Why Does Finasteride Work For Some People?

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Hi all,

I don't post here often but I lurk a few times a year to see where everything is at with the latest hair-loss theories and treatments. Recently I have been pondering Finasteride and why it seems to work very well for some people. Does anyone know of a theory that would explain this?

From what I've been able to gather the prevailing thought behind the Peat/Roddy "alternate" explanation for hair-loss is that reduced thyroid function kicks of a negative compensatory hormone cascade that eventually results in increased hair-loss. I keep coming back to DHT though.

Recently, I've been watching a lot of YouTube channels that defend Finasteride quite vehemently and it has caused me to consider it as an option. I think it's literally the only hair-loss cure that I haven't at-least tried. Finasteride is so easy to get online now that I've been thinking about giving it a shot. My hair-line has hung in there pretty good over the years but I still have diffuse thinning up-top over most of my head. If Finasteride is truly poison, why does it work so well for some people and why do many continue to defend it?

Let's discuss! ;)
Also, if there's a thread about this already that I missed please post a link.

(I'm including this vid for reference)
The Misunderstood Role of DHT in Male Pattern Baldness



Thanks,
H9
 

Ableton

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Fin is at best a decision between your manliness and your hair. At best. So the first question is if you are willing to go for that tradeoff, assuming you are not hopping on trt as well.
If you are not willing to compromise your masculinity, fin is off the table. Simple as. There is no one with zero sides. Only people with sides not strong enough to cluster them around a specific symptom.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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Fin is at best a decision between your manliness and your hair. At best. So the first question is if you are willing to go for that tradeoff, assuming you are not hopping on trt as well.
If you are not willing to compromise your masculinity, fin is off the table. Simple as. There is no one with zero sides. Only people with sides not strong enough to cluster them around a specific symptom.

That's an interesting perspective.

If I were to try Finasteride, my body would still be making testosterone, it just wouldn't be converting to DHT as readily. What constitutes "manliness" is largely subjective but I do hear echos of what you're saying there. One would essentially be choosing a somewhat neotenized hormone profile for aesthetic purposes. That's more of a philosophical answer though.

I'm trying to figure out why, mechanistically, some people can eat garbage and lead horrible lifestyles, but still never loose any hair on the top of their head. I know at least a few people like this and they all have similar external physiological profiles and habits.
 

Ableton

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That's an interesting perspective.

If I were to try Finasteride, my body would still be making testosterone, it just wouldn't be converting to DHT as readily. What constitutes "manliness" is largely subjective but I do hear echos of what you're saying there. One would essentially be choosing a somewhat neotenized hormone profile for aesthetic purposes. That's more of a philosophical answer though.

I'm trying to figure out why, mechanistically, some people can eat garbage and lead horrible lifestyles, but still never loose any hair on the top of their head. I know at least a few people like this and they all have similar external physiological profiles and habits.

asians are the highest t, lowest dht race.

i have 3 friends on fin for years. Their body compositions got less manly, their jawlines too. All this tissue is dht receptive. One reported flaccid d size decrease. Hair good though. They probably have more stuff going on they don’t talk about.

brain connection is scary too. So is newer some research indicating fin might alter your dna (if you want kids)

it’s incredibly potent stuff

what are those characteristics in your eyes?
 

Jem Oz

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Don't do it. I was on Fin for 8 years. Took me about 3 years to get over PFS when I quit. You can talk yourself into anything, and I know the desire to keep your hair is strong. But seriously, just don't do it.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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asians are the highest t, lowest dht race.

Whoa, really? That's funny because I hold Asian cultures in very high regard to the point where I sometimes jokingly refer to myself as an Asian-Supremacist :D. Anecdotally I've recently read online that finasteride is very popular in the east. Personally, I have primarily Mediterranean genetic ancestry and baldness runs in my family. I have uncles with good heads of hair but there's no telling what they might be taking.

i have 3 friends on fin for years. Their body compositions got less manly, their jawlines too. All this tissue is dht receptive. One reported flaccid d size decrease. Hair good though. They probably have more stuff going on they don’t talk about.

brain connection is scary too. So is newer some research indicating fin might alter your dna (if you want kids)

The potential mental side effects are what scare me the most. I have a demanding job and I need my brain to be functioning at optimum levels on the reg. Messing up my neurosteroids is the last thing I want to do. Not too big on the idea of having children right now but who knows how I'll feel in the future.

The dosage guidelines I've come across recently only recommend 3mg of fin a week. That seems so low "and you can always stop taking it". I have excluded DHT from my picture of hair-loss for the last few years and haven't really gotten significantly better, or worse. I like having head hair though. it's fun.

it’s incredibly potent stuff

what are those characteristics in your eyes?

When I think manly, I think Kratos from God of War, lol.
 
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its going to severely drop your DHT which is a powerful anti estrogen in the body. i think people that aren't effected all ready have a large amount of testosterone in the body and probably aren't running on stress as bad as people with PFS. people with pfs tend to be skinny, lower sterid hormones, etc. the risk you have is that if you take it, your body is going to have increased estrogen that may not be opposed properly. a lot of people defending it will stay on finasteride, and then they will take testosterone while they are on finasteride and the extra testosterone is what allows them to maintain the balance and keep estrogen in check. however, this is risky because the problem with finasteride is when you get off it the problems can get really bad.

if u believe in peat's principles, which is estrogen is highly dangerous and should be kept under control, finasteride is a very risky pill to take for this reason.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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Don't do it. I was on Fin for 8 years. Took me about 3 years to get over PFS when I quit. You can talk yourself into anything, and I know the desire to keep your hair is strong. But seriously, just don't do it.

Have you tried or heard any good things about more "natural" topical solutions to block DHT at the scalp? Pumpkin seed oil has been making some noise recently and I happen to have some sitting around.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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its going to severely drop your DHT which is a powerful anti estrogen in the body. i think people that aren't effected all ready have a large amount of testosterone in the body and probably aren't running on stress as bad as people with PFS. people with pfs tend to be skinny, lower sterid hormones, etc. the risk you have is that if you take it, your body is going to have increased estrogen that may not be opposed properly. a lot of people defending it will stay on finasteride, and then they will take testosterone while they are on finasteride and the extra testosterone is what allows them to maintain the balance and keep estrogen in check. however, this is risky because the problem with finasteride is when you get off it the problems can get really bad.

if u believe in peat's principles, which is estrogen is highly dangerous and should be kept under control, finasteride is a very risky pill to take for this reason.

I think this is the puzzle piece I'm not taking into consideration.
Thank you.
 

Jem Oz

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When I quit Fin cold turkey (foolish given I was on it for 8 years), I had 2 stress-induced hair sheds in the ensuing few years, but it's been 8 years since I was on it and I still have a full head of hair. Might be luck, might be 'genes', or it might be that I discovered Ray Peat about 5 years ago and drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.

Funny thing is, now that I'm older, the thought of losing my hair doesn't bother me so much. However I know when you're in your 20s in particular, it can be a bleak thought.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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When I quit Fin cold turkey (foolish given I was on it for 8 years), I had 2 stress-induced hair sheds in the ensuing few years, but it's been 8 years since I was on it and I still have a full head of hair. Might be luck, might be 'genes', or it might be that I discovered Ray Peat about 5 years ago and drastically changed my diet and lifestyle.

Funny thing is, now that I'm older, the thought of losing my hair doesn't bother me so much. However I know when you're in your 20s in particular, it can be a bleak thought.

You know, I will be 35 next year and I'm growing more ambivalent about my hair by the month. Hair growth is more of a puzzle or a side hobby for me (to some extent) . But I'll defiantly have to grow some facial hair at some point to balance out this mediterranean schnoz if I lose more of my hair. :artist:
 

Jem Oz

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You know, I will be 35 next year and I'm growing more ambivalent about my hair by the month. Hair growth is more of a puzzle or a side hobby for me (to some extent) . But I'll defiantly have to grow some facial hair at some point to balance out this mediterranean schnoz if I lose more of my hair. :artist:
Haha well you've got humour on your side. Plus, they say if your crown is getting wispy, forget about it, hit the gym, update the wardrobe and, as you say, grow facial hair. You'll be laughing.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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Thinking about this whole Estrogen factor I'm reminded of the fact that all of my drinking water comes from store bought PLASTIC jugs. I should switch back to filters for a minute.
 

mrchibbs

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Finasteride is basically a frankenstein'ed cousin of progesterone, just like cyproterone acetate or spironolactone. All three of these drugs have accounts of hair regrowth, at all ages, and all three are synthesized from progesterone as the starting molecule. So to some extent they retain the characteristics of progesterone, but with added downsides from the re-engineering. Progesterone probably stops the effects of chronic estrogen, prolactin, aldosterone elevation etc. which over time improves the scalp conditions and leads to renewed hair growth. Spironolactone seems the safest of the bunch. Cyproterone acetate is extremely powerful but is not readily available, and finasteride, to me at least, is the most dangerous of all three.

Why? It messes up countless enzymes, in a way which often feels near permanent. And DHT, if you only read the actual literature, is essential. For brain health, orgasm function you name it. And it's not the culprit in hair loss.

