Why do some Carnivores experience such good results?

[Rinse & rePeat]

I agree, depends on the kind of fibre and even more on ones microbiom.
I am still wondering if it is a sign of an intestinal problem that I can very well digest meat, milk, oranges
but bloat easily on fruit vegetables and vegetables.

I think it can also be a matter of what your body is use to. Ray says it takes about two weeks for the body to adapt to a new food. When I was in my 20’s broccoli use to get my stomach rumbling, so I avoided it, but then in my 40’s I ate it more and after, not too long, it didn’t do anything to me anymore. Then there are different kinds of fiber to consider. Oat bran is gonna be a mop, and like glue it is gonna pick up debris that would otherwise ferment and carry it out of the body. Take something like artichoke hearts, which is high in fiber and I eat often, and it is gonna act like an antibiotic, but something like fruit peels is gonna feed bacteria. So it isn’t that fiber in itself is bad, but more of what purpose it serves that makes it questionable.

 

[Validus]

I know all the potential negative long term results of a carnivore diet.
But then why are some people experiencing very good results long term on a carnivore diet.
Better hair, teeth, energy, mood and so much more.

I am not a proponent of a carnivore diet, I am eating very pro-metabolic
but I want to understand where those results come from.

By long term I mean for example 3 years in....

Imo it's likely that they are eliminating something they're allergic or sensitive to. Another possibility is bacterial overgrowth that's controlled by starving their food source.

Different strokes for different folks. There's no one size fits all Diet, even for the same person who may change as they age.

 

[FrankMa]

I think it can also be a matter of what your body is use to. Ray says it takes about two weeks for the body to adapt to a new food. When I was in my 20’s broccoli use to get my stomach rumbling, so I avoided it, but then in my 40’s I ate it more and after, not too long, it didn’t do anything to me anymore. Then there are different kinds of fiber to consider. Oat bran is gonna be a mop, and like glue it is gonna pick up debris that would otherwise ferment and carry it out of the body. Take something like artichoke hearts, which is high in fiber and I eat often, and it is gonna act like an antibiotic, but something like fruit peels is gonna feed bacteria. So it isn’t that fiber in itself is bad, but more of what purpose it serves that makes it questionable.

Thanks for that input.
I haven`t experimented with fibre a lot. I tried the "good fibre" in Foodmap nutrition but most of them make me bloat.
So maybe I should try different foods for 2 weeks before making a decision.
Judged by feeling and blood work I am doing good but Rays recent turn away from basically all animal food made me think
about it. He still adheres to his principles like avoiding the inflammatory aminoc acids, low iron uptake, high calcium to phosphor ratio but I still don`t understand his recent turn comprehensively.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks for that input.
I haven`t experimented with fibre a lot. I tried the "good fibre" in Foodmap nutrition but most of them make me bloat.
So maybe I should try different foods for 2 weeks before making a decision.
Judged by feeling and blood work I am doing good but Rays recent turn away from basically all animal food made me think
about it. He still adheres to his principles like avoiding the inflammatory aminoc acids, low iron uptake, high calcium to phosphor ratio but I still don`t understand his recent turn comprehensively.

He uses oats as a short term tool. What one would need at 30 and 40 is different than what one would need at 80. I imagine oat bran is a better swap than stool softeners and psyllium husks. He is 80 and sedentary,

 

[Blossom]

You are defintely not the only one feeling best by eating that "special" way.
Yes, starches are cheap and you can make delicious food out of it but like you
I don`t do good by eating starches.
Unfortunately good meat is very expensive; in addition to that iron accumaltion could be a problem
but one could at least theoretically cope with iron absorption by having coffe with meat.
Since I started incorporating meat before some time I do regular iron panel blood work like 2-3 times per year;
so far nothing to worry about.

My iron panel was perfect at the 1.5 year mark so I don’t think that is too much of a concern. Of course it’s good to check it periodically.

 

[FrankMa]

My iron panel was perfect at the 1.5 year mark so I don’t think that is too much of a concern. Of course it’s good to check it periodically.

Peridically checking makes sense.
Did you do a comprehensive iron panel?

 

[FrankMa]

My iron panel was perfect at the 1.5 year mark so I don’t think that is too much of a concern. Of course it’s good to check it periodically.

Sure, as a short term band aid it makes sense.
I am under the impression that everything in nutrition changes if you move a lot; not like exhausting yourself in the gym,
but just moving yourself outside in fresh air, walking a lot, doing some bodyweight movements....

 

[Blossom]

Peridically checking makes sense.
Did you do a comprehensive iron panel?

Yes, I did a complete iron panel and got input from someone here who I feel is more knowledgeable about iron than I am.
I also do a lot of walking/hiking outside.

