose to keep stress hormones low, so thyroid take their place.but do your own research on them before doing it.
Tenacity
Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2016
- Messages
- 844
As soon as you add Peat suggestions to your life and you see them working clearly, easily, you discover something: common authorities, whoever they are, are either lying or don't know what they are talking about. It's a gestalt switch. Once this view snaps into place and you work with it, your mind can't go back. Well, I am really just speaking for myself, but it's so compelling when that weird edifice comes tumbling down, then you are free to just be a kid again. There are challenges and you have to be scrupulous about avoiding PUFA because they are poisonous, and re-building your life after adrenaline is like moving to a strange land. But, it's a beautiful, fascinating, generous place.
Tarmander
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2015
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- 3,772
No, it isn't the opposite. What happens when you fast? Stress hormones rise. Cortisol and adrenaline will break down tissues to be used as fuel. You actually gain more energy when you fast and hence consciousness rises for the short term.
damngoodcoffee
Member
IF and fasting just rely on adrenalin for energy and we'll being. It's a very short sighted view. Ray Peat has already refuted the fasting = longer life.
Also you should not feel you heart beating. That is a bad sign of stress. My resting bpm is 70 and I never feel it. I used to have heart palps and a thumping heart all the time in my low carb days.
Ukall, your logic is flawed. It's cool though, it's hard to understand these concepts at first when mainstream medicine and other dietary ideologies (low carb, IF, paleo) try to convince you otherwise.
Also you should not feel you heart beating. That is a bad sign of stress. My resting bpm is 70 and I never feel it. I used to have heart palps and a thumping heart all the time in my low carb days.
Ukall, your logic is flawed. It's cool though, it's hard to understand these concepts at first when mainstream medicine and other dietary ideologies (low carb, IF, paleo) try to convince you otherwise.
I wish I had hungry to control and know how my glycogen stores are. Without feeling it, I can be eating with them already filled :/
From Cow?
I didn't know liver was so rich on nutrients.
How can I get my calcium? I can't go back and start drinking milk again... I mean, I could, but would prefer to be followed by some physician and not start doing on my own.
Do you care about the Maillard Reaction?
Like I said about milk, I would rather be taking supplements if someone was following me.
It's so hard to avoid PUFA. I mean, I am still a college student and I am noticing that I am more focused on my health than my studies (well, this is not that bad, health first of course, but I am completely ignoring studies right now :s). For example, eating at school is way easier and practical. But the food there...
How don't how you guys deal with it. But for me, it seems all my day is about food and that I don't have time for anything else.
Here we say to avoid PUFA. Few months ago my doctor said to avoid sugar (specially fructose). For example, look how my breakfast looked like those days:
Smoothie with Chia Seeds, Flaxseeds, Sunflower Seeds, Pumpkin Seeds, Sesame Seeds, 1 Avocado, Cocoa Powder and almond milk (no sugar added).
Now I am like: "Ok, I am lost.
Is sugar bad or not? Those smoothies were all PUFA...
Should I start doing this again (November 2015, December 2015) before doing IF and drinking OJ (2016 till today)?
Or start another new journey?"
It is all so confusing :S
Hmm, makes sense. So we start relying on adrenalin breaking down tissues for energy.
But what about those ketones?
It is said the body start using ketones and not all of them need cortisol to be used.
Fasting and Muscle Mass
This Jason Fung says also like "Ask yourself this. Do you believe that Mother Nature designed us to store excess energy as fat, but as soon as we need it, we start burning protein instead of fat? No, protein is conserved and fat is burned for fuel during fasting." (source: Intermittent Fasting – Questions & Answers - Diet Doctor)
Really? My heart seems like a bomb when beating. And, guess what, I was always proud of it :')
This is so interesting and confusing at the same time.... I mean, if someone checked my heartbeat and I had 70 bpm, I think they would say the exact opposite, that I was on stress. Having it lower, means that I am relaxed (supposedly). I mean, it somehow makes sense: if I am running my bpm increases. So if I am trying to rest, my BPM should be lower not the same as running.
