Why do indigenous people have bigger and more defined jaws?

Nebula

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Title, lol. Can any1 explain?
My guess is less processed food requires a lot more chewing especially in early childhood after being weaned while the jaw is developing. Mewing is the natural state of man.
 

bk_

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The dentist Weston Price noticed the same difference in jaw formation between different groups of people on different diets (hint: modern starch-based diets led to poor teeth and jaw development).

He travelled the world examining diets, cultures, and correlations to dental health and jaw development. Refer to here: Weston Price Principles of Helathy Diets

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CDT

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The dentist Weston Price noticed the same difference in jaw formation between different groups of people on different diets (hint: modern starch-based diets led to poor teeth and jaw development).

He travelled the world examining diets, cultures, and correlations to dental health and jaw development. Refer to here: Weston Price Principles of Helathy Diets

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I dont know how much stock I put into Price's work. I definitely think being on a reservation is a terrible influence on health, and "white man's foods", whatever that is, is probably not suitable for the aborigines. A lot of people attribute it to nutritional inadequacy but I think it might also have to do with the inclusion of sugary foods and a mouth micro biome not suited to starches.
 
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Vitamins A, K2 and D as well as more CO2 ( because of less stress, more social bonds, lack of PUFA oils, lack of gut damage from iron fillings, more potassium and magnesium, no vaccines, etc.).

Breastfeeding is also beneficial for the jaw growth, because the tongue pushes against the roof of the mouth every time the baby swallows the milk. I think this is actually the correct way of swallowing. About 6 months ago, I decided to try to put a conscious effort on doing this, especially when eating, but also when drinking plain water or juice. Feels much more natural for sure.
 

TheSir

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Price conflated two different issues, namely teeth decay and arch/jaw development, believing both to be the result of high intake of nutrients. In reality, while dental health is a matter of nutrients, jaw development is a matter of mechanical stimulation, i.e. mastication. Obviously when an indigenous person is placed on a diet of soft starches and sugar, they will have neither strong jaw nor healthy teeth. Yet a starving person with adequate mechanical loading will still develop a strong jaw. Nutritional deficiencies would have to be very severe before they sabotaged jaw development.
 

Apple

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Price conflated two different issues, namely teeth decay and arch/jaw development, believing both to be the result of high intake of nutrients. In reality, while dental health is a matter of nutrients, jaw development is a matter of mechanical stimulation, i.e. mastication. Obviously when an indigenous person is placed on a diet of soft starches and sugar, they will have neither strong jaw nor healthy teeth. Yet a starving person with adequate mechanical loading will still develop a strong jaw. Nutritional deficiencies would have to be very severe before they sabotaged jaw development.
So , how RAY PEAT followers overcome this problem,( not enough mastication)? Mostly liquid diet apart from a couple bites of carrot won't do the job.
 

RealNeat

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So , how RAY PEAT followers overcome this problem,( not enough mastication)? Mostly liquid diet apart from a couple bites of carrot won't do the job.
Beef jerky
 

MaxVerstappen

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Its difficult to separate the "nutrients" from the "hardness of the food". The fact is that they went from a traditional diet and changed to a western diet (i.e. modern foods of commerce - in Weston Price's words).

To separate the change in facial structure in either nutrition or mastication is somewhat a false dichotomy. Its hard to separate the nutrients from the source it comes from. In most cases, the hardness of the foods decreased, and so did the nutrients they consumed.

Anyways, the fact is that those who also changed from a traditional diet also developed other health problems, e.g. young boys with arthritis and tuberculosis in the spine. I don't think anyone claims that arthritis is caused by not chewing hard foods. Although some might claim that they got arthritis because they "stopped being as active" or whatever without much proof.

The isolated Swiss survived mostly on a diet consisting of cheese, milk and rye, while eating meats once a week. Their teeth were nicely developed. I've heard people say "their cheese and bread was harder", but I don't think there is any reason whatever to assume this, it's just bias.

The growth of an individual is not contingent on ONE factor, but a multitude of factors, nutrition and light probably being the most important followed by other environmental factors as various stressors, e.g. muscle hypertrophy and Wolff's law, diverse factors leaving an "endocrinological print" such as mental stress etc.
 

reaching

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So , how RAY PEAT followers overcome this problem,( not enough mastication)? Mostly liquid diet apart from a couple bites of carrot won't do the job.

