White Tongue

Pliskin

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Feb 15, 2016
Messages
9
Does anyone know how to transform a gnarly white coated tongue to a nice healthy pink tongue? It seems like no one has the answer.

It would be great to hear from anyone who has actually done this or from anyone that has noticed things (diets, foods, times, combination of foods etc. ) that affect the gnarliness and whiteness/pinkness of their tongue.
 

dadon

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Dec 30, 2012
Messages
6
It´s really hard to figure out. I got this reply from Peat when I asked him about a geographic tongue and dental health (he had mentioned similar things before):
"There are some strong nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth, affecting surfaces and periodontal health, tooth sensitivity, etc. I knew a dentist who stopped doing periodontal surgery when he found that his patients were more easily cured with a laxative. Camphoric acid has been used as an intestinal disinfectant to remedy problems such as coated or sore tongue or bad breath. The tetracyclines have similar effects. Vitamins D and K are important." RP

I was already taking Vitamin D so i bought some Vitamin k from Haidut. I´ve been taking it for a few days and it seems to make my gums less red, there seems to be less built-up from all the sugar and milk than before and my tongue doesn´t look that bad anymore (although there is still some white, but not the escalated type of overgrowth as before).

I might try tetracyclines sometime again, but Peat has mentioned that the quinones (Vitamin k, tetracycline etc.) all have similar structures and functions with different numbers of rings .
 

Pliskin

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Feb 15, 2016
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9
Hi dadon,

I've not heard or read anything from RP on white tongue. I was hoping he'd have a different take on it the standard "it's Candida" probably a metabolic approach or something.
Is this the only time you've known him to comment on white tongue?
 

m_arch

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Jan 5, 2016
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483
Location
Perth, Australia
Rinsing after eating or drinking, shredded and rinsed raw carrot, niacinamide, and methylene blue;both as a mouth wash and consumed, helped my case.
Is yours gone for good meatbag?

I found that opening a probiotic capsule and emptying it in my mouth, swishing it around for 10min or so before swallowing made my tounge pink and the white coating was completely gone.

The only problem with this approach was that i'd have to do it permanently - every day. The white stuff would just keep coming back. Anyway i'm taking vitamin k2 now, both from estroban and carlsons mk-4 supplement. I might empty one of carlsons on my tongue now and swish and report back. Lol.
 

narouz

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Jul 22, 2012
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4,429
I think tongue coatings can come from different things.
So I wouldn't claim to have the answer to all coated tongues.
But in my case, it seems pretty clear the coating is yeast/fungi/Candida.

I've been trying to figure out what's going on with my health for a couple years now.
The coated tongue is probably the least of my worries.o_O
But my tongue changes with different things I try.

I started having trouble with the coating going back like 3 years ago.
Charlie and I were experimenting with antibiotics, ala Peat.
Well: I was doing it ala Peat--short duration.:D
Charlie did a more hardcore, longer version.

But after that first experiment, we both wound up with coated tongues.
I can't remember what Charlie did about his.
For me, it never went away for like 2 or 3 years.
Until recently.

I found, first, that certain probiotics really cleaned it.
S. boulardi, L. rhamnosus, B. coagulans...and another one I can't think of now.
I'm pretty sure S. boulardii is the most effective single one.
But I think it works best when I combine them.

S. boulardii has been studied for its effects combating fungi/yeast/candida.

So...diagnosis by treatment, this pointed me toward fungi/yeast as the culprit.
Not just in my mouth, but in my gut.

Recently I've begun experimenting with Nystatin--oral capsules.
Nystatin has no antibiotic effect--just anti-fungal.
After taking Nystatin for a day or two my tongue clears right up.

This is not a beautiful situation to find oneself in as a Peatian,
because Peat doesn't seem to think candida is real--
as a disease centered in the gut with systemic effects.
In spite of swimming against this Peatian current for years,
I can't escape the strong suspicion that I am afflicted with a fungal overgrowth in my gut.
And it has had bad, serious effects on my health.
I'm about halfway back to feeling good after addressing my disease as fungal in nature.
Just started a 3 month Nystatin thing about a week or two ago.

The tongue thing...it's like the tip of the iceberg to me.
It seems to tell me what's going on down in my gut.

