Why Do Some Things That Increase Dopamine Down Regulate Receptors While Others Don’t?

[Cydanic]

What separates something that only increases production vs something that increases production yet downregulates the receptors?

 

[lexis]

A person of hatred need not be optimistic. One cause.

 

[sladerunner69]

Receptor theory is not fully understood and Ray Peat talks about receptors as being less important than the full energy structure of the cell. Thus, certain things which boost dopamine but hurt metabolism will "downregulate" receptors, as you put it. Things that promote generative energy will "upregulate" receptors because they are being supported. I think the receptors are not independent of the cell, but are integral to and regulated by the cells themselves.

Does this make sense? I'm sure someone could explain this better than I.

 

[Cydanic]

Receptor theory is not fully understood and Ray Peat talks about receptors as being less important than the full energy structure of the cell. Thus, certain things which boost dopamine but hurt metabolism will "downregulate" receptors, as you put it. Things that promote generative energy will "upregulate" receptors because they are being supported. I think the receptors are not independent of the cell, but are integral to and regulated by the cells themselves.

Does this make sense? I'm sure someone could explain this better than I.

Somewhat yes. It definitely seems like something that should be further explored because I think dopamine levels might be the single most important metric to living a happy and fulfilling life.

I would argue that caffeine is one of the most pro-metabolic things that boosts dopamine, but the feeling when you quit cold turkey would indicate receptor downregulation.

 

[sladerunner69]

Somewhat yes. It definitely seems like something that should be further explored because I think dopamine levels might be the single most important metric to living a happy and fulfilling life.

I would argue that caffeine is one of the most pro-metabolic things that boosts dopamine, but the feeling when you quit cold turkey would indicate receptor downregulation.

If you read what Peat wrote about chemical withdrawal and caffeine, you might see things differently. He described a withdrawal as a psychological effect produced in pursuit of a physical stimulus that the organism's biology had adapted to, seeking to return to that state of stability to which it had become accustomed. Thus, even a lack of beneficial substances like coffee, food, vitamins, and even bright light could cause withdrawal symptoms.

Coffee is of course more stimulating that most foods and vitamins, but it is also chemically very similar in structure to thyroid hormone, which will increase mood through dopamine stimulation, but also by its own merits. I don't believe that biochemistry is as simple as a few neurosteroids, the best approach is to promote generative energy through thyroid, nutrients, carbs, caffeine, etc in order to maintain dopamine strength which anagonizes serotonin spikes.

Coffee has been shown to down regulate serotonin production as well as increase dopamine receptors, as well. I think the tiredness and brain fog I experience when I don't have it is withdrawal from the stimulation, but not a sign that it is downregulating dopamine, in fact it is likely the opposite.

 

[dabdabdab]

If you read what Peat wrote about chemical withdrawal and caffeine, you might see things differently. He described a withdrawal as a psychological effect produced in pursuit of a physical stimulus that the organism's biology had adapted to, seeking to return to that state of stability to which it had become accustomed. Thus, even a lack of beneficial substances like coffee, food, vitamins, and even bright light could cause withdrawal symptoms.

Coffee is of course more stimulating that most foods and vitamins, but it is also chemically very similar in structure to thyroid hormone, which will increase mood through dopamine stimulation, but also by its own merits. I don't believe that biochemistry is as simple as a few neurosteroids, the best approach is to promote generative energy through thyroid, nutrients, carbs, caffeine, etc in order to maintain dopamine strength which anagonizes serotonin spikes.

Coffee has been shown to down regulate serotonin production as well as increase dopamine receptors, as well. I think the tiredness and brain fog I experience when I don't have it is withdrawal from the stimulation, but not a sign that it is downregulating dopamine, in fact it is likely the opposite.

so you can concentrate and focus while experiencing a coffee withdrawal? also with your first paragraph, how peat explains the reason behind serotonin being produced in the organism? what's the porpuse? what body is going to compensate for by producing serotonin and other inflammatory substances?