Who Here Has Gone From Having Belly Fat To Having A Flat Stomach?

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,131
I wonder what adding DHEA (and a comprehensive nutrient stack) would do to meter the stress of exercise when overweight. That is, maybe it would balance out increased cortisol.

Haidut had a great thread on this exact subject, and how muscle gains from steroids might be due to being anti-catabolic (especially cortisol) more so than being "androgenic." I am experimenting with this idea right now, and the early returns are both exciting and encouraging-

Structural Requirements For An Optimal Anti-Catabolic Steroid
 

Peater Piper

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
817
As for walking many people already walk quite a bit even if overweight, and if someone is really fat/unhealthy even walking long distances will do unnecessary harm.
I'm curious where you live, because where I am in the USA, most people do not walk quite a bit. It's one of the most stark differences I've noticed between here and overseas where obesity isn't an epidemic. Outside of some major cities, a lot of walking simply isn't required here, whereas it's a necessity for daily travel in many countries.
 

Waremu

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
532
Yes I am speaking from experience. I am aware of generally how damaging long running can do, most people who casually bodybuild avoid it because they know it can destroy musclemass. Bodybuilding.com could be a great resource for peatists imo, and a lot of people are pretty intuitive and in great shape

A large percentage of people who body build do fasted cardio for 30 min- to and hour, sometimes more every day/morning. Thats likely just as bad as slow jogging for a few hours when glycogen is fuller. Bodybuilding.com has some useful information, but it also is full of a lot of bro science and many people who think they're pro body builders just because their abs show. I am very familiar with the website, as someone who came from a competitive powerlifting background. Most bodybuilders today are not a good symbol of health. Many people come here because they are already sick, as opposed to many people who go to bodybuilding.com are already healthy and often young and looking to increase fitness/lose some weight. Sick people go there too, but it is likely that a much higher percentage of sick people come here. So the reasons are very different in many cases.

I don't think weightlifting causes such a huge mass of cortisol it's not recoverable from. I think it creates a net positive and you just have to wait it out for your energy to returns, w/e your body is capable of. Exercise helps heal the liver and store glycogen though. I don't think I really get adrenaline from weightlifting, and you seem to allude more to long distance running in your explanation.

I never said weight lifting creates a 'huge amount of stress.' I said, in some people, both cardio and weight lifting, depending on how much is done, can push some people over the edge with stress. Not everyone has the same biological threshold in the stress they can handle from exercise. A person who is pre-diabetic and has NAFL, and has a higher intra-day elevated baseline of cortisol, and is already producing more lactic acid without even exercising, is going to have a much lower threshold or starting point with the stress they can put on their bodies with exercise than someone who does not. In fact, there are many people who are in such bad shape that a 30 minute cardio session will make them so fatigued that they have to sit down or they will collapse or faint. Especially if someone is extremely overweight, all that weight they are carrying around is already putting a lot of stress on their joints and organs already, so light weight training and walking to cut down enough weight until they can handle more serious forms of exercise without putting more stress on their organs/joints is likely the better way to go.

I think your missing the point about the time example I gave in regards to weight training. 20 mins isn't very good, however just doing that 20 mintues of exercise is helping the metablosim and putting the body in a more anabolic state. No one stops weight training for a year and then places in nationals for powerlifting. What I'm saying is doing the best you can instead of just writing it off completely.

I understood your point. The point I was making is that if you cannot handle more than 20 min of exercise, you're probably so out of shape in poor health that you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. 'Helping' the metabolism with exercise is often a very subjective thing. You can also go keto and get rid of NAFLD in some cases and think you helped your metabolism but in reality you just sacrificed short term gains for longer term health.

For instance I didn't complete 1/3 of my arm workout, and took another recovery day than what was programmed. Then I did leg training and while it was rough and I wanted to quit, I managed to do the whole workout and I even felt great doing the calf exercises when 30 mins earlier I wanted to quit. And let's not forget a good weightlifting session increases dopamine which helps counteract serotonin etc
I think a key point here is I think exercise (not long distance running) is a good stress that helps burn fat, lower serotonin, heal the liver and destroy bad endotoxins and sweat out the gunk, help with blood sugar and lower adrenaline ;
you are saying it's an added pressure on the body that's ultimately raising adrenaline and you can't exercise until you can perform a whole 1 hour training session and recover easily. So I see lifting as a tool to help get health back on track and you disagree and think it shouldn't be done because it will actually make things worse

