Why Do Most Of You Take Pharmaceutical Drugs?

[Parsifal]

I've been reading the forum for a month now and I notice that a lot of people are toying with pharmaceutical drugs in a sometimes irresponsible looking way.

I admit that I have some prejudice against artificial drugs use (even natural ones are far from being anodyne) because I have been more or less traumatized by medicine and influenced by naturopathy's way of thinking, but I'm still opened to change my way at looking at things, nevertheless I believe that this topic had to seriously be discussed.

I'm writing this even for hormone replacement like thyroid or progesterone, it seems a bit strange to indefinitely supplement something that your body naturally produces when RP explained how to reverse aging and to repair metabolism, with the potential to heal or seriously improve virtually almost any condition.
Moreover there has been strong side effects for almost every hormone supplementation I have researched (melatonine, cortisone for example or diverse bodybuilder's hormones), and in some cases it seems to even be able to shut down the receptors for the drug/hormone you take and to create tolerance so you may become addicted (I'm not well informed about these though, it seems the case for a lot of neurohormones though so I guess it can apply this to other hormones as well).

I thought that the goal of Peating was to repair the metabolism and structure by letting the body produce and use more energy that will repair everything (homeostasis), that genetic determinism did'nt matter as long as we repair the metabolism that will "repair" the genes?

I may be influenced by some Greek myths like Prometheus, Icarus (a man that wanted to fly to the sun and died in the process), I tend to really be a bit hostile against industrialization for the bad things it brought to the world (GMO is one of the main thing, pesticides ...) and suspicious about humans thinking they are gods, being conditioned and doing things without thinking about the consequences of their actions.

I understand that it might be helpful as a temporary help to settle things for some people who really need to move in the right direction, but I don't understand why people without apparent serious health issues are doing this? I've even read somewhere that Cyproheptadine has no side effects when you can read a lot of warnings on the web about it.

I don't want to sound presomptuous here (I'm really far from mastering the topic or understand all the implications), I'm a limited english speaker so I'm trying to explain my point of view and to ask my questions to have good answers to be able to widen my views and understand better what is happening here.

 

[jaguar43]

Some people can usually increase their thyroid or progesterone synthesis by following the basic recommendations from Ray Peat . However others may have a hard time increasing those substances because of biological imprinting. You could think of your cells as having a "memory" or a gradient that overtime, will continue to develop and adapt to the necessary conditions of the environment.

Here is an example of biological imprinting that Ray Peat cites regularly.

However, there is a famous experiment in which rats were made deficient in riboflavin, and when their corneal tissue showed evidence of the vitamin deficiency, they were given a standard diet. However, the standard diet no longer met the needs of their eye tissue, and during the remainder of the observation period, only a dose of riboflavin several times higher than normal would prevent the signs of deficiency. developmental change had taken place in the cornea, making its vitamin B2 requirement abnormally high. If we accept the epigenetic, developmental idea of metabolic requirements, our idea of nurturing environmental support would consider the long-range effects of environmental adequacy, and would consider that much disease could be prevented by prenatal support, and by avoiding extreme deficiencies at any time.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ge ... tion.shtml

If people have a tendency to be hypothyroid ( which was proven by Broda Barnes) then they will need a drug like thyroid or progesterone to overcome the adaptation of having lower thyroid or progesterone.

 

[Tarmander]

I have been messing around with insulin for like 16 years, dangerous I know. I have found that without it I'll die in like under a week

 

[tara]

I have been using pharmaceutical drugs since before reading Peat's work because I get severe pain and dysfunction, which I have been worn down by to the point where I am currently unable to tolerate more than a few hours to a day of the pain in a row, and I have children I need to take care of so I need to be at least somewhat functioning at least most of the time. I have serious doubts about the safety of some of these drugs, and am working to see if I can eliminate the need for them. I have been experimenting cautiously with some drugs and supplements recommended here (aspirin, cyproheptadine, progesterone, thyroid) because my reading is that they are much less likely to be harmful than the ones I'm using now, and there is a chance they may help restore my health so that I can reduce or eliminate the potentially more risky ones.

I suffered through a lot of pain in my twenties while avoiding drugs. I may not have used even a single aspirin, and only used a few ibuprofen for a week when I had a severe accidental shoulder strain. In retrospect, I think this was a mistake, but I didn't have access to information about the effects of different medicines then like I do now.

post 99209 I admit that I have some prejudice against artificial drugs use (even natural ones are far from being anodyne) because I have been more or less traumatized by medicine and influenced by naturopathy's way of thinking, but I'm still opened to change my way at looking at things, nevertheless I believe that this topic had to seriously be discussed.

