Why Does Copper Make Me Feel Awful?

[dishwashsoap]

Every time I ingest copper, be it in liver, shellfish, or supplemental form, I feel terrible. I get intensely brain-fogged, I get migraines, bad anxiety, my metabolic rate drops, and I just plain feel like death. Been struggling with this one for a long time, thought I'd see if any of you seasoned Peat eaters had any thoughts.

I had a copper serum and ceruloplasmin test done, both on the low side of normal. (Interestingly, Danny Roddy reported similar low numbers and experience with copper in this post:http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/5/mo-copper-mo-problems-why-i-was-wrong-about-copper.html) Then I had a hair mineral test done showing I had what they call too much 'bio-unavailable copper' meaning it's being stored in organs and not be utilized for some reason, likely they say, due to weak adrenals or lack of co-factors. This creates, they say, a simultaneous deficiency and toxicity. They recommended massive amounts of zinc, which I tried to little success. Though I found taking zinc resolves my acne issues, so I think a build up of copper is likely the reason I suffer from a functional zinc deficiency..

My pulse and temps are good, so I really don't think it's low-thyroid. Plus my experiments with thyroid didn't resolve the issue and just made me a little hyper-t. I eat plenty of carbs and protein. The reaction to copper is like an exaggerated version of a health problem I've had for a while now: living life in the illustrious 'brain fog'. Any ideas?

 

[jaguar43]

Every time I ingest copper, be it in liver, shellfish, or supplemental form, I feel terrible. I get intensely brain-fogged, I get migraines, bad anxiety, my metabolic rate drops, and I just plain feel like death. Been struggling with this one for a long time, thought I'd see if any of you seasoned Peat eaters had any thoughts.

I had a copper serum and ceruloplasmin test done, both on the low side of normal. (Interestingly, Danny Roddy reported similar low numbers and experience with copper in this post:http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/5/mo-copper-mo-problems-why-i-was-wrong-about-copper.html) Then I had a hair mineral test done showing I had what they call too much 'bio-unavailable copper' meaning it's being stored in organs and not be utilized for some reason, likely they say, due to weak adrenals or lack of co-factors. This creates, they say, a simultaneous deficiency and toxicity. They recommended massive amounts of zinc, which I tried to little success. Though I found taking zinc resolves my acne issues, so I think a build up of copper is likely the reason I suffer from a functional zinc deficiency..

My pulse and temps are good, so I really don't think it's low-thyroid. Plus my experiments with thyroid didn't resolve the issue and just made me a little hyper-t. I eat plenty of carbs and protein. The reaction to copper is like an exaggerated version of a health problem I've had for a while now: living life in the illustrious 'brain fog'. Any ideas?

So its not the copper itself, but a mechanism in your body that does not allow you to use copper.


Copper is essential to all living organisms as a trace dietary mineral because it is a key constituent of the respiratory enzyme complex cytochrome c oxidase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper

The complex contains two hemes, a cytochrome a and cytochrome a3, and two copper centers, the CuA and CuB centers.

Cyanide, sulfide, azide, and carbon monoxide[6] all bind to cytochrome c oxidase, thus competitively inhibiting the protein from functioning, which results in chemical asphyxiation of cells. Methanol in methylated spirits is converted into formic acid, which also inhibits the same oxidase system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_c_oxidase

So basically your blaming copper for your symptoms but in retrospect, other chemicals could inhibit your cytochrome c oxidase which will not allow you to use copper.

 

[Jenn]

How do you know its the copper in the food? Just curious...

 

[dishwashsoap]

Every time I ingest copper, be it in liver, shellfish, or supplemental form, I feel terrible. I get intensely brain-fogged, I get migraines, bad anxiety, my metabolic rate drops, and I just plain feel like death. Been struggling with this one for a long time, thought I'd see if any of you seasoned Peat eaters had any thoughts.

I had a copper serum and ceruloplasmin test done, both on the low side of normal. (Interestingly, Danny Roddy reported similar low numbers and experience with copper in this post:http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/5/mo-copper-mo-problems-why-i-was-wrong-about-copper.html) Then I had a hair mineral test done showing I had what they call too much 'bio-unavailable copper' meaning it's being stored in organs and not be utilized for some reason, likely they say, due to weak adrenals or lack of co-factors. This creates, they say, a simultaneous deficiency and toxicity. They recommended massive amounts of zinc, which I tried to little success. Though I found taking zinc resolves my acne issues, so I think a build up of copper is likely the reason I suffer from a functional zinc deficiency..