You can also feel very good from fasting for a long period of time due to elevated cortisol. Doesn't mean much necessarily just because you 'feel good' after an exercise. Feeling good is important, and listening to the body is essential, but also understanding false 'feel good' signals that elevated stress hormones give is also important. That said, I never said one should not exercise. I said it is very individual and some people would be better to start out walking and inclemently move up to light weights, etc., accordingly. I think you largely missed the original point I was making. A runners high, even with fasted cardio, make some people feel 'amazing' in the morning, but it is usually adrenaline/cortisol which is produced to breakdown amino acids fatty acids for energy, etc.
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
You really haven’t proven my point of not exercising. I don’t support fasting or long distance running. You’re basically saying that since I didn’t do the whole workout but instead only 20 mins shows I shouldn’t work out in the first place is what I disagree with. Also , how is that different from doing less intensive exercise like walking or light dumbbells, that’s nearly the same principle.
I personally disagree that if someone is going to collapse from exhaustion from 30 mins of cardio, that cardio made their health worse, personally I think it helped the body deal with inflammation and and was prometabolic.
I also disagree that feeling good from moderate cardio training or lifting is in anyway similar to high adrenaline /cortisol and I disagree that feeling better is a bad way to measure success, consierding peaty views on dopamine vs serotonin and anhedonia

I’ll let you deal the majorly obese people though
 

Runenight201

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
1,942
You really haven’t proven my point of not exercising. I don’t support fasting or long distance running. You’re basically saying that since I didn’t do the whole workout but instead only 20 mins shows I shouldn’t work out in the first place is what I disagree with. Also , how is that different from doing less intensive exercise like walking or light dumbbells, that’s nearly the same principle.
I personally disagree that if someone is going to collapse from exhaustion from 30 mins of cardio, that cardio made their health worse, personally I think it helped the body deal with inflammation and and was prometabolic.
I also disagree that feeling good from moderate cardio training or lifting is in anyway similar to high adrenaline /cortisol and I disagree that feeling better is a bad way to measure success, consierding peaty views on dopamine vs serotonin and anhedonia

I’ll let you deal the majorly obese people though

I’m a trainer at a gym, and I see people damaging themselves with exercise all the time. Often times I’ll cut a training session short because I notice them becoming slower, confused, difficult speaking. They often never want to stop, and continue to want to push themselves through it, adopting a macho no pain/no gain attitude, when it’s very evident to me that they are degenerating. This happens fairly quickly if they are very unhealthy, often after giving them 1-2 exercises that were a little strenuous. They come in week after week, the body never changes. They always complain of their stomach fat, and joint pains, poor sleep, low energy. So they stress themselves harder at the gym, thinking they’ll exercise it all away. It did get me down once to see, and it’s difficult to help them because they’ve become entrenched in modern dietary guidelines of what’s healthy.

I noticed this in myself when I was unhealthier. Intense exercise really stressed me out, I would notice hair falling out at the gym, excessive sweating, feeling very unwell.

Exercise is a wonderful life enhancer when healthy. The muscular pumps, sprinting, moving, competing, it’s all a great feeling. However, it needs to be enjoyable. Exercise shouldn’t ever suck. I’ll only exercise when it feels enjoyable, and it will feel fantastic. The only way it can feel good is to have a proper functioning body with a proper diet. Dragging yourself through a workout is a mistake imo.
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
I’m a trainer at a gym, and I see people damaging themselves with exercise all the time. Often times I’ll cut a training session short because I notice them becoming slower, confused, difficult speaking. They often never want to stop, and continue to want to push themselves through it, adopting a macho no pain/no gain attitude, when it’s very evident to me that they are degenerating. This happens fairly quickly if they are very unhealthy, often after giving them 1-2 exercises that were a little strenuous. They come in week after week, the body never changes. They always complain of their stomach fat, and joint pains, poor sleep, low energy. So they stress themselves harder at the gym, thinking they’ll exercise it all away. It did get me down once to see, and it’s difficult to help them because they’ve become entrenched in modern dietary guidelines of what’s healthy.

I noticed this in myself when I was unhealthier. Intense exercise really stressed me out, I would notice hair falling out at the gym, excessive sweating, feeling very unwell.

