Why Does Cascara Sagrada & Magnesium Irritate My Butthole?

cout12

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So basically without it I am constipated, I have a BM every 2 days, which I could live with, but it's not great. My butthole feels great though.

When I try to make my stool softer and have a BM once a day using magnesium citrate or cascara sagrada, my stool get soft and I can have a BM once a day, but my butthole gets irritated. If I take it more than a few days in a row it'll get really painful and resemble hemorrhoids or anal fissure or something like that I'm not really sure. If I stop it'll heal and get back to normal but I won't be able to have BM more than every 2 days.

Why is that?
 

XPlus

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In my experience, the health natura cascara does that exact graphic description as you pointed out.
But eventually, I feel better after using it for a while.
Recently I tried some cascara from an Italian source who claims that it is as good as farmalabor's.
It's different. I get the same relief without the pain.
It also doesn't taste as bitter.
 

Mittir

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RP cautioned that commercial oral magnesium supplement can cause Hemorrhoids.
He recommends epsom salt bath and natural magnesium from leafy green vegetable broth.
I use vegetable fruit broth for magnesium and potassium.
 
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Derek

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Magnesium supplements help you poop by irritating the intestines and increasing serotonin, or by opposing calcium. Cascara is good for absorbing toxins and bulking up stools, but it can't be taken continuously. Your diet usually has the biggest impact on bowel movements. I would try switching your diet around or trying to identify the foods that may be causing the constipation, then there wouldn't be much need for laxatives and bowel stimulants.
 

answersfound

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Derek said:
Magnesium supplements help you poop by irritating the intestines and increasing serotonin, or by opposing calcium. Cascara is good for absorbing toxins and bulking up stools, but it can't be taken continuously. Your diet usually has the biggest impact on bowel movements. I would try switching your diet around or trying to identify the foods that may be causing the constipation, then there wouldn't be much need for laxatives and bowel stimulants.


Note to OP: This post contains information that is contrary to Ray's beliefs.

Ray has not stated that a proper magnesium supplement creates a bowel movement through intestinal irritation. Magnesium pulls water into the colon and relaxes the intestine and that is what produces a bowel movement.
 
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Derek

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answersfound said:
post 112085
Derek said:
Magnesium supplements help you poop by irritating the intestines and increasing serotonin, or by opposing calcium. Cascara is good for absorbing toxins and bulking up stools, but it can't be taken continuously. Your diet usually has the biggest impact on bowel movements. I would try switching your diet around or trying to identify the foods that may be causing the constipation, then there wouldn't be much need for laxatives and bowel stimulants.


Note to OP: This post contains information that is contrary to Ray's beliefs.

Ray has not stated that a proper magnesium supplement creates a bowel movement through intestinal irritation. Magnesium pulls water into the colon and relaxes the intestine and that is what produces a bowel movement.

Well if were talking about oral magnesium supplements, that is precisely how they induce bowel movements. Ray has told me through emails that oral magnesium supplements are some of the most irritating substances to the intestines. And if you're talking about epsom salt baths and mag oil, true it doesn't irritate the intestines. But the OP is taking mag citrate orally.
 
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Makrosky

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Derek said:
answersfound said:
post 112085
Derek said:
Magnesium supplements help you poop by irritating the intestines and increasing serotonin, or by opposing calcium. Cascara is good for absorbing toxins and bulking up stools, but it can't be taken continuously. Your diet usually has the biggest impact on bowel movements. I would try switching your diet around or trying to identify the foods that may be causing the constipation, then there wouldn't be much need for laxatives and bowel stimulants.


Note to OP: This post contains information that is contrary to Ray's beliefs.

Ray has not stated that a proper magnesium supplement creates a bowel movement through intestinal irritation. Magnesium pulls water into the colon and relaxes the intestine and that is what produces a bowel movement.

Well if were talking about oral magnesium supplements, that is precisely how they induce bowel movements. Ray has told me through emails that oral magnesium supplements are some of the most irritating substances to the intestines. And if you're talking about epsom salt baths and mag oil, true it doesn't irritate the intestines. But the OP is taking mag citrate orally.

What???? Oral magnesium is irritating to the intestibe?? I think i've heard Peat stating magnesium carbonate as safe.

Derek whenever you claim such things it's better to provide evidence. Your anecdotal experience is just... Anecdotal.
 