Yeah, but that's how I feel. Thoughts continuously coming to my head...
I must keep wondering and interrogating about everything (consumes me a bit though). I have this problem of not being cautious enough... IF was something I did without reading enough of it. I mean, I read, but I was so convinced about it that I start doing it immediately.
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Tarmander
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- Apr 30, 2015
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I feel you man. I think part of why this can be so confusing is that most people who are interested in health, write about it, etc, answer the question of "good vs bad." Asking what to do and what to avoid is a common shortcut that people use when they do not have the energy to seek understanding. That doctor who said that sugar is bad was giving you a shortcut, he was not explaining how something worked. To move through confusion, you have to move away from good and bad and towards "how." "What happens when I eat sugar?" This is something you could ask your doctor. He will probably have reasons that have to do with insulin, and if you continue to ask questions, you will start running into assumptions and paradoxes. Most studies today are not worth much more then toilet paper. They say things like "Sugar affects the brain negatively through novel genetic receptors located at the 254RG SNP." It doesn't explain or even really mean anything because once you start digging you see how many paradoxes it relies on. Of course it will be confusing when this is the case. The whole purpose of the study was to confirm, not to explore.
And I ask her. But since I am a complete ignorant on this subject, she kicks my ****. She starts saying those weird words related with biochemistry and other things that I can't really understand (like this one you have said 254RG SNP), so I feel completely diminished and starting to be afraid.
CoolTweetPete
Member
I think if you start to read a few of Dr. Peat's articles, these ideas will become more cohesive to you. The things you have learned about nutrition and physiology from your IF / low carb days will be brought back into a new context where they make more sense.
I don't think I would have been able to grasp or even have been interested in Dr. Peat's work if I had never been on low carb.
Everyone here seems to have a Low Carb experience from the past xD
PeatThemAll
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- Oct 3, 2015
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- 280
Hear! Hear! And ironically my Facebook timeline today is plastered with 'high fat was the right thing all along' posts.
That sounds like professional ignorance to me. Look up bradycardia on wikipedia.
AIUI, endurance athletes can get better endurance by having a low resting heart-rate and temps, but it's at a cost in terms of long-term health.
Higher base metabolism means more oxygen and fuel being used to produce more energy. This requires higher heart-rate to keep the tissues supplied with oxygen. More energy produced means more energy available for every living thing the cells need to do to maintain their own health and the health or the tissues, organs and systems they comprise. Including growth, repair, function and detoxification. The whole body needs energy, but the brain especially uses a lot of energy and needs a constant supply.
And stresses, PUFA and other poisons have not yet run them down so much.
Faster heartrate doesn't necessarily mean much harder/louder. I assume it has to do with pressure. If you are hearing it while resting, there may be other things going on.
If you cut carbs too low, you get high stress hormones. One of the purposes of stress hormones is to make more fuel available to meet current energy needs. This can sometimes feel better in the short term. Cortisol turns protein into sugar for fuel - ie chronically elevated cortisol can result in breaking down organs - not good in the long term. Cortisol also has some anti-inflammatory effects, so that can also look like a 'cure' in the short term, even while chronically high cortisol hinders real healing. Adrenaline tends to increase breathing-rate, which lowers CO2 levels, and redirects circulation away from extremities and digestive system towards big skeletal muscles. Really useful short-term when you need to run or fight. Not so good when you need to digest and repair/rebuild, and when you are not running and generating lots more CO2 by running etc. Other stress hormones (eg estrogen, serotonin, ...) also have a useful roles, but chronically elevated levels cause trouble in the long-term.
AIUI, using the body and mind to overcome challenges can be part of healthy development. But chronically or too acutely overwhelming it with too much challenge - more than it has resources to handle - can wear it down. We are evolved to move and sometimes exert ourselves hard, but also to have time and nutrition (and sunlight etc) to recover in between. Eg muscles that are temporarily stressed by a work-out do their repair and growing during rest, given adequate nutrition etc. Pushing too hard does damage.
I think it's a matter of taking the challenges that are appropriate for our current health - sometimes that may mean climbing mountains or swimming in the sea, or taking a temporary fast, or learning a new language, and sometimes we have to be more gentle with ourselves. If we are chronically cold, it makes more sense to focus on keeping warm. If our glycogen storage is poor, fasting too long can do more harm than good. If we have low thyroid function, too much physical work can run us down more, so shorter exertion may suit better.
I think you want a happy medium - you don't want to risk bleeding to death with every scrape, but too sticky can raise other risks - eg excessive clotting, and maybe harder for the blood to flow through capillaries, etc. I wonder if this affects pressure and hearing the heart beat. I occasionally hear/feel my heart beat when I wake up at night, and I take it as a sign that something is off. Sometimes a drink of water fixes it (I guess it dilutes and thins the blood?). Sometimes it's fuel/food I need. Sometimes it's that I've lapsed into open-mouthed breathing (hyperventilation), and sticking my head under the covers calms things down again. If it's too strong for all those tactics, I get up and move. Doesn't happen often now.
I think paymanz is giving good advice.
I strongly recommend reading/listening to Peat's articles and interviews, even if they don't seem to stick at first. I had to reread things a few times before I got much sense out of them, and I still have more to grasp. The interviews are easier. I found it amazing how much of what I though I knew was challenged.
Boiling doesn't do this as much as frying/baking, right? Peat usually recommends well-boiled veges.
It takes a bit of reorganising and planning.
Do you have severe trouble with milk? Some people apparently can readapt to it by strating very small ( a little with meals) and gradually increasing over a few weeks, t give the digestive enzymes a chance to work. Unless your reactions are severe - eg anaphylactic - I imagine it would be reasonable safe to try a little cautiously and see how it goes. It may not work for yo at this time, but if it does, it can be good food. Otherwise, eggshells.
Ketones themselvesm ay be great, but I don't know that you can get into a state that produces lots of ketones without putting yourself through destructive stress (low carb - high stress hormones).
That may sometimes be true for short term carb deficit. If the body experiences ongoing food/energy deficiency, it has a number of mechanisms it can use to preserve itself. Lean tissue takes more energy to maintain than does fat. So reducing lean tissue can be life saving in a famine. So is the ability to store fat efficiently when food does show up. The human species has survived many famines.
If your heartrate goes up to 70bbm today, it probably is from stress. It's the rate when relaxed/at low stress that says more about BMR.
You can make gradual changes that make sense to you based on what you learn, and watch what happens to see if they are working for you. No need to dive in head first over night.
I strongly recommend reading/listening to Peat's articles and interviews, even if they don't seem to stick at first. I had to reread things a few times before I got much sense out of them, and I still have more to grasp. The interviews are easier. I found it amazing how much of what I though I knew was challenged.
just eating fruit and vegetables help to get calcium,also you can take calcium supplements,you can skip dairy if you dont like them.
yes cow liver,others are fine i guess.
boiled veg for short time, i dont know much about millard reaction.i also eat raw vegs,the ones without guitogens.
btw best fruits in my opinion are melons,papaya,mangos.well ripped sweet ones.
yes cow liver,others are fine i guess.
boiled veg for short time, i dont know much about millard reaction.i also eat raw vegs,the ones without guitogens.
is that means you dont take supplements? sorry i didnt understand.
btw best fruits in my opinion are melons,papaya,mangos.well ripped sweet ones.
CoolTweetPete
Member
Lol. It's frustrating being ahead of the curve like that.
I listen to comedian Joe Rogan's podcast, and he had Mark Sisson on recently, so now he's been promoting a low carb diet to millions of listeners. I've been bugging Joe on Twitter for months to get Danny Roddy on to tell the other side of the story, but no dice.
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