I think caution about drugs is wise. I think caution about some substances prescribed by naturopaths would also be wise. That said, some drugs and naturopathic remedies are more hazardous than others, and sometimes the benefits may outweigh the risks/costs.

post 99209 I thought that the goal of Peating was to repair the metabolism and structure by letting the body produce and use more energy that will repair everything (homeostasis), that genetic determinism did'nt matter as long as we repair the metabolism that will "repair" the genes?

I partly agree, but metabolism is not always easy to get going again, esp. after it's been suppressed for many years, and not all damage is easily reversible. While epigenetics may be promising, and not all malfunctions should be written off as genetic, I don't think everything can be fixed by general restorative measures - though many things may be able to be somewhat alleviated.

post 99209 I understand that it might be helpful as a temporary help to settle things for some people who really need to move in the right direction, but I don't understand why people without apparent serious health issues are doing this?

I sometimes wonder about this too. Some people seem to recklessly follow the first bits of extreme advice they get given, even when there may not be much wrong that can't be fixed by regular food, sleep, sunshine etc. I'm guessing partly because they are trying to reach elusive goals promoted by our cultures, and partly because it's easier and quicker to take pills than to employ nutrition and stress-reduction and learning and observation and patience, and sometimes it feels easier to just have someone tell us what to do.

post 99209I've even read somewhere that Cyproheptadine has no side effects when you can read a lot of warnings on the web about it.

Some people write confident statements in ignorance of the evidence or in the face of the evidence. I'd be suspicious of any claims that any pharma drug has 'no side-effects'. And any claims that x is guaranteed to work for everybody. And I'd take with a grain of salt any other confident statements made by the same people.

That said, if you are aware of credible evidence of harm from cyproheptadine, then it might be good to post it - there is lots of evidence posted of it's potential benefits for many issues. The effects I'm aware of that people may sometimes consider unwanted are drowsiness and increased appetite (sometimes these are a good thing). And there are always possibilities of particular individual reactions.

 

[charlie]

 

[Such_Saturation]

Eat organic? You're eating pesticides.

 

[jyb]

I understand that it might be helpful as a temporary help to settle things for some people who really need to move in the right direction, but I don't understand why people without apparent serious health issues are doing this? I've even read somewhere that Cyproheptadine has no side effects when you can read a lot of warnings on the web about it.

No, I think most members do have serious health issues. There is a reason why we are here, spending time online on a health forum. Most "normal" people I know virtually never experience the kind of symptoms routinely seen here. So in a quest for greater health, there is appetite for experimentation...including with pharma drugs. But I share your concern that drugs often seem more of a temporary measure to address emergencies, without permanent healing. Most supplements I've experimented with (Lord knows how many anti-serotonin drugs) were useless to me.

 

[Joocy_J]

Why even use a car to drive its not natural bro, walk to the store

don't use a computer to talk to people, go face to face

don't listen to music on a radio, not natty

lmao gtfo with that hippie ***t....

 

[Such_Saturation]

Perhaps Joocy_J could use some cyproheptadine, for example.

 

[schultz]

One point of view could be something like...

In this day and age we have a lot of environmental factors pushing us in the wrong direction including things like environmental estrogens, working too much, occupational stress, low quality food, xrays, lack of sunlight, (the list is extensive, but I'll stop there) Maybe we need extra help to put us back in the right direction.

An example is Ray himself. I hear people say "so and so looks way better than Ray for their age so therefore Ray is wrong" or some such silly nonsense. The thing is Ray didn't figure this ***t out while he was inutero, it took him 40-50 years. Damage had already been done. For example, he talked about how his mom was hypothyroid and she couldn't have children. She took corpus luteum to get pregnant. He talked about when he was 5 years old he was almost lethally xrayed. Who knows what kind of damage this caused in his development? He has actually managed to reverse some of the damage. There is a pic of him before taking pregnenelone and after and the results are incredible. He also claims he took DHEA and grew a bit taller and his wisdom teeth came in while in his 40's. It could be that his body was damaged and he actually managed to put it back on track with these hormones.

So pharmaceuticals can help us deal with some of these modern issues. We are trying to be optimal, not sub-par.

For me personally, I just like experimenting. It's almost like exploring ones self. I have never had a serious health problem. I've only been to the doctor for things like a speck of metal in my eye or almost cutting my fingers off.

 

[charlie]

post 99262 lmao gtfo with that hippie s***....

Please take the alloted time given to you to explore the path of being respectful to other human beings. Until then.

