Why are anticholinergics amazing for immune health?

[ddjd]

Due to some gallbladder issues I've reintroduced various forms of Phosphatidylcholine recently, including haiduts "Mitolipin" which is a saturated form.

Unfortunately however, despite my gallbladder improving somewhat, im getting constantly ill due to the Choline - it's like my immune system suddenly caves in and i become incredibly vulnerable to infection.

And before you say it's just a coincidence, I took a 3 week long break off the choline, started feeling great again, and then back on the Choline, I got another cold straight away!

Furthermore, since I started peating around 2016 I think I've been ill about once or maybe twice and never anything severe. Prior to peating I was always getting colds and flus. The peat approach is inherently anti Choline, so it doesn't surprise me. Cyproheptadine, and a lot of the other antihistamines are of course anti cholinergic and it's something that I have taken fairly regularly over this period that might explain this consistently great immune health.

My question is why does choline induce this terrible immune system weakness???

I took some Choline 2 days ago, got really fluey again yesterday after being at work with some sick colleagues, took 4mg Cyproheptadine today and all the weakness and tonsil/throat pain is already disappearing!

It's very clear to me that although anticholinergics have induced my gallbladder problems due to low choline, my immune health has benefited hugely and long term an anti cholinergic approach is far better for overall health.

 

[Peatness]

It could be hormone related

Dietary choline requirements of women: effects of estrogen and genetic variation - PubMed

Because of their lower estrogen concentrations, postmenopausal women have a higher dietary requirement for choline than do premenopausal women. Choline requirements for both groups of women are further increased by rs12325817. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT00065546.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Andy316]

@ddjd Any updates on this? I recently noticed this too with any high choline foods and nightshades (especially Potatoes). Any fixes or just go on low choline diet.

 

[redsun]

@ddjd Any updates on this? I recently noticed this too with any high choline foods and nightshades (especially Potatoes). Any fixes or just go on low choline diet.

OP used cypro which is not only anticholinergic but a very strong antihistamine. So its no shock that it can relieve symptoms of flu. But thats all it did. Cypro or any other antihistamine does not boost immune health in any way. And choline doesn't weaken the immune system or increase your susceptibility to getting sick. Acetylcholine, as well as its ability to stimulate histamine release is what triggers the symptoms. And thus this also means when you are sick, high choline intake or if you have high histamine activity in general may lead to an increased severity of symptoms. More severe symptoms in this case does not mean you are more sick. It just means there is more signalling in the body that is responsible for manifesting the symptoms associated with being sick. So there can be more sneezing, mucus, coughing, sinus congestion, watery eyes, etc.

But this isnt a weak immune system. If you get sick that means the immune system is actually working, the problem is for some people the severity of the symptoms is too much when they eat too much choline while sick. To reduce how severe the symptoms are, you can simply lay off high choline foods until you get better and you can of course take over the counter antihistamines which a lot of people already do. It will reduce the severity of the symptoms while the illness runs its course.

But you still need choline for things like optimal gallbladder function and other autonomic processes. Unfortunately it can be inconvenient when you are sick for reasons I explained but it does not mean choline itself is bad. And if OP feels bad on choline, he shouldnt take just choline and get it from eggs and other things instead. Most of the time, you'll do better getting choline from a whole food instead of taking isolated choline.

 

[Andy316]

Thanks @redsun . I ate 2 eggs everyday last couple of weeks. I will stop eating them for a few days and then maybe introduce 1 per day.

 

[redsun]

Thanks @redsun . I ate 2 eggs everyday last couple of weeks. I will stop eating them for a few days and then maybe introduce 1 per day.

You may be able to do the eggs better if you avoid nightshades. Also getting more iodine from a food or supplement. Many people eat eggs and potatoes every day for example and have little issue but some people may have genetic differences that make them very sensitive to choline already. Also if the whites of the egg are not fully cooked you may just be getting an allergic reaction to the egg white. I would make sure the whites are fully cooked whether you fry them or boil them or however you make them.

 

[ddjd]

@ddjd Any updates on this? I recently noticed this too with any high choline foods and nightshades (especially Potatoes). Any fixes or just go on low choline diet.

I don't think I get this with nightshades.

There's a possibility that they use up zinc and that would explain it.

However, it is also likely that it's as simple as due to the fact that they are very anti metabolic