Exercise is a wonderful life enhancer when healthy. The muscular pumps, sprinting, moving, competing, it’s all a great feeling. However, it needs to be enjoyable. Exercise shouldn’t ever suck. I’ll only exercise when it feels enjoyable, and it will feel fantastic. The only way it can feel good is to have a proper functioning body with a proper diet. Dragging yourself through a workout is a mistake imo.
I don't really care because as I said my recovery from these hormone imblanaces/drugs has been better from exercise. If you want to live in Peatland and think walking 8 miles everday is better for your body over lifting go ahead....
Those people you are referncing obviously have bad dietary habits, as you should use recovery days and you should be gaining at least 10lbs a year wieghtrraining. Those pople were probably underfed, the stress hormones causing bodyfat and that was their goal was to lose fat
I don't even compare to these people....
Honestly you are very weak if weight training makes your hair fall out, etc ,etc no regular male in their 20s/30s with a decent well rounded diet experiences this
 

Runenight201

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
1,942
I don't really care because as I said my recovery from these hormone imblanaces/drugs has been better from exercise. If you want to live in Peatland and think walking 8 miles everday is better for your body over lifting go ahead....
Those people you are referncing obviously have bad dietary habits, as you should use recovery days and you should be gaining at least 10lbs a year wieghtrraining. Those pople were probably underfed, the stress hormones causing bodyfat and that was their goal was to lose fat
I don't even compare to these people....
Honestly you are very weak if weight training makes your hair fall out, etc ,etc no regular male in their 20s/30s with a decent well rounded diet experiences this

Exercise on top of a good diet produces better health, but it cannot happen the other way around. The base block in the pyramid of health is the diet. Exercise can certainly work to build more androgenic effects, masculine body, normalize hormones, etc... but it’s all not useful if the body is sick and degenerative from a poor diet.

I was strong. I had muscle mass. But I was sick. I was stressed. I slept poorly, and the exercise made my energy needs higher. I kept eating more food because I was hungry from the intense lifting, but the food I ate was wrong, and I was bloated, fat, and low energy. I kept working out to be strong, and kept repeating the cycle.
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,627
Location
Germany
Exercise on top of a good diet produces better health, but it cannot happen the other way around. The base block in the pyramid of health is the diet. Exercise can certainly work to build more androgenic effects, masculine body, normalize hormones, etc... but it’s all not useful if the body is sick and degenerative from a poor diet.

I was strong. I had muscle mass. But I was sick. I was stressed. I slept poorly, and the exercise made my energy needs higher. I kept eating more food because I was hungry from the intense lifting, but the food I ate was wrong, and I was bloated, fat, and low energy. I kept working out to be strong, and kept repeating the cycle.

Yeah totally agree. In my current state of health, a normal weight-lifting will put me in a hibernation state for up to a week. @ShotTrue, I think your background just makes it hard for you to understand how damaged a person‘s metabolism/health can be.
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
Exercise on top of a good diet produces better health, but it cannot happen the other way around. The base block in the pyramid of health is the diet. Exercise can certainly work to build more androgenic effects, masculine body, normalize hormones, etc... but it’s all not useful if the body is sick and degenerative from a poor diet.

I was strong. I had muscle mass. But I was sick. I was stressed. I slept poorly, and the exercise made my energy needs higher. I kept eating more food because I was hungry from the intense lifting, but the food I ate was wrong, and I was bloated, fat, and low energy. I kept working out to be strong, and kept repeating the cycle.
The only mistake you made was in poor food. It takes a lot of energy to add muscle mass and recover thus the higher food requirement. Exercise still reduces adrenaline and inflammation and balances hormones as you said, thus it is a tool be get healthier. And someone who eats a poor diet and exercises is someone who is still healthier than a person with the same diet who doesnt, at least my understanding
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
Yeah totally agree. In my current state of health, a normal weight-lifting will put me in a hibernation state for up to a week. @ShotTrue, I think your background just makes it hard for you to understand how damaged a person‘s metabolism/health can be.
I suppose. To me even once a week would benefit your health, I don't see the downside. If my estrogen/progesterone is too low, or my estrogen is too high my recovery rate is always better if I exercise as much as I can (however many rest days I need in between).
I understand if such intense exercise is impossible at a certain point in poor health, I'm arguing people completely put it off like you need to be perfect health to exercise, where as once you gain enough energy exercise will absolutely advance you in faster towards a goal or good hormones, low inflammation, androgenicity.

I can't remember all my posts but walking seems like a good push in the right direction.
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,627
Location
Germany
The only mistake you made was in poor food. It takes a lot of energy to add muscle mass and recover thus the higher food requirement. Exercise still reduces adrenaline and inflammation and balances hormones as you said, thus it is a tool be get healthier. And someone who eats a poor diet and exercises is someone who is still healthier than a person with the same diet who doesnt, at least my understanding

That might be solely a result of selection-bias: the healthier a person is the more likely he is to exercise compared to a sicker person (even if they eat the same diet)
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,627
Location
Germany
I suppose. To me even once a week would benefit your health, I don't see the downside. If my estrogen/progesterone is too low, or my estrogen is too high my recovery rate is always better if I exercise as much as I can (however many rest days I need in between).
I understand if such intense exercise is impossible at a certain point in poor health, I'm arguing people completely put it off like you need to be perfect health to exercise, where as once you gain enough energy exercise will absolutely advance you in faster towards a goal or good hormones, low inflammation, androgenicity.