 

[Parsifal]

Why even use a car to drive its not natural bro, walk to the store

don't use a computer to talk to people, go face to face

don't listen to music on a radio, not natty

lmao gtfo with that hippie s***....

I bet you didn't read the whole post? Or worse, you lack the ability to understand a non dualistic speech? Do you see the world only in dark or white?

One of the problem in this world is that people are living in stress hormones pathways and they are not taking the time to be emphatic in their interactions with others, they don't try to understand what other people say, they just want to take and never give and in a fight or flight response they take everything that is said personally as an offense, in this case I bet that you thought I was criticizing people that take pharmaceuticals (probably yourself)?

If you read the message again you will find that I did not blame anyone but rather tried to understand the approach of some people here (why they are not taking pharmaceuticals only temporarily and the use of these substances in the Peat paradigm because I've not found other topics that discussed it more generally.

Well, when writting this I was pretty sure to read comments like that but I hope people now will take more time to understand.

 

[Parsifal]

An example is Ray himself. I hear people say "so and so looks way better than Ray for their age so therefore Ray is wrong" or some such silly nonsense. The thing is Ray didn't figure this s*** out while he was inutero, it took him 40-50 years. Damage had already been done. For example, he talked about how his mom was hypothyroid and she couldn't have children. She took corpus luteum to get pregnant. He talked about when he was 5 years old he was almost lethally xrayed. Who knows what kind of damage this caused in his development? He has actually managed to reverse some of the damage. There is a pic of him before taking pregnenelone and after and the results are incredible. He also claims he took DHEA and grew a bit taller and his wisdom teeth came in while in his 40's. It could be that his body was damaged and he actually managed to put it back on track with these hormones.

So pharmaceuticals can help us deal with some of these modern issues. We are trying to be optimal, not sub-par.

For me personally, I just like experimenting. It's almost like exploring ones self. I have never had a serious health problem. I've only been to the doctor for things like a speck of metal in my eye or almost cutting my fingers off.

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of reply I was hopping to read and learn from while posting this message! Very interesting to learn more about Peat childhood!

If I wrote this, this is also because I'm trying to learn more about regeneration with the Peat prism, people are using crutches with pharmaceuticals and I understand and respect it, but like tara said some of us are using this as a quick fix instead of establishing deep lifestyles changes and probably believe that some damages are irreversible which I find to be a pity because I believe that this group has a huge potential of experimentation and understanding/researching/finding of the truth, if there is a place of the web to understand how to heal, this is certainly here.
Sorry, might be because I'm new here and enthusiastic, I don't believe that the pharmaceutical paradigm is the good one, after reading books like Cross Currents and Electric Body by Robert Becker I believe that we have huge potential in the future (or even now?) to regenerate people, maybe by increasing CO2 in the cells or with EMF/metabolism or other means? I might be really optimistic or even idealistic here.

Peat himself said that he has yet to find something that will explain that aging is a normal process so I guess we have to keep that in mind (without fantasizing of course) to research deeper healing and performance.

Again sorry if I seem presomptuous, I'm french and it is a bit hard to write in english so I may not write like I would in french, it is harder to organize my ideas with all the subtlety that I would like to use.

 

[Daimyo]

Personally, I am using quick fixes to fix my metabolism, then as my body is getting more resilience I am planing to get off drugs (thyroid and testosterone). Just as taking majority of pharmaceutical drugs might be unhealthy, it's also unhealthy to live in a state of low metabolism. I find myself to be much more productive while being on testosterone, it's contributing toward my finance, and that will allow me to live even better, healthier lifestyle.

 

[Tarmander]

One point of view could be something like...

In this day and age we have a lot of environmental factors pushing us in the wrong direction including things like environmental estrogens, working too much, occupational stress, low quality food, xrays, lack of sunlight, (the list is extensive, but I'll stop there) Maybe we need extra help to put us back in the right direction.

An example is Ray himself. I hear people say "so and so looks way better than Ray for their age so therefore Ray is wrong" or some such silly nonsense. The thing is Ray didn't figure this s*** out while he was inutero, it took him 40-50 years. Damage had already been done. For example, he talked about how his mom was hypothyroid and she couldn't have children. She took corpus luteum to get pregnant. He talked about when he was 5 years old he was almost lethally xrayed. Who knows what kind of damage this caused in his development? He has actually managed to reverse some of the damage. There is a pic of him before taking pregnenelone and after and the results are incredible. He also claims he took DHEA and grew a bit taller and his wisdom teeth came in while in his 40's. It could be that his body was damaged and he actually managed to put it back on track with these hormones.

So pharmaceuticals can help us deal with some of these modern issues. We are trying to be optimal, not sub-par.