My pulse and temps are good, so I really don't think it's low-thyroid. Plus my experiments with thyroid didn't resolve the issue and just made me a little hyper-t. I eat plenty of carbs and protein. The reaction to copper is like an exaggerated version of a health problem I've had for a while now: living life in the illustrious 'brain fog'. Any ideas?

So its not the copper itself, but a mechanism in your body that does not allow you to use copper.


Copper is essential to all living organisms as a trace dietary mineral because it is a key constituent of the respiratory enzyme complex cytochrome c oxidase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper

The complex contains two hemes, a cytochrome a and cytochrome a3, and two copper centers, the CuA and CuB centers.

Cyanide, sulfide, azide, and carbon monoxide[6] all bind to cytochrome c oxidase, thus competitively inhibiting the protein from functioning, which results in chemical asphyxiation of cells. Methanol in methylated spirits is converted into formic acid, which also inhibits the same oxidase system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_c_oxidase

So basically your blaming copper for your symptoms but in retrospect, other chemicals could inhibit your cytochrome c oxidase which will not allow you to use copper.

I am not blaming copper. I have nothing against copper. Copper is good people. Me and copper go way back, all the way to childbirth. If I thought copper was bad for me, I wouldn't keep trying to ingest it. I'm aware it's possible that copper is not being utilized in my body, because that's what I wrote in my post. I assure you I've visited wikipedia page of copper and cytochrome c oxydase. I'll be sure to try and limit my exposure to cyanide and carbon monoxide. Thanks for the tip.

Jenn: I've replicated the same response with 2mg of supplemental copper.

 

[Mittir]

I think it is possible that your problem with copper supplement, liver and oysters
have different source but similar reactions.
Oysters are known for histamine poisoning.
RP reported having disturbed sleep after eating
liver. Vitamin A in liver can inhibit thyroid.
He used lot of saturated fat with liver to solve that problem.
Chicken liver is very low in copper and you can experiment with
chicken liver if you are sure copper is a problem.
I do not feel good when i eat big serving of liver.
I eat a small piece of liver fried in butter with a meal,
half oz to 1 oz piece. You only need 4-6 oz per week.

 

[cliff]

What happens if you eat chocolate, gelatin or potatoes?

 

[Jenn]

Oh, you mean happy foods?
You're not asking me, are you?<G>

 

[Jenn]

How do you do with coffee?
Do you take baths? (Not for cleanliness, but for relaxation)

 

[dishwashsoap]

Potatoes and gelatin and coffee: no problems.
Chocolate: I can handle within moderation.

Don't take baths.

 

[Jenn]

I would drink a much coffee as feels good to you then. Excess iron/heavy metals can really mess with copper.
I knew a fella who took a 3% salt bath for 40 minutes once. The water turned green. A salt bath can help with heavy metals too.

 

[dishwashsoap]

Jenn. Green! That is wild. I'll definitely try a salt bath. Iron overload/heavy metal toxicity are a real possibility. I have this funky reaction to every kind of supplemental selenium that seems detox-y: get very tired, headaches, strange taste in my mouth, brain fog gets worse, break out in weird faint rashes when I hit the shower. So that might be another tip-off. Or it could just be a reaction to the supplements / too much selenium...

My standard iron labs have always been within range, but I'll check out my ferritin and if it's high maybe I can try some phlebotomies? Do you you know any other ways to lower iron?

What about heavy metals? Anyone know of reliable tests? Or good ways (besides maintaining metabolic rate and a raw carrot) to detoxify? There is no health topic more convoluted on the internet than heavy metal toxicity, so I'm coming at this with definite suspicion, but it's finally time to look into it seriously.

Thank you.

 

[jyb]

I think RP says things like coffee help protect against heavy metal toxicity. But not sure if it removes it from the body. For example if the brain accumulated aluminium in the brain, I'm not sure if coffee and improving metabolic rate merely helps to protect against its effect, or gradually helps the removal too.

 

[jb116]

I doubt it's Wilson's disease but did you have that tested and ruled out?

 

[TeslaFan]

Your body probably does not need extra Copper. Also, increasing Copper will reduce Zinc, and Zinc deficiency is several orders of magnitude more likely than Copper deficiency, in modern diet.
Your body's reaction to adding more Copper is probably also trying to tell you that.

 

[Parsifal]

I wonder why some people think that copper is very bad or that it is oestrogenic?

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Globeuv or whatever his name was had some interesting posts saying that heavy metals mimic copper in the body and keep copper stored in the liver, so excess copper and iron intake can eventually load up the liver and impair it, and he says the only way out is to chelate the heavy metals, which can be dangerous.