Sure, maybe really light lifting could benefit me, have to try that. At that point I would have to bench 30 kgs total lol
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
That might be solely a result of selection-bias: the healthier a person is the more likely he is to exercise compared to a sicker person (even if they eat the same diet)
I understand that. The argument isn't how easy or likely it is to exercise. My point is intelligent exercise helps with metabolism/endocrine recovery. Let's say you cloned one person vs the other. I think the clone that exercises even 2 times a week while on the same diet would eventually gain higher energy levels and less inflammation and endocrine issues than the one who is sedentary
 

ShotTrue

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
692
Sure, maybe really light lifting could benefit me, have to try that. At that point I would have to bench 30 kgs total lol
More muscle tissue I hear helps rid the body of pufa. It definitely increases the body's ability to utilize nutrients, lowers fat and chronoic inflammation. It's like a release valve for inflammation. And there is no shame and starting at a lower point, that's what I find myself doing right now.
It was actually embarassing for me as I had to bench press 45-60lbs where I could have done 135 normally, and calf raises 100lbs less. I also had a really fat abdomen and blood sugar making me super tired. But I can tell you I felt a million times mentally better the next day, the blood sugar wasn't impacting me as much, my tire for a stomach was slimming down ever so slightly. And I did have to sleep extra long and feel tired the next day and another unintended rest day. But I feel much better than the day before or of that lifting day.
So maybe start with some dumbbell arm and back exercises, maybe some lightweight machine leg lifts from an 8-12 range. Even light dumbbell work I think would help your energy state and eventually have enough to get on a full lifting routine
 

Peater Piper

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Messages
817
That might be solely a result of selection-bias: the healthier a person is the more likely he is to exercise compared to a sicker person (even if they eat the same diet)
This has been studied a bit. At least when it comes to low or moderate intensity exercise, it seems like most people benefit, regardless of whether they're exercising by their own volition, or doing so because they were instructed to. Of course there's extreme cases where some people probably need a lot of bed rest and recovery, but even people in poor health can usually find a physical activity that stimulates them without being overly taxing.

I see a lot of people who decide they need to start exercising, usually as a New Year's resolution, or near the start of summer so they can get a beach bod. They crush themselves, often in combination with cutting calories, and after a month or two of hell, they quit. I don't see any reason for it. I think it's always worth starting out with something that's manageable, even easy. It's better than doing nothing at all, and limits can be tested (if desired) once there's a foundation built.
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,627
Location
Germany
This has been studied a bit. At least when it comes to low or moderate intensity exercise, it seems like most people benefit, regardless of whether they're exercising by their own volition, or doing so because they were instructed to. Of course there's extreme cases where some people probably need a lot of bed rest and recovery, but even people in poor health can usually find a physical activity that stimulates them without being overly taxing.

I see a lot of people who decide they need to start exercising, usually as a New Year's resolution, or near the start of summer so they can get a beach bod. They crush themselves, often in combination with cutting calories, and after a month or two of hell, they quit. I don't see any reason for it. I think it's always worth starting out with something that's manageable, even easy. It's better than doing nothing at all, and limits can be tested (if desired) once there's a foundation built.

Yeah, that‘s fair, I might be a special case, as I have CFS (almost all of the symptoms of it), one of which is „post exertional malaise“. 30 minutes of walking (eg shopping for groceries) can sometimes knock me out for one day.
 

Runenight201

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
1,942
The only mistake you made was in poor food. It takes a lot of energy to add muscle mass and recover thus the higher food requirement. Exercise still reduces adrenaline and inflammation and balances hormones as you said, thus it is a tool be get healthier. And someone who eats a poor diet and exercises is someone who is still healthier than a person with the same diet who doesnt, at least my understanding

If that were the case than obese people who exercise would lose weight, but they specifically recommend now that obese people don’t exercise because the increased energy demands causes them to eat more and gain even more weight. Light walking and movement is always beneficial, but anything that is stressful will degenerate the body without proper nutrition.
 

Tarmander

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,763
Best line in this thread: healthy people exercise, you can’t exercise to get healthy.

While I’m sure there are exceptions, this is the correct way to think about it.

I am much better now but I used to have terrible exercise intolerance. Even walking more then a mile or two would result in terrible insomnia. Really wrecked me.
 

Waynish

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
2,206
I've gone from having a flat stomach to bloated and inflamed and back to having a flat stomach before... I never have stayed bloated/inflamed for long before - but I can tell you that removing inflammation is the first order of business for reversing the belly fat phenomena.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom