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Why Are PUFA's Delicious?
- Thread starter narouz
- Start date
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- Tags
- diet dietary fats pufa
narouz said:
Yes, I understand u know pecans are bad. I'm saying most people are *programmed* to think pecans are yummy; they wouldn't eat them otherwise.
Grok is the hero of the primal community. He's the distant ancestor we all look up to so far as diet and general lifestyle are concerned.
You've never been to marksdailyapple.com? No 21 day primal challenge? Really?
This "programming" argument... 
I'm willing to be persuaded.
But what I think I see a lot of, on this question, is reasoning toward a fixed conclusion.
The fixed conclusion?
PUFAs taste bad.
And why do some desire to find that PUFAs taste bad?
Because it is somewhat unpleasant to believe
that something that is bad for you
can taste good.
A variety of reasons are put forth to explain away that unpleasant reality:
1. we are programmed (by media, by advertisers, by seed oil companies, etc).
2. our perception of taste has been perverted by modern life.
3. we have lost touch with our primal instinct for healthy food.
4. we are addicted to destructive foods which seem, to our addicted perceptions, to taste good.
5. we are simply habituated to unhealthy foods and eat guided--not by true, pure, primal taste--
but rather just by the momentum of our long destructive habits of eating.
It seems to me that we may be going through all those explanations
in order to avoid the simple and obvious:
High PUFA foods can be delicious.
I don't think I've ever read Dr. Peat argue
that eating his recommended foods
and avoiding his non-recommended foods
should be a "natural," or "instinctual," or "easy" thing.
And I don't think I've ever read him write
that one will be naturally repulsed by the taste of high-PUFA foods.
Dr. Peat himself seems to sometimes crave the taste of bacon.
He discusses his method of making it less harmful--
re-frying in coconut oil.
I don't think he does that to improve the flavor.
I'm willing to be persuaded.
But what I think I see a lot of, on this question, is reasoning toward a fixed conclusion.
The fixed conclusion?
PUFAs taste bad.
And why do some desire to find that PUFAs taste bad?
Because it is somewhat unpleasant to believe
that something that is bad for you
can taste good.
A variety of reasons are put forth to explain away that unpleasant reality:
1. we are programmed (by media, by advertisers, by seed oil companies, etc).
2. our perception of taste has been perverted by modern life.
3. we have lost touch with our primal instinct for healthy food.
4. we are addicted to destructive foods which seem, to our addicted perceptions, to taste good.
5. we are simply habituated to unhealthy foods and eat guided--not by true, pure, primal taste--
but rather just by the momentum of our long destructive habits of eating.
It seems to me that we may be going through all those explanations
in order to avoid the simple and obvious:
High PUFA foods can be delicious.
I don't think I've ever read Dr. Peat argue
that eating his recommended foods
and avoiding his non-recommended foods
should be a "natural," or "instinctual," or "easy" thing.
And I don't think I've ever read him write
that one will be naturally repulsed by the taste of high-PUFA foods.
Dr. Peat himself seems to sometimes crave the taste of bacon.
He discusses his method of making it less harmful--
re-frying in coconut oil.
I don't think he does that to improve the flavor.
gretchen said:
I would eat a really big amount of pecans (and macadamia nuts) daily because they were a convenient source of protein. It's easy to carry a bag of nuts around with you. Nuts are marketed as healthy food natural, non-processed and high protein and omega-3 content. I ate other bad things too...
Not where I shop. You can probably buy 3 gallons of corn oil for the same price as about 12oz of coconut oil.key said:
But I agree with J. Occasional nut consumption should be about the least of your worldly concerns. While pecans contain a lot of PUFA, they also have a lot of MUFA and some SFA. When taken in totality of your overall diet, a handful of pecans once a month is going to amount to a negligible amount of PUFA.
narouz said:This "programming" argument...
I'm willing to be persuaded.
But what I think I see a lot of, on this question, is reasoning toward a fixed conclusion.
The fixed conclusion?
PUFAs taste bad.
And why do some desire to find that PUFAs taste bad?
Because it is somewhat unpleasant to believe
that something that is bad for you
can taste good.
A variety of reasons are put forth to explain away that unpleasant reality:
1. we are programmed (by media, by advertisers, by seed oil companies, etc).
2. our perception of taste has been perverted by modern life.
3. we have lost touch with our primal instinct for healthy food.