The literature on 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors is becoming very sizeable.

As others have said, in the end we can convince ourselves of anything. So good luck to you.
 

SonOfEurope

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Agree @mrchibbs

Like OP I'm also of "Mediterranean" ancestry... If you consider North-East Spain, North Italy and West France as such... But only one great-grandfather of mine went fully bald and another one partially at the crown... Father just the entrance.

I was shedding badly two years ago at 26/27 but progesterone with low dose DHEA (and many lifestyle changes) have returned full coverage the voluminosity I had at 20 years old.

No feminization otherwise.... Actually the opposite.

Progesterone in a low dose, especially cycled, puts the interaction of DHT and E2 back in order, raises potassium in the cell, purifies excess copper in tissues and doesn't mess with Testosterone metabolism or atrociously run the 5Ar pathways, it in fact enhances 5ar but while calming the adrenals, adrenal androgens are terrible for hair.

Systemic deficiency of Vit. D among many is a factor, it's an enabler for many of Dopamine, Testosterone and Progesterone's rejuvenating actions when the system working coherently.
 

lvysaur

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That's funny because I hold Asian cultures in very high regard to the point where I sometimes jokingly refer to myself as an Asian-Supremacist :D. Anecdotally I've recently read online that finasteride is very popular in the east. Personally, I have primarily Mediterranean genetic ancestry and baldness runs in my family.
I've noticed that the most aggressive balding is often on people with a "Med" or "Middle Eastern" headshape, regardless of their ancestry. Long dolichocephalic head with a narrow jawline and a very prominent occipital bun. Seems like when somebody goes completely bald in their 20s, they usually have this headshape (converse isn't true, many people with this shape end up keeping great hair).

When wide-headed people go bald it seems like it usually happens over many decades, and they hit total baldness in their 40s or later.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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Agree @mrchibbs

Like OP I'm also of "Mediterranean" ancestry... If you consider North-East Spain, North Italy and West France as such... But only one great-grandfather of mine went fully bald and another one partially at the crown... Father just the entrance.

I was shedding badly two years ago at 26/27 but progesterone with low dose DHEA (and many lifestyle changes) have returned full coverage the voluminosity I had at 20 years old.

No feminization otherwise.... Actually the opposite.

Progesterone in a low dose, especially cycled, puts the interaction of DHT and E2 back in order, raises potassium in the cell, purifies excess copper in tissues and doesn't mess with Testosterone metabolism or atrociously run the 5Ar pathways, it in fact enhances 5ar but while calming the adrenals, adrenal androgens are terrible for hair.

Systemic deficiency of Vit. D among many is a factor, it's an enabler for many of Dopamine, Testosterone and Progesterone's rejuvenating actions when the system working coherently.

Great post!

This is the exact type of information I was trying to gather. I don’t think I ever fully understood the progesterone therapy angle. I have some topical that I purchased but I never really leveraged it correctly. It was just something I used intermittently when I wanted to calm things down a bit. I have more experience using Tyromix.

What dosage/cycling did you use? What dosage DHEA did you take? I’m interested in giving this a proper shot. I have a healthy lifestyle pretty well dialed in at this point in my life, I just feel like I’m still missing a piece somewhere. I get my temp taken all of time now because of C19 and it has been hovering around the mid 98s for the most part, so that’s a good sign. Historically my body temps have always been low.

Regarding vitamin D, I became a stickler about getting enough in early 2019 after catching a cold for the first time since like 2015. The only thing I had changed in my protocol is that I stopped supplementing vitamin D. Now I’m super careful to get enough.
 
OP
hominidnumber9
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I've noticed that the most aggressive balding is often on people with a "Med" or "Middle Eastern" headshape, regardless of their ancestry. Long dolichocephalic head with a narrow jawline and a very prominent occipital bun. Seems like when somebody goes completely bald in their 20s, they usually have this headshape (converse isn't true, many people with this shape end up keeping great hair).

BRUH, have you been spying on me?? :mad::D

This description reminds me of James Nestor's work in the book Breath which I don't want to get into here because it will completely derail this thread. I need to start a different topic for that book and discussions about breathing. The information in that book has been a game changer for me lately and I think it's a big reason why my body temps have gone up. C02/O2 balance can be finely tuned via breathwork. Raising C02 raises body temps. Over-breathing is harmful.
 
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OP
hominidnumber9
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does it "work"?

i would question that

You can't deny some people have great results with it. The reports are out there if you look for them, independent youtubers, forum posts, etc.

Every once in awhile though, that stuff lights a dumpster fire from the very first dose.
 

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