For me personally, I just like experimenting. It's almost like exploring ones self. I have never had a serious health problem. I've only been to the doctor for things like a speck of metal in my eye or almost cutting my fingers off.

Do you have those before and after photos on preg? I'd be really interested to see.

 

[Parsifal]

post 99298

One point of view could be something like...

In this day and age we have a lot of environmental factors pushing us in the wrong direction including things like environmental estrogens, working too much, occupational stress, low quality food, xrays, lack of sunlight, (the list is extensive, but I'll stop there) Maybe we need extra help to put us back in the right direction.

An example is Ray himself. I hear people say "so and so looks way better than Ray for their age so therefore Ray is wrong" or some such silly nonsense. The thing is Ray didn't figure this s*** out while he was inutero, it took him 40-50 years. Damage had already been done. For example, he talked about how his mom was hypothyroid and she couldn't have children. She took corpus luteum to get pregnant. He talked about when he was 5 years old he was almost lethally xrayed. Who knows what kind of damage this caused in his development? He has actually managed to reverse some of the damage. There is a pic of him before taking pregnenelone and after and the results are incredible. He also claims he took DHEA and grew a bit taller and his wisdom teeth came in while in his 40's. It could be that his body was damaged and he actually managed to put it back on track with these hormones.

So pharmaceuticals can help us deal with some of these modern issues. We are trying to be optimal, not sub-par.

For me personally, I just like experimenting. It's almost like exploring ones self. I have never had a serious health problem. I've only been to the doctor for things like a speck of metal in my eye or almost cutting my fingers off.

Do you have those before and after photos on preg? I'd be really interested to see.

This is in one of his books I believe "Progesterone and orthomolecular medicine" if I'm right.

 

[Nicholas]

i think the only strange thing is the FOCUS on pharmaceuticals and various studies on isolated substances - and the actual mechanics of the body being an afterthought. it would seem more healthy to at least have equal measures of the two. sometimes it really does feel like an elite supplementation forum.

i was against supplementation for a long time, but i found that with the physical stressors of my job i could potentially lose ground on food-based/lifestyle decision-based healing. I have been taking low-dose Energin (which is a proper ratio of the b vitamins of cell metabolism) and seemed a wise protective measure to an area of my life that i don't want to change just because my body is not quite where i want it to be at the time. I've also dabbled with Taurine. i recognize also that it's a risk of unknowns - but as long as i do not get into a state of depending on this supplement then i am in the most perceptive place i can be. It could be argued that there might be risks, too, in trying to limit medicine to food and lifestyle only.

 

[ilovethesea]

post 99266 One point of view could be something like...

In this day and age we have a lot of environmental factors pushing us in the wrong direction including things like environmental estrogens, working too much, occupational stress, low quality food, xrays, lack of sunlight, (the list is extensive, but I'll stop there) Maybe we need extra help to put us back in the right direction.

An example is Ray himself. I hear people say "so and so looks way better than Ray for their age so therefore Ray is wrong" or some such silly nonsense. The thing is Ray didn't figure this s*** out while he was inutero, it took him 40-50 years. Damage had already been done. For example, he talked about how his mom was hypothyroid and she couldn't have children. She took corpus luteum to get pregnant. He talked about when he was 5 years old he was almost lethally xrayed. Who knows what kind of damage this caused in his development? He has actually managed to reverse some of the damage. There is a pic of him before taking pregnenelone and after and the results are incredible. He also claims he took DHEA and grew a bit taller and his wisdom teeth came in while in his 40's. It could be that his body was damaged and he actually managed to put it back on track with these hormones.

So pharmaceuticals can help us deal with some of these modern issues. We are trying to be optimal, not sub-par.

For me personally, I just like experimenting. It's almost like exploring ones self. I have never had a serious health problem. I've only been to the doctor for things like a speck of metal in my eye or almost cutting my fingers off.

I share this point of view. I like experimenting too. I tend to dive right into things and figure it out as I go along.

What about Pottenger's cats? Those cats were ****88 by the 4th generation or something, and then it took many generations after that to get them back to health.

I figure we are Pottenger's cats and if we need pharma drugs to recover our health, then so be it. I'm not a purist.

I think a lot of people on this forum are unnecessarily scared of thyroid for example, because of doctors fearmongering. Even Ray is pretty conservative about it but I think that's because he's been on some watchlist since the 1960s, he would be fined or jailed if he stepped over the line in what he recommends. Meanwhile thyroid is the single most important substance I have ever taken to help my health. I could not care less if it's not "natural".

 

[artist]

Taking NDT made my heartrate and body temp snap into a pretty ideal slot (about 80 bpm and 98.6) within the first few days and it's kept me humming ever since with no discernible side effects. My circulation is good for the first time and I'm not wearing wool sweaters in LA summers. To me the trade off of not having my body further disintegrate due to bad circulation and overall low metabolism is worth taking a couple pills every day, but I am really focused on improving diet and lifestyle as well and plan on experimenting with dropping the thyroid meds in another few months to see what happens. As others have said, part of the problem is that life doesn't stop for health experimentation - I need to be functional now, and taking thyroid makes that mostly possible.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

I've been reading the forum for a month now and I notice that a lot of people are toying with pharmaceutical drugs in a sometimes irresponsible looking way.

I admit that I have some prejudice against artificial drugs use (even natural ones are far from being anodyne) because I have been more or less traumatized by medicine and influenced by naturopathy's way of thinking, but I'm still opened to change my way at looking at things, nevertheless I believe that this topic had to seriously be discussed.

I'm writing this even for hormone replacement like thyroid or progesterone, it seems a bit strange to indefinitely supplement something that your body naturally produces when RP explained how to reverse aging and to repair metabolism, with the potential to heal or seriously improve virtually almost any condition.
Moreover there has been strong side effects for almost every hormone supplementation I have researched (melatonine, cortisone for example or diverse bodybuilder's hormones), and in some cases it seems to even be able to shut down the receptors for the drug/hormone you take and to create tolerance so you may become addicted (I'm not well informed about these though, it seems the case for a lot of neurohormones though so I guess it can apply this to other hormones as well).

I thought that the goal of Peating was to repair the metabolism and structure by letting the body produce and use more energy that will repair everything (homeostasis), that genetic determinism did'nt matter as long as we repair the metabolism that will "repair" the genes?

I may be influenced by some Greek myths like Prometheus, Icarus (a man that wanted to fly to the sun and died in the process), I tend to really be a bit hostile against industrialization for the bad things it brought to the world (GMO is one of the main thing, pesticides ...) and suspicious about humans thinking they are gods, being conditioned and doing things without thinking about the consequences of their actions.

I understand that it might be helpful as a temporary help to settle things for some people who really need to move in the right direction, but I don't understand why people without apparent serious health issues are doing this? I've even read somewhere that Cyproheptadine has no side effects when you can read a lot of warnings on the web about it.

I don't want to sound presomptuous here (I'm really far from mastering the topic or understand all the implications), I'm a limited english speaker so I'm trying to explain my point of view and to ask my questions to have good answers to be able to widen my views and understand better what is happening here.

I admit this has me befuddled also. Coming from a natural alternative health perspective with a disdain for Big Pharma and Big Med (and really everything else BIG!) I have pretty much written off synthetic drugs...and doctors. Looking back over 50 years, except for when I broke my finger and had to go to the emergency room, modern medicine has just taken...my money...my health...and my time..., with little in return. A third of all deaths in America are iatrogenic in nature...caused by healthcare! This is just my personal opinion, but anyone that steps into a doctors office should be prepared to be cut, poisoned, robbed, and burned...in more ways than one! First do no harm is no longer part of the deal. This is based on 5 years of eye-opening experiences in my job, from reading some of my favorite alternative health experts, and of course my own and others disappointing experiences with them. My awesome and beautiful 87 y.o. mom has suffered greatly at their hands, but most people probably wouldn't even recognize how all their interventions over 50 years have just made her sicker and sicker. And now after 25 years of going to docs to have her 'mystery illness' diagnosed and cured, they have basically written her off as a headcase. So, ya, not a fan of the modern medicine paradigm. But I digress...

Mostly I am befuddled about the recommendation to take aspirin. Although it can offer good benefits, it also has been implicated in damage to the body...particularly gut and eyes, but also other places such as liver and kidney, and even increased risk of strokes. A study done shows it doubles the risk of macular degeneration. This is an article that discusses this study and the other problems associated with taking aspirin.

Taking aspirin regularly causes severe degenerative eye disorders

Full disclosure...I have become open to trying Pepcid AC (as needed) and a little Benadryl because I appreciate the idea that modern illnesses sometimes need to be approached with modern fixes...just like the RP WOE is the modern day approach to our ills and ails vs. a simply traditional diet. But I am hoping someone can explain away the problems with aspirin. Maybe the problems only really exist because of frailties due to low metabolism and its effects on the body in its entirety??? Maybe aspirin shouldn't be started until after temp has begun to come up and other symptoms have begun subsiding...some healing has ocurred???

Thanks!