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Derek

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Makrosky said:
post 112096
Derek said:
answersfound said:
post 112085
Derek said:
Magnesium supplements help you poop by irritating the intestines and increasing serotonin, or by opposing calcium. Cascara is good for absorbing toxins and bulking up stools, but it can't be taken continuously. Your diet usually has the biggest impact on bowel movements. I would try switching your diet around or trying to identify the foods that may be causing the constipation, then there wouldn't be much need for laxatives and bowel stimulants.


Note to OP: This post contains information that is contrary to Ray's beliefs.

Ray has not stated that a proper magnesium supplement creates a bowel movement through intestinal irritation. Magnesium pulls water into the colon and relaxes the intestine and that is what produces a bowel movement.

Well if were talking about oral magnesium supplements, that is precisely how they induce bowel movements. Ray has told me through emails that oral magnesium supplements are some of the most irritating substances to the intestines. And if you're talking about epsom salt baths and mag oil, true it doesn't irritate the intestines. But the OP is taking mag citrate orally.

What???? Oral magnesium is irritating to the intestibe?? I think i've heard Peat stating magnesium carbonate as safe.

Derek whenever you claim such things it's better to provide evidence. Your anecdotal experience is just... Anecdotal.

He says it is safe as long as it doesn't contain impurities and contaminants. So what does that really mean? How can you tell if it has contaminants and manufacturing impurities, other than by how you react to it. He has told me he really doesn't recommend any magnesium supplements because they are very irritating/allergenic. He recommends coffee, chocolate, leafy greens/broth, etc.. Maybe someone else who has heard him say this will chime in.

What good is it for me to post a study saying oral magnesium causes hemorrhoids in rats? I don't know what that really will prove/solve. The evidence came from the OP who stated that oral magnesium is giving him hemorrhoids, that's enough proof for me, I don't know about you though.
 
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Makrosky

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Derek,

So the problem is not the magnesium but the impurities that it might contain, right? You know what? MOST supplements have impurities. Ray generally advises agsinst all supplements because of impurities. So your statement is totally out of context.

A rat study? Oh well... How many rat studies does Ray cite on his writings? Dozens? A hundred?
 
D

Derek

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Makrosky said:
post 112099 Derek,

So the problem is not the magnesium but the impurities that it might contain, right? You know what? MOST supplements have impurities. Ray generally advises agsinst all supplements because of impurities. So your statement is totally out of context.

A rat study? Oh well... How many rat studies does Ray cite on his writings? Dozens? A hundred?

So if most supplements contain impurities and ray recommends against all supplements because of this, why would you think supplemental magnesium is safe or Peat approved? I don't understand your reasoning there.

Yes, he values rat studies; I do not. I have went back and forth with him on the validity/credibility of these studies and how applicable they really are to humans/real life settings. I agree with Ray on a lot of issues, this is one area I do not. I'm allowed to disagree aren't I?
 
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OP
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cout12

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Derek said:
post 112092 Ray has told me through emails that oral magnesium supplements are some of the most irritating substances to the intestines.
Ok that makes sense, what about the cascara sagrada? It gives me seemingly the same effect. Why is that?

And I know that diet is important, but I keep trying to change stuff since the last 2 years and it seems like everything either constipates me or irritates me. I remember when I was eating mostly vegetables, fruits and meat my BM were perfect and often.

Would leafy broths help with my constipation? What about magnesium oil or Epsom salt bath?
 
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Makrosky

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Derek said:
post 112104
Makrosky said:
post 112099 Derek,

So the problem is not the magnesium but the impurities that it might contain, right? You know what? MOST supplements have impurities. Ray generally advises agsinst all supplements because of impurities. So your statement is totally out of context.

A rat study? Oh well... How many rat studies does Ray cite on his writings? Dozens? A hundred?

So if most supplements contain impurities and ray recommends against all supplements because of this, why would you think supplemental magnesium is safe or Peat approved? I don't understand your reasoning there.

Yes, he values rat studies; I do not. I have went back and forth with him on the validity/credibility of these studies and how applicable they really are to humans/real life settings. I agree with Ray on a lot of issues, this is one area I do not. I'm allowed to disagree aren't I?

Don't feel like perpetuating the magnesium discussion. I already stated my point and it doesn't benefit the OP.

I often disagree, but I try to present my desagreement either providing evidence or stating somehow that it's a personal opinion based on intuition. I think you didn't do any of the two this time and hence my rant.

:geek:
 
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Derek

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cout12 said:
post 112106
Derek said:
post 112092 Ray has told me through emails that oral magnesium supplements are some of the most irritating substances to the intestines.
Ok that makes sense, what about the cascara sagrada? It gives me seemingly the same effect. Why is that?

And I know that diet is important, but I keep trying to change stuff since the last 2 years and it seems like everything either constipates me or irritates me. I remember when I was eating mostly vegetables, fruits and meat my BM were perfect and often.

Would leafy broths help with my constipation? What about magnesium oil or Epsom salt bath?

I don't have much experience with cascara personally, probably good info about it on this site if you search. I would think it's causing hemorrhoids by irritating your intestines. When you are constantly changing your diet, your body doesn't have time to adjust and maintain balance, so you likely are going to have digestive/bowel issues. Getting in a routine/habit of eating can help to normalize bowel function. If your bowel movements were good while eating fruit, vegetables and meat, why the change? Was that diet causing some other issue?

I don't think the broths would directly help with constipation, but they are a good magnesium source. Ray told me that he actually gets a headache from magnesium oil and that he thinks there are impurities, lol. But I guess that or epsom salts would be better than oral magnesium. If you have to take oral magnesium, the glycinate form is probably best.
 
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milk_lover

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Derek said:
post 112117 Ray told me that he actually gets a headache from magnesium oil and that he thinks there are impurities, lol.
When I use more than 15 sprays of magnesium oil (that's 270mg of elemental magnesium according to the serving info on the bottle), the blood rushes to my head and it's pulsing, why is that? Is it the magnesium or the chloride? I drink milk (500ml) and that problem disappears.. I just use fewer sprays now.
 
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cout12

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Derek said:
post 112117 If your bowel movements were good while eating fruit, vegetables and meat, why the change? Was that diet causing some other issue?
I had very little energy, was always cold and had joint pain and mentally I was a lot more stressed. It seems that the digestion was the only thing that was amazing about it. Then I read about ray peat and I tried it and I feel better on it, even if my digestion sucks it still feels better. And ray says to eat meat only once a day and to avoid vegetables and most fruits so that's what I do.

I was eating potatoes and rice for a while and that wasn't great, I always smelled like undigested milk.

So now I eat no starches. Just milk, OJ, sugar, some beef twice a day, carrots, cocoa powder, coffee, liver. I was eating gelatin and cheese for a while but it seems to make my constipation worse. I'd love to eat more solid & varied food but I don't know what to eat other than that. Maybe real fruits would help? I haven't tried that in a while.
 
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milk_lover

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cheat couts. It helps sometimes forget about food structure and don't stress so much and eat whatever you really like. Squat when you go to the bathroom. Does the cascara you use look dark brown or light brown?
 

Brian

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I don't have any experience with cascara, but plenty with magnesium:

Magnesium supplements on an empty stomach orally all irritate my GI tract. There's bloating and a little pain. This is especially true with oral magnesium chloride. I would guess it's the chloride, because sodium chloride on its own is also very irritating to the stomach and intestine, but with food there is no problem.

The best magnesium supplements I've tried are magnesium bicarbonate water and magnesium glycinate pills (I believe only Albion has the patent for the only real magnesium glycinate chelation, so all powders claiming to be magnesium glycinate are probably just magnesium oxide and glycine.) Bicarbonate works well without food, but glycinate is best with food.
 

milk_lover

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Brian said:
post 112161 Magnesium supplements on an empty stomach orally all irritate my GI tract. There's bloating and a little pain. This is especially true with oral magnesium chloride. I would guess it's the chloride, because sodium chloride on its own is also very irritating to the stomach and intestine, but with food there is no problem.
Does this also apply to transdermal application of magnesium chloride?
 
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Brian

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milk_lover said:
post 112162
Brian said:
post 112161 Magnesium supplements on an empty stomach orally all irritate my GI tract. There's bloating and a little pain. This is especially true with oral magnesium chloride. I would guess it's the chloride, because sodium chloride on its own is also very irritating to the stomach and intestine, but with food there is no problem.
Does this also apply to transdermal application of magnesium chloride?

Not, not at all in my experience. If a lot absorbs I get sleepy and sometimes need to take a nap. I usually wake up feeling very relaxed afterwards. I notice that in order for magnesium chloride to absorb I need to be sweating, so it would seem that magnesium enters through the pores.
 
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Brian

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Mittir said:
post 112076 RP cautioned that commercial oral magnesium supplement can cause Hemorrhoids.
He recommends epsom salt bath and natural magnesium from leafy green vegetable broth.
I use vegetable fruit broth for magnesium and potassium.

I'm also a big fan of leaf broths combined with fruit juice. Definitely my favorite food magnesium source. It seems to be absorbed extremely well. It puts me right to sleep.
 
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