Why Do People Think New Coronavirus Is A Normal Flu?

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The hospital that was supposed to be one of the main centers for treating people with COVID in Rio de Janeiro is empty. Where are all these infected people? Same thing in New York. Thankfully, people are filming their local hospitals to see if the media are being honest. Not to mention all the wifi towers being installed in the USA. As if regular wifi wasn't damaging enough.
This is a video (in portuguese) showing that the hospital isn't overflowing with infected people:


Why is the media not telling us this? Why are police officers arresting people for walking on the beach? Things just don't seem to add up. Politicians are also saying that people who are worried about 5g are believing fake news.

This video below shows how the ways that the agencies use to predict deaths from diseases are off. An agency in Brazil called ABIN said that by April 6th, the number of deaths from covid would be 5571. Yesterday was April 6th, and the actual number turned out to be much lower: 486. Hum... their prediction is more than 10 times higher than what the REAL number is:

This site post, which was from March 24th, was pretty much fearmongering people, saying that thousands of people would die by april 6th, and 20% of the ICUs would be full by this day. Well, that prediction didn't age well:
Exclusivo: Bolsonaro ignora alerta da Abin sobre 5,5 mil mortos por coronavírus

I saw a graph in the video( the time on the video is 10: 33) showing that the flu in 2016 in Italy has been significantly worse than this corona virus is right now, but where is the publicity around this information? Why no lockdowns during that flu? Why so much panic? Obviously, the governments all over the world have some other reason/ reasons to do this, and I don't think it is due to the virus. This virus seems to be just a bad flu.
 

tankasnowgod

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Why is the media not telling us this? Why are police officers arresting people for walking on the beach? Things just don't seem to add up.

I can't speak for everyone, but I live in a beach city, near-ish to some of those stories of people getting arrested in the US. Supposedly, they have "closed" the beach. Although I have not even seen one person be talked to by a police officer, with the exception of the first day of the "closure." That officer was stationed near the bike path, and was politely telling people that it was closed. Haven't seen any other action of that nature since. I wouldn't doubt some of those stories of arrests were "staged." At least in the US, they want people afraid, more than anything else. I think all those orders fall under the "color of law," meaning that you have to accept it for it to be enforceable. I don't think they really want to make a big push arresting people under such orders.
 
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I can't speak for everyone, but I live in a beach city, near-ish to some of those stories of people getting arrested in the US. Supposedly, they have "closed" the beach. Although I have not even seen one person be talked to by a police officer, with the exception of the first day of the "closure." That officer was stationed near the bike path, and was politely telling people that it was closed. Haven't seen any other action of that nature since. I wouldn't doubt some of those stories of arrests were "staged." At least in the US, they want people afraid, more than anything else. I think all those orders fall under the "color of law," meaning that you have to accept it for it to be enforceable. I don't think they really want to make a big push arresting people under such orders.
Hopefully the police remains like that over there.

This is from yesterday. Two women were arrested for breaking the new rules in Rio de Janeiro: Mulheres descumprem isolamento social e desacatam PMs na praia de Icaraí; vídeo

Whether staged or not, I think incidents like these indeed make the population more afraid, and easier to control too.
 

tara

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is estimated as low as 0.5% to 0.04%.
Even if it was as low as 0.5, (and it's far from proven), it would still be significant.

This particular mutation of the family of Corona Viruses (which have been going around the planet for decades, at least)
This SARS-COV2 emerged publicly end of 2019. It's possible it began a little before that. But there's no reason to think it's been around a lot longer.

Also USA seems to have record low mortality
Seems predictable that the restrictions would reduce some other kinds of mortality in the short term.
Should see fewer flus etc, fewer severe accidents, etc.

Assuming it doubles that rate in the summer months (which no other disease ever has)
AIUI, polio for one tended to summertime epidemics.

