Who else is limiting phosphorus? Not just for CKD anymore

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat has discussed how with aging we accumulate phosphorus. Yet his beloved dairy is very high in P.

I've been getting a lot of my nutrition from nixtamalized corn meal, which is very low in P, and so is rice when compared to dairy and meat products.

Perhaps a good strategy? Who else is limiting phosphorus as an experiment?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Dr. Peat has discussed how with aging we accumulate phosphorus. Yet his beloved dairy is very high in P.

I've been getting a lot of my nutrition from nixtamalized corn meal, which is very low in P, and so is rice when compared to dairy and meat products.

Perhaps a good strategy? Who else is limiting phosphorus as an experiment?

I e-mailed him about the phosphorus in milk and he said the calcium balances it. He said the same about the oats.

 

[Razvan]

In one of the last interviews with Patrick Timpone he said that the amount of phosphorus doesnt matter as long as the calcium to phosphate ratio is atleast 1:1.
A lot of vegans eat low phosphorus and still they are aged and deprived,this shows how important is actually calcium.

 

[haidut]

Dr. Peat has discussed how with aging we accumulate phosphorus. Yet his beloved dairy is very high in P.

I've been getting a lot of my nutrition from nixtamalized corn meal, which is very low in P, and so is rice when compared to dairy and meat products.

Perhaps a good strategy? Who else is limiting phosphorus as an experiment?

Niacinamide/nicotinamide is very effective at lowering phosphorus. He mentioned in a few articles and I found several human trials with CKD administering niacinamide and having phosphorus decline. In those studies, niacinamide also lowered PTH, which is also beneficial (both for CKD and general health).

 

[ecstatichamster]

Niacinamide/nicotinamide is very effective at lowering phosphorus. He mentioned in a few articles and I found several human trials with CKD administering niacinamide and having phosphorus decline. In those studies, niacinamide also lowered PTH, which is also beneficial (both for CKD and general health).

Thank you! And you had mentioned a year or so ago that fructose can help phosphorus excretion. Do you think this is true, still? How does the niacinamide work? Does it help the kidneys excrete phosphorus, or does it work through some other mecahnism @haidut

 

[ecstatichamster]

I e-mailed him about the phosphorus in milk and he said the calcium balances it. He said the same about the oats.

interesting. I have heard him say that too. But I wonder. BTW, oatmeal has a lot of phosphorus and not much calcium.

I wonder though if there is an advantage to limiting phosphorus, and I suspect there is.

 

[haidut]

Thank you! And you had mentioned a year or so ago that fructose can help phosphorus excretion. Do you think this is true, still? How does the niacinamide work? Does it help the kidneys excrete phosphorus, or does it work through some other mecahnism @haidut

Yes, fructose (and possibly trehalose as well) do lower phosphorus. As far as niacinamide - the exact mechanism is not known but at the very least it consumes phosphorus in the process of converting into NAD. The NAD molecule has 2 phosphorus atoms.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yes, fructose (and possibly trehalose as well) do lower phosphorus. As far as niacinamide - the exact mechanism is not known but at the very least it consumes phosphorus in the process of converting into NAD. The NAD molecule has 2 phosphorus atoms.

thank you!!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

interesting. I have heard him say that too. But I wonder. BTW, oatmeal has a lot of phosphorus and not much calcium.

I wonder though if there is an advantage to limiting phosphorus, and I suspect there is.

I know I didn’t think there was much calcium in oatmeal either. Two different packages of mine say only 20mg, so I don’t know where it is coming from.

“Not only is oatmeal a great source of fiber, but it's an excellent source of calcium. One cup of oatmeal boasts 100-150 mg of calcium.”

7 ways to get calcium that don't involve dairy

Calcium has plenty of benefits and it's possible to get calcium without dairy. Here's how you can add more calcium to your diet without drinking milk, perfect for any regular or vegan diet.

www.insider.com

 

[tankasnowgod]

Dr. Peat has discussed how with aging we accumulate phosphorus. Yet his beloved dairy is very high in P.

I've been getting a lot of my nutrition from nixtamalized corn meal, which is very low in P, and so is rice when compared to dairy and meat products.

Perhaps a good strategy? Who else is limiting phosphorus as an experiment?

I think the Calcium to Phosporus ratio is probably more important than just limiting phosphorus itself. William Brown ate about 4 grams of phosphorus a day, and his phosporus levels appeared to decline during the experiment-

William Brown ate 5g of Calcium and 4g of Phosphourus a day......

.... during the Extremely Low Fat experiment, based on current day values for skim milk. Ever since Haidut mentioned the "Bioenergetic Burger," I've been thinking more about the importance of the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio. I realized that the Ca:P ratio in the WIlliam Brown experiment would...

raypeatforum.com

Also, Calcium Carbonate is used as a phosphate binder, so it would seem to have some merit.

 

[LucyL]

I know I didn’t think there was much calcium in oatmeal either. Two different packages of mine say only 20mg, so I don’t know where it is coming from.

“Not only is oatmeal a great source of fiber, but it's an excellent source of calcium. One cup of oatmeal boasts 100-150 mg of calcium.”

7 ways to get calcium that don't involve dairy

Calcium has plenty of benefits and it's possible to get calcium without dairy. Here's how you can add more calcium to your diet without drinking milk, perfect for any regular or vegan diet.

www.insider.com

Are they fortified?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Are they fortified?

Not mine.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Are they fortified?

I think I was looking at oat bran, which is very high in phosphorus and low in calcium, says cronometer. And cronometer says oat meal is high in phosphorus and low in calcium.

100g:

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I think I was looking at oat bran, which is very high in phosphorus and low in calcium, says cronometer. And cronometer says oat meal is high in phosphorus and low in calcium.

100g:

So where in the word is that oatmeal with the high calcium?

 

[ecstatichamster]

So where in the word is that oatmeal with the high calcium?

I don't see it. That's the problem. I don't think any grains are high in calcium.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I don't see it. That's the problem. I don't think any grains are high in calcium.

To your question I do limit my phosphorus intake, limiting meat, grains and even macadamia nuts. They play out terribly in my teeth and hair, and maybe skin too.

 

[dfspcc20]

@haidut could niacinamide potentially lower phosphorus too much?

 

[xeliex]

Most of the phosphate binders dialysis units use are calcium based.
Calcium acetate and calcium carbonate are prescribed to patients to take with meals to lower phosphate levels.
Yet at the same time, kidney organizations are recommending not using calcium based binders with the CKD population and limiting dairy.
There is also the concept of Ca x P and the higher risk factor of calcifications with a high ratio.

https://kdigo.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017-KDIGO-CKD-MBD-GL-Update.pdf

Take those guidelines for what they are worth. Many nephrologists still prefer calcium based binders and question the new(ish) recommendations.

Phosphates are everywhere - it seems that at least for the healthy population, calcium will help lower absorption (more data vs niacinamide but why not combine both). Calcium also helps lower PTH which phosphorus elevates.

 

[eimearrose]

What about adding calcium carbonate/egg shell powder to oatmeal or oatbran? I might try this with my occasional oat bran bowls. I can't imagine it will change the taste.

 

[peateats1]

I've ended up with low phosphorus before, to the extent the er gave me a phosphorus supplement to take. Idk this peat diet has some serious flaws imo.