 

[FrankMa]

Yes, I did a complete iron panel and got input from someone here who I feel is more knowledgeable about iron than I am.
I also do a lot of walking/hiking outside.

So you feel good eating meat, your blood work is good eating meat, you feel worse when you eat omnivore,
so why not keep on your previous meat diet?

 

[Momentum]

After studying and experimenting with different diets for over 40 years I absolutely believe that no one diet is best. I've always been a protein avoider - since childhood. At one point, desperate to lose some baby weight and feel better I went on an all greens, plus one protein diet. Doctor assisted with a group. Salad and protein. After three days of sugar withdrawal everyone else was starting to feel great and losing weight. I was not. By day 28 I had lost only 2 pounds and was so depleted I was in bed all day. Everyone else was feeling awesome.

I did so many different diets.
Then the way I lost weight and FELT BETTER (15 years ago) was eating a small amount of protein, and very high fiber foods, resistant starches, ACV or lemon juice with each meal. I knew I needed grains and researched the lowest one (that I liked) and decided on barley (which I would cook al dente, retrograde overnight in the fridge and eat as an oatmeal type breakfast).
Fast forward to the carnivore craze, and I have a friend who for the first time in her life is losing weight and feeling well. At one point she did a 6 week 500 calorie restricted diet - and basically lost nothing. (However those 500 calories were moderate in glucose).
She encouraged me to try. Within two weeks I was very sick.

Going over my genome, I have problems with PKU (get migraines from aspartame). My PKU is not severe, but it's definitely a clue.
Then I was diagnosed with a milder form of MMA - again a genetic mutation that doesn't do well with protein.
(I also have to eat low oxalate, again due to genetically not clearing them well and having EDS)

I now know why I do horrible on a carnivore diet - my genetics.

But my friend: well she has lost 100 pounds and feels great. She's about 90% carnivore, eating a few thousand calories a day, post menopause. This woman could not lose weight on 500 calories a day of whatever protein drink her doc prescribed 20 years ago (pre menopause). I really believe that for her (and me) if our blood sugar spikes we don't lose weight. And neither of us are diabetic or even pre-diabetic. So she can do carnivore (low carb) and lose weight and feel better. While I stay low protein and low carb and lose weight and feel better.

Everyone is different. I don't believe we can shoe box everyone into one diet.

 

[Blossom]

So you feel good eating meat, your blood work is good eating meat, you feel worse when you eat omnivore,
so why not keep on your previous meat diet?

I’m seriously considering it.

 

[Blossom]

Peridically checking makes sense.
Did you do a comprehensive iron panel?

Also I’m post menopause and don’t weigh enough to donate blood so I was concerned my iron would be high but wasn’t.

 

[FrankMa]

After studying and experimenting with different diets for over 40 years I absolutely believe that no one diet is best. I've always been a protein avoider - since childhood. At one point, desperate to lose some baby weight and feel better I went on an all greens, plus one protein diet. Doctor assisted with a group. Salad and protein. After three days of sugar withdrawal everyone else was starting to feel great and losing weight. I was not. By day 28 I had lost only 2 pounds and was so depleted I was in bed all day. Everyone else was feeling awesome.

I did so many different diets.
Then the way I lost weight and FELT BETTER (15 years ago) was eating a small amount of protein, and very high fiber foods, resistant starches, ACV or lemon juice with each meal. I knew I needed grains and researched the lowest one (that I liked) and decided on barley (which I would cook al dente, retrograde overnight in the fridge and eat as an oatmeal type breakfast).
Fast forward to the carnivore craze, and I have a friend who for the first time in her life is losing weight and feeling well. At one point she did a 6 week 500 calorie restricted diet - and basically lost nothing. (However those 500 calories were moderate in glucose).
She encouraged me to try. Within two weeks I was very sick.

Going over my genome, I have problems with PKU (get migraines from aspartame). My PKU is not severe, but it's definitely a clue.
Then I was diagnosed with a milder form of MMA - again a genetic mutation that doesn't do well with protein.
(I also have to eat low oxalate, again due to genetically not clearing them well and having EDS)

I now know why I do horrible on a carnivore diet - my genetics.

But my friend: well she has lost 100 pounds and feels great. She's about 90% carnivore, eating a few thousand calories a day, post menopause. This woman could not lose weight on 500 calories a day of whatever protein drink her doc prescribed 20 years ago (pre menopause). I really believe that for her (and me) if our blood sugar spikes we don't lose weight. And neither of us are diabetic or even pre-diabetic. So she can do carnivore (low carb) and lose weight and feel better. While I stay low protein and low carb and lose weight and feel better.

Everyone is different. I don't believe we can shoe box everyone into one diet.

Thanks for the interesting post.
From time to time I have considered genetics in regards to nutrition but never followed that thinking because of Peats
teachings.
My father has always been eating very much meat, he did not follow any diet but after getting divorced from my mother
he basically went to the butcher once per week to buy a load of meat and sausages and some cheese; besides that he had a big box of apples in the cellar; that`s it.
When I was with him on the weekends I basically binged on liverwurst and sausages and apples, I did not feel like I was missing anything; at these days people were just eating, not following any diet.
Interesteingly I was known for my muscular body and that I was good in basically any sports. But my grandfatter, my father, my uncles were even way better; so maybe my appearance is just genetic luck and has not to do anything with my nutrition.

Consider though that my father died very young at the age of 72.
Has it to do with his nutrition? Maybe, but he drank a lot of alcohol and had a hard life after WW II.
I remember that he told me that even in winter they had no heating because of burning wood was not available:
they had icicle in the room where they were sleeping.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I am still wondering if it is a sign of an intestinal problem that I can very well digest meat, milk, oranges
but bloat easily on fruit vegetables and vegetables.

I bloat on anything, but some well steamed broccoli with salt and lemon every now and then feels nourishing to the digestive system.

 

[Momentum]

Thanks for the interesting post.
From time to time I have considered genetics in regards to nutrition but never followed that thinking because of Peats
teachings.

I resisted genetic testing in general for the longest time. My primary belief was "just get healthy: diet, exercise, detox, etc" Well, that didn't work for me - almost 40 years of trying and IDK, maybe $250k gone (on sups, treatments, alt docs, etc). It's really been seeing my mutations (which are primarily heterozygous, not homozygous - so most docs wouldn't pay attention) and addressing those short comings, or doing some bio-hacking that I'm making progress.
I'm thrilled for my friend who is doing so well on 90% carni. It just won't work for me, and genetically I know why.

 

[SamYo123]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CgFHWCfrFdh/?hl=en

 

[Don]

Eliminating some foods that cause inflammation, Placebo and they are all high running high on cortisol and adrenaline. I think for most it will catch up with them eventually.

 

[yerrag]

Interesting discussion.

My limited good results with what would be called carnivore is taking beef jerky with me on long driving trips. Those trips gave me a good impression of eating solely meat.

Then, I had poor blood agar regulation and 3 hours after a meal I would be hypoglycemic. But I had zero knowledge then on hypoglycemia given that nobody goes to a doctor with a diagnosis of hypoglycemia.

Now, my blood sugar regulation has been good for a long time already. Not perfect by the way. I'm looking at my blood test history dating back 20 years and I realize so many factors affect good sugar metabolism. It's hard enough maintaining good sugar metabolism even if I know more than most people on enabling good sugar metabolism.

I think it's easier for many people with poor sugar metabolism to rely on protein to provide sugar for the body than by the body directly ingesting and assimilating sugar. This is especially true for civilized society and less true for primitive society.

The difference is in the miseducation and reliance on experts who serve as useful idiots to perpetuate wrong ideas that is characteristic of modern society, especially Westers society. It's only because Western society is simply on the leading edge. And being on the bleeding edge means only the society is also more advanced in gaming ita own systems. The smokes and mirrors is so sophisticated that reality is replaced by virtuality. COVID is the prime example.

So, because we can't properly absorb and metabolize a ĺarge bolus of sugar in a meal that includes plenty of carbs disposes us to resorting to a meal that dispenses with carbs.

This way you don't deal with an insulin reaction that results from high blood sugar (due to the poor tissue absorption of sugar after a meal) whicheck leads to high fat production. You also don't deal with the blood sugar dropping to hypoglycemic levels from the same insulin response. Which makes you sleepy and prone to getting sick.

You just rely on adrenaline and cortisol to signal the body to convert protein to sugar which isn't prone to flooding the body with sugar.

So you're feeling well as a result.

Three years is a long time. I'd give it more before the creaks fall apart.

Continually relying on cortisol which is stress hormone- can this be good? Will your thymus continue to make mature t-lymphocytes? What will happen to your immunity without T-lymphocytes?

That is just one aspect I'm touching.

 

[yerrag]

Here is a low-carb presentation. He is on point mostly. But his flaw is that he attributes to the SAD diet heavy on grains, added sugars, and plant oils to high triglycerides, high insulin, and low HDL to the modern diseases of diabetes, heart attacks, and cancer. And thereby proposes a diet high on meat and animal fats, much like a carnivore diet:


View: https://youtu.be/qXtdp4BNyOg


Try to find the flaw in his reasoning.

 

[joaquin]

@yerrag
What is the takeaway of the Dr. Nadir Ali? (didn't have 17 minutes to watch it)