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Why Are Peat-ers Against Legumes?

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by CDT, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. CDT

    CDT Member

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    Been hearing legumes such as pigeon pea are some of the most nutrient dense foods available for vegetarians like myself. What are some reasons why they are not approved in the standard Peat diet? Thanks in advance!
     
  2. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    Poor amino acid profile, anti nutrients and high starch would probably be the main arguments. They also tend to be poorly prepared if store bought.

    That might not still be clear to you, but many on the forums don't follow a strict Peat diet. Look at the motto in the forum header :) You have to observe your own body reactions to different foods and environmental factors and take informed actions.
     
  3. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Eat potatoes, fruit, milk and eggs. Far more nutritious
     
  4. PowertothePeatple

    PowertothePeatple Member

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    Beans are very difficult to digest and contain many anti-nutrients like lectins and phytic acid. Peatarians are very aware of endotoxins and their effect on health and beans are likely to contribute to bad gut bacteria and endotoxin load. However, I have heard Ray Peat say that very well cooked hummus and lentils in moderation are probably fine. I think the real issue is if you are using beans as a primary food. Do you consume dairy? Because IMO as a vegetarian milk is your best bet for protein and if not that then Ray Peat recommends potatoes, I think. I think when a people say something like beans are nutrient rich they are not taking into account how much of those nutrients you can actually absorb. Just because it has nutrient value on the plate doesn't mean your body can utilize it.
     
  5. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    Mostly dogma. Small lentils are fine, especially if soaked and particularly if sprouted.

    Phytic acid also has beneficial effects.
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    I feel that beans are very healthy and functional in moderation. Bean and cheese burritos (tortillas made with palm oil) are a staple of mine and simply eating them a couple times a week has eliminated my bloating response to beans. In terms of feeding bad gut bacteria, they don't seem nearly as bad as whole grains, which I greatly limit.
     
  7. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    While it would be great if beans were a neutral source of nutrients, there are several potential anti-metabolic effects.

    To be clear, the topic is "grain legumes"
    Fabaceae - Wikipedia
    "Grain legumes are cultivated for their seeds, and are also called pulses."

    Soy is the widespread bean cultivar, with extreme commercial interests. Other beans may have other qualities. But since soy has the most research about its human and animal effects, it should serve as a caution about using other beans. Some metabolic concerns may not be investigated across a thorough variety of beans.

    Potential metabolism-impairing effects include:

    (1) Phytoestrogens: Many beans contain phytoestrogens, including black bean, chickpea, mung, and lentil.

    (2) Goitrogens
    Lima Beans, for instance, contain "cyanogenic glucosides", which interfere with iodine metabolism
    Nutritional epidemiology and thyroid hormone metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI

    (1a & 2a) Isoflavones: Isoflavones may be a cause of high estrogen and low thyroid effects, and are present in many beans, admittedly of a factor of 20 to 100 times less than soy. Beans with isoflavone content include split peas, navy, mung, pigeon peas, peanuts, chickpeas, cowpeas, lima and lentil.

    (3) PUFA: Whiles legumes generally are quite low in fat (soy and peanut have higher fat content), it is additional PUFA. Eating large quantity of legumes for protein means additional PUFA intake, even if other PUFA sources are avoided.

    (4) Soluble fiber: Many legumes have high fiber content, with sizable portion of soluble fiber. There are concerns about soluble fiber.
    Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It

    Again, more is known generally about soy and peanuts. Much less has been reported about special effects of other legumes.

    Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?
    "The leaves, stems, and seeds are susceptible to attack by insects, birds, and grazing animals. Since the plant’s seeds are of unique importance to the plant, and contain a high concentration of nutrients, they must have special protection. Sometimes this consists of a hard shell, and sometimes of chemicals that inhibit the animal’s digestive enzymes. Many plants have evolved fruits that provide concentrated food for animals, and that serve to distribute the seeds widely, as when a bird eats a berry, and excretes the undigested seed at a great distance. If the fruit were poisonous, it wouldn’t serve the plant’s purpose so well. In general, the plant’s most intense toxins are in its seeds, and the fruits, when mature, generally contain practically no toxins."

    "Unsaturated fats themselves are important defenses, since they inhibit trypsin and other proteolytic enzymes, preventing the assimilation of the proteins that are present in seeds and leaves, and disrupting all biological processes that depend on protein breakdown, such as the formation of thyroid hormone and the removal of blood clots."
     
  8. Mito

    Mito Member

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    Unfavorable phosphorus to calcium ratio
     
  9. skittles

    skittles Member

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    I haven't eaten a strict Peat diet in quite a while now, but I started eating more legumes regularly for the first time in ages. So far, I feel fine. They're super satisfying and allow for a much greater palette of meals to choose from.

    Whole grains, on the other hand, always seem to cause me problems.

    PS Aaron: definitely gonna make bean and cheese burritos! Let me know if you have any tips.
     
  10. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Yeah, all those, but mostly, I don't care to eat them all that often.
     
  11. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Yeah, refined wheat and rice are far better than their whole counterpart. It's really too bad that the US, UK, and Canada insist on poisoning their citizens with mandated iron shavings in those foods.
     
  12. Captain_Coconut

    Captain_Coconut Member

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    A bit of a tangent here, but something off-putting about beans is how inedible they are without a lot of cooking, as are most foods humans consume... I’m curious what foods are actually Peaty which are also safe to consume uncooked and unprocessed.. raw milk and fruit?
     
  13. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Also honey. And oysters. And beef would probably be fine too, if it were fresh, like how predators do it. I would eat raw beef before sushi at this point. Fish parasites are nasty.

    EDIT- Don't forget carrots. Unless you consider peeling processing.

    EDIT 2- Also forgot, I've eaten quite a few raw eggs.
     
  14. BTD

    BTD Member

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    I love beans sometimes. Growing up in southwest Virginia, they were a staple in my family's diet; I like making Cuban black beans in my instant pot. This is just hearsay but I recall reading that adding vinegar neutralizes the phytoestrogen content of beans, but that could be untrue. Regarldess, I add some white vinegar when I make the CBBs. I also use ample lime juice (citrus is beneficial too, I recall reading) as well. They make for a hearty meal combined with a source of animal protein. I've never experienced any digestive issues from them. At least knowingly. I don't have it all the time, though.
     
  15. Atman

    Atman Member

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    I don't mind some well cooked green beans as a small side dish to my rib eye.
    But as a staple for protein? Why would you want to do that except of ideological reasons?
    Just simply tastewise they can't compete with meat, eggs and cheese.
     
  16. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    I actually find bean protein to be more satisfying than egg protein, but not meat.
     
  17. Benyamin Bulluc

    Benyamin Bulluc Member

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    Because legumes are lower in the hierarchy of not nutritionaly dense foods.

    The title makes peaters look like restrictive, supreme, authoritarians.
     
  18. Peater

    Peater Member

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    True, but I do have my bad points.
     
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