What do you mean? For instance Sweden has not done any quarantine and many other european countries don't limit movement even if some business and school are shut down. And still europe has record low mortality.
Watch that space.
Lol. This is just an ad hominem argument. Trying to psychoanalyze people online is dumb and is a sign you're losing the argument
+1
I do worry a little bit bc my dad is in the demographic to be most affected (elderly, with hypertension). So when people say "just old people with underlying conditions are dying ", well I have family who fit that category who I wish to live.
+1.
Most people are either old or have old parents or grandparents. And if they don't have underlying health conditions themselves, they know people who do. It sounds really callous to me when people seem to say the epidemic isn't a big deal because it mainly gets old and unwell people.

I have no doubt there is a real epidemic that is really overwhelming some hospitals and will overwhelm more.
Slowing down the spread is one of the most effective ways to reduce the fast overwhelm.
The US just doubled deaths in 5 days. Keep that up (no, don't!), and you get to 100 000 in less than 3 weeks. Serious physical distancing and serious hygiene and testing and contact tracing etc can probably bring that down.
For arguments sake, even if NY was totally overwhelmed, it's only one city in one state in one country.
Some people learn from other people's mistakes. Some people assume it can't happen to them.
The quarantine isn't even designed to save a single life...... it was merely to "redistribute" cases from one month to another, so as not to overwhelm hospitals.
Spreading the load is intended to save lives. If you're going to die without ICU or a respirator, and getting access to them has a chance of saving your life, then spreading the load improves everyone's odds.

I have been reading in horror as people deny deny deny. ...I feel that people have taken their (reasonable) bias against mainstream health information, and ideologically applied it here against the evidence in front of all of our faces.
+1
I'm sorry your parents have been losing neighbours.
Also, I find it strange that these people are not arguing for lower speed limits, and other regulations that would save more lives with far less cost.
There might be quite a rational case for that from more than one viewpoint. It would have benefits beyond reducing the road toll, such as reducing oil consumption and GHG emissions etc. But even if you halved the road toll, that's unlikely to be as many as can be protected from the epidemic, depending on how it's managed.

But whatever the numbers, I don't think it's good argument to reject one protective measure because all other protective measures are not also being taken. Maybe some of those others would be good too, and worth promoting at some time. Right now, Covid-19 is serious, and it makes a big difference what people do. Getting some cars off the road should reduce the road toll too.
 

thomas00

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The US just doubled deaths in 5 days.

I don't think this is accurate to say yet.

The US is simply reporting an increase in deaths attributed to covid 19. We are being asked to accept that these are definitely proven to be due to the virus. I don't know why we should given that:

- we don't even seem to have a reliable test

-no data exists to prove this thing is worse than any other coronavirus, though data exists saying it isn't

-we've seen the sloppy methods being employed in how medical authorities are counting these deaths
 

tara

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The US is simply reporting an increase in deaths attributed to covid 19
I was looking at stats for confirmed deaths as reported on the relevant days, by whatever criteria they use. You are right that they may not be completely accurate - perfect info doesn't exist. Better analysis may be available later. But it is likely in the right order of magnitude, which is enough for the point I wanted to make, which is they are significant and have been growing fast.
 

RealNeat

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I was looking at stats for confirmed deaths as reported on the relevant days, by whatever criteria they use. You are right that they may not be completely accurate - perfect info doesn't exist. Better analysis may be available later. But it is likely in the right order of magnitude, which is enough for the point I wanted to make, which is they are significant and have been growing fast.

Sounds like the flu!
 

HumanLife

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Here in Malta we have only had 400 cases with only 3 deaths in one month after the lock-down. That's 400/450,000 of the population, so 0.08%. Only a few are in ICU. Even those that died were announced to be elderly people with various health conditions that would have died with the common cold. Why not just keep sick people locked inside? People are going out to supermarkets and taking walks, mind, in small groups, but still a lot of people are outside and they are only a few meters away. There are probably WAY more infected people but with virtually no symptoms...

In the first two weeks people were very paranoid and scared, but now they are more relaxed and not worried as much about being infected and dying. I know of wives that didn't want to send their husbands to work despite being able to, but have changed their mind and now are more relaxed about the situation of going out.
 
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Here in Malta we have only had 400 cases with only 3 deaths in one month after the lock-down. That's 400/450,000 of the population, so 0.08%. Only a few are in ICU. Even those that died were announced to be elderly people with various health conditions that would have died with the common cold. Why not just keep sick people locked inside? People are going out to supermarkets and taking walks, mind, in small groups, but still a lot of people are outside and they are only a few meters away. There are probably WAY more infected people but with virtually no symptoms...

In the first two weeks people were very paranoid and scared, but now they are more relaxed and not worried as much about being infected and dying. I know of wives that didn't want to send their husbands to work despite being able to, but have changed their mind and now are more relaxed about the situation of going out.

Malta..maybe the secrets to dreaded Crown-virus lies in Vitamin D sufficiency after all?
 

Peater Piper

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Why not just keep sick people locked inside? People are going out to supermarkets and taking walks, mind, in small groups, but still a lot of people are outside and they are only a few meters away. There are probably WAY more infected people but with virtually no symptoms...
Isn't that essentially Sweden's strategy? It hasn't gone terribly compared to some countries, but they're still at their highest excess all-cause mortality rate in the last 4-5 years, and their neighbors who did quarantine remain right where they should be.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Isn't that essentially Sweden's strategy? It hasn't gone terribly compared to some countries, but they're still at their highest excess all-cause mortality rate in the last 4-5 years, and their neighbors who did quarantine remain right where they should be.
"Last 4-5 years" Meaning it is nothing more than a flu. Not worth wrecking the society for.
 

Peater Piper

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"Last 4-5 years" Meaning it is nothing more than a flu. Not worth wrecking the society for.
Well, it is more than the seasonal flu of the last 4-5 years, and that's the case now in 8 different countries in Europe. I don't have the data further back than that, but keep in mind we're at a time of year when all-cause mortality is usually quite low. There's often a lot of deaths in winter, and I'm getting the feeling that it's not just the flu, all upper respiratory viruses have the potential to lead to pneumonia when it's cold, dry, and immune systems are suppressed. In fact the flu only makes up a small percentage of the pneumonia deaths. So we're really comparing this to the flu and common cold and everything else combined that's problematic during the winter. For an upper respiratory virus to be having this kind of impact in April is not common.
 
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It's difficult to know. Every case of someone who gets sick and is tested and dies, they all die from Covid-19. It's not clear that anything out of the ordinary is going on. Many hospitals don't accept supposed Covid-19 patients, and the ones that do are killing people using pure oxygen and "anti virals" and ventilators.

Very difficult to know what's going on. Old people can catch a rhinovirus and die from pneumonia. Happens all the time.
 

rei

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Is it really difficult? In my world a "pandemic" would mean several times higher mortality than normal for the season, otherwise the word loses all meaning. Now we live in a world where a very select few societies have seen a small rise in mortality while most have seen a decrease. And this is called a pandemic.

What in the ************* world will happen once a real pandemic strikes?
 

Peater Piper

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It's difficult to know. Every case of someone who gets sick and is tested and dies, they all die from Covid-19. It's not clear that anything out of the ordinary is going on.
That's why I'm looking at all-cause mortality, and it's very high in a number of countries. In the USA, last week exceeded 6k pneumonia deaths, the highest month by far in the past five years, and more than 50% higher than is common for this time of year. This certainly isn't the Spanish Flu, but there's many different metrics showing it's worse than the seasonal flu or common cold.
 

RealNeat

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That study is already going under heavy criticism .. I find it interesting the same critique isn't being applied to PCR, or presumptive deaths.
Exactly my thought
 

RealNeat

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That's why I'm looking at all-cause mortality, and it's very high in a number of countries. In the USA, last week exceeded 6k pneumonia deaths, the highest month by far in the past five years, and more than 50% higher than is common for this time of year. This certainly isn't the Spanish Flu, but there's many different metrics showing it's worse than the seasonal flu or common cold.
Or is it the medical intervention inflating the numbers? I'm starting to think so.
 

rei

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Please look at total mortality. Covid makes it seem like we suddenly found THE cure for heart attack, cancer etc. as they get diagnosed pneumonia/covid and thus have plummeted.

Last time i looked at total mortality it was at an unprecedented all-time low about a week ago. Not just slightly or about, but off-the-charts low. Back then the data was showing covid-19 is saving people's lives.
 

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