4. we are addicted to destructive foods which seem, to our addicted perceptions, to taste good.
5. we are simply habituated to unhealthy foods and eat guided--not by true, pure, primal taste--
but rather just by the momentum of our long destructive habits of eating.
It seems to me that we may be going through all those explanations
in order to avoid the simple and obvious:
High PUFA foods can be delicious.
I don't think I've ever read Dr. Peat argue
that eating his recommended foods
and avoiding his non-recommended foods
should be a "natural," or "instinctual," or "easy" thing.
And I don't think I've ever read him write
that one will be naturally repulsed by the taste of high-PUFA foods.
Dr. Peat himself seems to sometimes crave the taste of bacon.
He discusses his method of making it less harmful--
re-frying in coconut oil.
I don't think he does that to improve the flavor.
If everyone around you says something is good, you start to believe it. I've already said this on this thread, but I remember when I first heard about nut butters. I had a friend who started to buy them to put on things like sprouted wheat bread. I remember thinking what a horrible waste of $ for a jar of ground up nuts, but because this person bought it, I started to think I should like nut butter too.
Nut butter are one of the most popular disgusting PUFAs. Just look at this blog Kath Eats Real Food. She has a whole audience who has followed her for years and has nary a bad word to say about her execessive use of nut butters:
http://www.katheats.com/
Looky there! The front page of the blog displays a bowl of almonds. YUM, how good for you! This is what she has to say about them:
Plain almonds are good….but I find flavored almonds taste even better. I’m more likely to eat this superfood if they have a bit more complexity to them. I’m always looking for a protein-friendly snack to pair with fresh fruit in the afternoons, and these have been my go-to all week. Almonds make such a great snack by the {small} handful, salad topper or garnish on practically any dish. This bunch would be great on soba noodles!
Nuts are a SUPER FOOD! Wow, exciting. Like salads and other foods that have taken off in the mainstream (chicken, omega 3 eggs, kale, etc), if enough people say "almonds are a good snack" no one is going to say, ew yuck, almonds.
Rolan
Member
I've thought of this quite recently, and my answer was this; they don't! The list of food you mention on the first page is not appetizing to me at all. Salmon, olive oil, nuts etc, are frankly disgusting to my refined palette. Things we are told are healthy. I never once enjoyed those almonds I forced down my throat for yrs. I haven't eaten these things for a good few years now. I would say, as others have done, that some foods taste good to you in spite of, not because of pufas
I have thought a lot about this, why are eg. McDonalds fries fried in soybean oil so delicious when the pufa is unhealthy, wouldnt there be an evolutionary adaptation to scorn these foods just as we scorn molded foods or excessively bitter foods? Im going to throw out a theory here, could it be that it was actually adaptive in ancient times to gorge on pufa foods, namely nuts when they were in season early autumn to lower metabolism build fat reserves and prepare for the winter? (like a bear preparing for hibernation) And this adaptation doesn't work when there's a year around abundance of these pufa foods? And we end up replacing saturated fats for pufa fats year around causing metabolic damage? Please tell me what you think, I have noone to discuss these matters lol
Potatoes fried in coconut oil are super delicious.
And much better tasting than if they are fried in sunflower oil in my opinion.
Vegetables pan-fried in coconut oil are much better tasting than vegetables pan-fried in sunflower oil imo.
My parents cook in coconut oil for years. And if people have dinner with them, they very often get asked which oils he use, because it tastes so good.
I really don't think that it is true that PUFAs are better tasting in general.
And much better tasting than if they are fried in sunflower oil in my opinion.
Vegetables pan-fried in coconut oil are much better tasting than vegetables pan-fried in sunflower oil imo.
My parents cook in coconut oil for years. And if people have dinner with them, they very often get asked which oils he use, because it tastes so good.
I really don't think that it is true that PUFAs are better tasting in general.
thebigpeatowski
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 1,750
I think home made pecan pie is DELISH...I don't care what anyone says, it's yummy with coffee. I make one once every other Fall (on average), with a coconut flour crust cuz I don't eat wheat. So what? Eat a slice with some vitamin E...once every two years, it won't kill you.
Kasper said:
That is besides the point, atleast my point. People in general clearly find many pufa-foods delicious including french fries, potato chips, peanut butter and deep-fried chicken. So I was wondering why there wouldnt be an evolutionary adaptation to scorn these pufa-foods, and my theory that it was in fact adaptive to gorge on nuts when they were in season, but not as advantegous when there is year-round abundance and they end up replacing saturated fats
J
j.
Guest
kirby said:
When people are hungry, they eat what's available.
If you let them taste all those foods you're mentioning, a coconut oil version and a pufa oil version of each, they'll choose the coconut oil product.
:2cents
Yeah okey you're still missing my point entirely. If you eat food that's moldy or something poisonous you will usually spit it out because of the bad taste. why? because this behaviour has evolved when people that didn't spit it out got poisoned and might have died not passing on their genes. I aswell as Ray Peat am convinced that sugar is in fact good for your health and metabolism and there is an evoloutionary adaptation to like the taste of sugar because it is benificial to the human.
If pufa is so detrimental to health and metabolism why haven't we evolved to discard it and spit it out like moldy food? Well it could be that it was indeed adaptive to gorge on pufa foods but only seasonally in autumn when these foods could be harvested, to prepare you fat reserves for the winter?
j. said:
Yeah okey you're still missing my point entirely. If you eat food that's moldy or something poisonous you will usually spit it out because of the bad taste. why? because this behaviour has evolved when people that didn't spit it out got poisoned and might have died not passing on their genes. I aswell as Ray Peat am convinced that sugar is in fact good for your health and metabolism and there is an evoloutionary adaptation to like the taste of sugar because it is benificial to the human.
If pufa is so detrimental to health and metabolism why haven't we evolved to discard it and spit it out like moldy food? Well it could be that it was indeed adaptive to gorge on pufa foods but only seasonally in autumn when these foods could be harvested, to prepare you fat reserves for the winter?
J
j.
Guest
We evolved to sometimes eat bad food, because if we never ate bad food, we would die when good food isn't available.
We drink liquids from plastic containers, which is estrogenic. Do you think we evolved to eat plastic? No. We evolved to sometimes eat bad food, when better foods aren't available.
Question: Why don't most spit out water from plastic containers? Does that prove we evolved to eat plastic?
We drink liquids from plastic containers, which is estrogenic. Do you think we evolved to eat plastic? No. We evolved to sometimes eat bad food, when better foods aren't available.
Question: Why don't most spit out water from plastic containers? Does that prove we evolved to eat plastic?
J
j.
Guest
kirby said:
Studies show it's estrogenic. Consuming a lot of water from plastic containers is like eating small amounts of plastic.
So let me rephrase the question: Why did we evolve to eat small amounts of plastic?
"Mary Shomon: You talk about darkness and shorter days of winter as a stress. It's known that more thyroid hormone is needed by some patients during colder weather. Are there other things you recommend patients do to "winterproof" their metabolism?
- Dr. Ray Peat: Very bright incandescent lights are helpful, because light acts on, and restores, the same mitochondrial enzymes that are governed by the thyroid hormone. In squirrels, hibernation is brought on by the accumulation of unsaturated fats in the tissues, suppressing respiration and stimulating increased serotonin production. In humans, winter sickness is intensified by those same antithyroid substances, so it's important to limit consumption of unsaturated fats and tryptophan (which is the source of serotonin). When a person is using a thyroid supplement, it's common to need four times as much in December as in July."
Got this from an interview, I think this part " In squirrels, hibernation is brought on by the accumulation of unsaturated fats in the tissues, suppressing respiration and stimulating increased serotonin production." is interesting. I suspect there could be a similar mechanism at play in humans. In fact squirrels will also overeat to the point of obesity when nuts are in abundance (such as when they are continually fed nuts by tourists in national parks)
- Dr. Ray Peat: Very bright incandescent lights are helpful, because light acts on, and restores, the same mitochondrial enzymes that are governed by the thyroid hormone. In squirrels, hibernation is brought on by the accumulation of unsaturated fats in the tissues, suppressing respiration and stimulating increased serotonin production. In humans, winter sickness is intensified by those same antithyroid substances, so it's important to limit consumption of unsaturated fats and tryptophan (which is the source of serotonin). When a person is using a thyroid supplement, it's common to need four times as much in December as in July."
Got this from an interview, I think this part " In squirrels, hibernation is brought on by the accumulation of unsaturated fats in the tissues, suppressing respiration and stimulating increased serotonin production." is interesting. I suspect there could be a similar mechanism at play in humans. In fact squirrels will also overeat to the point of obesity when nuts are in abundance (such as when they are continually fed nuts by tourists in national parks)
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