Raw beef tendon.
just chew on that for thirty minutes a day.
I am doing an experiment with chewing on raw meat for 20 minutes a day. Basically I will cut some steak or thigh meat into bigger than normal bite sizes and chew. Swallow the muscle fibers and continue to chew the tendon or connective tissue fibers or fat. Not really sure what is left over but there’s something and then I keep adding to it until the soft muscle tissue gods appears. Then add again. It helps to be watching TVs and relaxed and love the wad of tissue fiber in different parts of the mouth. You ever see videos of indigenous people eating or preparing food? They’re like chewing all day. Sometimes on sticks and ***t.
 

bk_

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So , how RAY PEAT followers overcome this problem,( not enough mastication)? Mostly liquid diet apart from a couple bites of carrot won't do the job.
There are many anecdotes of people supplementing vitamin K2 and experiencing facial widening and bone growth in adulthood. One particular forum member posted striking photos of before and after K2 supplementation and she was middle aged (Has Anyone Seen Facial Changes In Jaw And Cheeks From Vitamin K2-mk4?). There are also anecdotes of healing dental carries from K2 supplementation alone.

Price also identifies an “Activator X” that was a critical nutrient for growth and teeth development using iodometric analysis of foods. This was later found to be what we know as vitamin K2: On the Trail of the Elusive X-Factor: A Sixty-Two-Year-Old Mystery Finally Solved - The Weston A. Price Foundation
 
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aodg

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Hi, sorry to derail, my observation here from Western North America is that you often see a round chest and flat butt.

What is it about a traditional diet vs the modern Western diet that would cause this appearance ? Is it insufficient in co factors required to process a high amount/ratio of carbs (B1, Magnesium ?) and does poor carbohydrate metabolism cause a barrel chest and minimal glute development ?
 

Summer

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I’d bet posture also plays a role. They weren’t sitting in chairs all day hunched over.
 

Nebula

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LOL, as if chewing cooked meat did anything for the jaw...
Wild game meat is much tougher than domesticated livestock that don’t exercise and usually older when slaughtered. I’m not sure hunter gatherers had the ability or interest to slow cook meat like a crockpot can to fully break down collagen. Not that it’s optimal for metabolic health but most non agricultural foods are coarser and tougher to chew.
 
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CDT

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Wild game meat is much tougher than domesticated livestock that don’t exercise and usually older when slaughtered. I’m not sure hunter gatherers had the ability or interest to slow cook meat like a crockpot can to fully break down collagen. Not that it’s optimal for metabolic health but most non agricultural foods are coarser and tougher to chew.
My question is why Paleo people are interested in eating like hunter gatherers when they sit on a damn chair, eat whatever the hell they want, noting that they DID NOT grow or hunt it, stay indoors, don't exercise for nearly 6-8 hours a day, and just live a relatively easy-going life. I think meat eating afforded benefits only because peoples lives were tough and short, but now that we are out of that lifestyle, I think its becoming a toxin in our society. Its got too much iron, too many ammonia building amino acids, too much protein (keep in mind, even 2 hours of working out isnt going to break down as much muscle as the hunter gatherers were doing, and even they didnt eat as much meat as we might think....their poops/coprolites hae been studied and its damn near chock full with fiber), and now contaminated with a whole lot of modern shite...
 

GelatinGoblin

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My question is why Paleo people are interested in eating like hunter gatherers when they sit on a damn chair, eat whatever the hell they want, noting that they DID NOT grow or hunt it, stay indoors, don't exercise for nearly 6-8 hours a day, and just live a relatively easy-going life. I think meat eating afforded benefits only because peoples lives were tough and short, but now that we are out of that lifestyle, I think its becoming a toxin in our society. Its got too much iron, too many ammonia building amino acids, too much protein (keep in mind, even 2 hours of working out isnt going to break down as much muscle as the hunter gatherers were doing, and even they didnt eat as much meat as we might think....their poops/coprolites hae been studied and its damn near chock full with fiber), and now contaminated with a whole lot of modern shite...

I also do not understand this. I think it is because of the notion that not much is different... Lol except all the Stressors: EMF, general radiation both Ionising and non, lack of Sun, poor metabolism (also stems for stressors but it itself is a major stressor), fluoride, goitrogens, medicine, Estrogenic environment via Xeno estrogens, less sleep ( also from poor metabolism, basically most things are sort of a feedback loop) poor Thyroid of mother when in the womb, etc etc... Medicine... Less nature, noise pollution, less family, Sociopathic people, blue light, no fathers; some things seem minor but it all adds up and has its own consequences.
This is beside the fact that everything is way way less nutritious. ill health and sickness being marketed as "genetics" or natural deviation, when back then half of the ***t that people suffer from now existed in very low percentile range back in the day and even further back like 10,000 years ago in 0.1% range or simply did not exist, still so in some wild tribes. They market the fact that everything is the same, only we eat more sugar and get less exercise now... The greed is ridiculous
 

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