With the ginger candies...
sometimes while treating my ostensible candida with S. boulardii
or with the small amount of Nystatin I first bought as an experiment,
my tongue would sometimes have a very light coating--not completely pink.
I noticed that after I sucked on/chewed a lot of the ginger candies
my tongue was super pink and clean.
As Dan noted above, I came across stuff online about ginger's anti-candida properties.

Edit: L. reuteri was the other probiotic strain I was trying to think of, above.
 
Last edited:

squanch

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May 7, 2014
Messages
398
Like some people have already written, certain things will clear it up temporarily. It will come back though once you stop doing whatever you're doing, so I really don't see the point in trying to "kill" it.

There are some strong nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth
Exactly my experience.
Whenever something doesn't digest quickly and easily, the coating on the tongue will get worse. Not chewing properly (especially starches) and drinking to many liquids during meals are the main offenders for me. Milk will pretty much always make it worse, especially straight out of the fridge.

The healthy human body is perfectly able to control the yeast/bacteria population itself. I feel like the white tongue is just a sign of a mild overgrowth of bacteria/yeasts in your intestine (due to undigested food that would otherwise just pass through you) which somehow also shows up in your mouth due to the above mentioned " nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth".

So I guess the main focus should be on creating easily digestible meals (whatever works for the individual, but I think lower liquids is a good starting point for most people), chewing very well and somehow improving the digestive function of the body (which essentially comes down to general energy production again)
 

squanch

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May 7, 2014
Messages
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Peat doesn't seem to think candida is real--
as a disease centered in the gut with systemic effects.
Like I said in that other thread, because it's not.

That whole candida alternative health scene is absolutely ridiculous, lacking even basic understanding of human physiology.
Yeasts are a natural part of everyones body , your body can regulate them itself just fine. If there really is a mild bacterial/fungal overgrowth and you aren't immunosuppressed, there usually is a reason for that (my guess is improperly digested food, see my post above)
The whole "kill it with fire" approach won't work.

Why don't you just get your stool sample tested for candida albicans if you're so sure about it. Or a colonoscopy.

Or talk a little bit with a doctor or a nurse about the topic. Most of them have seen actual systemic candidiasis. It's not something you just walk around with, those people are on the brink of death with a severely suppressed immune system.

Yes yes I know, yours is different. One of those nasty hidden candida biofilms probably, the ones the medical establishment doesn't want us to know about...

Also I'm really not trying to be a **** here, I just wasted a lot of my time with that whole topic in the past and it led me absolutely nowhere. Just trying to prevent people from making the same mistake.

But your case is totally different, I know I know... it's the answer to all your problems :ss2
 
Last edited:

narouz

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Like I said in that other thread, because it's not.

That whole candida alternative health scene is absolutely ridiculous, lacking even basic understanding of human physiology.
Yeasts are a natural part of everyones body , your body can regulate them itself just fine. If there really is a mild bacterial/fungal overgrowth and you aren't immunosuppressed, there usually is a reason for that (my guess is improperly digested food, see my post above)
The whole "kill it with fire" approach won't work.

Why don't you just get your stool sample tested for candida albicans if you're so sure about it. Or a colonoscopy.

Or talk a little bit with a doctor or a nurse about the topic. Most of them have seen actual systemic candidiasis. It's not something you just walk around with, those people are on the brink of death with a severely suppressed immune system.

Yes yes I know, yours is different. One of those nasty hidden candida biofilms probably, the ones the medical establishment doesn't want us to know about...

Also I'm really not trying to be a **** here, I just wasted a lot of my time with that whole topic in the past and it led me absolutely nowhere. Just trying to prevent people from making the same mistake.

But your case is totally different, I know I know... it's the answer to all your problems :ss2

Ya know, I worked in a health food store back in the '80's,
and that was about when the whole Candida thing started circulating.
I think me and my friends casually tried some of the various remedies/strategies back then,
but of course the diet was too much.

Since that time and up until recently
I had the same Certainty about Candida that you display now.
In fact, my own certainty, combined with Peat's dismissal,
caused me to rule out fungi/yeast as a possible culprit for about 2 years.

Accidentally I found that S. boulardii cleaned my tongue after 2 years and made me feel a lot better.
Then I found that Nystatin did the same thing.

Time to ditch the Certainty, maybe?
I don't think Peat is a fan of it.
 

narouz

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Jul 22, 2012
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Different Brain Regions are Infected with Fungi in Alzheimer’s Disease : Scientific Reports

"Abstract
The possibility that Alzheimer’s disease (AD) has a microbial aetiology has been proposed by several researchers. Here, we provide evidence that tissue from the central nervous system (CNS) of AD patients contain fungal cells and hyphae. Fungal material can be detected both intra- and extracellularly using specific antibodies against several fungi. Different brain regions including external frontal cortex, cerebellar hemisphere, entorhinal cortex/hippocampus and choroid plexus contain fungal material, which is absent in brain tissue from control individuals. Analysis of brain sections from ten additional AD patients reveals that all are infected with fungi. Fungal infection is also observed in blood vessels, which may explain the vascular pathology frequently detected in AD patients. Sequencing of fungal DNA extracted from frozen CNS samples identifies several fungal species. Collectively, our findings provide compelling evidence for the existence of fungal infection in the CNS from AD patients, but not in control individuals."
 

m_arch

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Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
483
Location
Perth, Australia
Whenever something doesn't digest quickly and easily, the coating on the tongue will get worse. Not chewing properly (especially starches) and drinking to many liquids during meals are the main offenders for me. Milk will pretty much always make it worse, especially straight out of the fridge.

The healthy human body is perfectly able to control the yeast/bacteria population itself. I feel like the white tongue is just a sign of a mild overgrowth of bacteria/yeasts in your intestine (due to undigested food that would otherwise just pass through you) which somehow also shows up in your mouth due to the above mentioned " nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth".

Doesn't peat talk about milk and orange juice being digested really quickly and easily because they're liquids?
 

meatbag

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Jan 15, 2016
Messages
1,771
"There are some strong nervous and circulatory interactions between the intestine and the mouth, affecting surfaces and periodontal health, tooth sensitivity, etc. I knew a dentist who stopped doing periodontal surgery when he found that his patients were more easily cured with a laxative. Camphoric acid has been used as an intestinal disinfectant to remedy problems such as coated or sore tongue or bad breath. The tetracyclines have similar effects. Vitamins D and K are important."-Ray Peat (from email thread)
 

Toni

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
5
Ya know, I worked in a health food store back in the '80's,
and that was about when the whole Candida thing started circulating.
I think me and my friends casually tried some of the various remedies/strategies back then,
but of course the diet was too much.

Since that time and up until recently
I had the same Certainty about Candida that you display now.
In fact, my own certainty, combined with Peat's dismissal,
caused me to rule out fungi/yeast as a possible culprit for about 2 years.

Accidentally I found that S. boulardii cleaned my tongue after 2 years and made me feel a lot better.
Then I found that Nystatin did the same thing.

Time to ditch the Certainty, maybe?
I don't think Peat is a fan of it.
Narouz, how did you take the S. boulardii, did you open the capsule and rinse with it, or take the capsule?
 

narouz

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Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Narouz, how did you take the S. boulardii, did you open the capsule and rinse with it, or take the capsule?

I did both--I opened the caps and let it dissolve in my mouth and swished it around and held it for a while.
And I took the capsules as normally.
And here's a weird (and expensive) twist:
I emptied my Syntol capsules into a separate bottle, keeping the special acid resisting capsules.
Then I loaded them with S. boulardii and took them that way, sometimes.
S. boulardii is supposed to survive the stomach's acid unprotected,
but I figured I'd really try to get it down there at the end of the small intestine
where some say fungi really like to make a stronghold.

Sometimes I took S. boulardii in combo with the other probiotics I noted above.
Sometimes by itself.

I also experimented with some of the "prebiotic" fibers like FOS and Inulin.
I didn't do that experiment very thoroughly, so inconclusive.
But I will say it didn't seem to hurt me any.

BTW, Toni: do you still have your appendix?
 

Toni

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Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
5
Narouz, I have my appendix, I have everything but my tonsils and wisdom teeth. :wink
 

JohnBonham

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
57
Brush your tongue with salt, seriously! I know it's only a temporary fix, but it worked like magic for me. I just used some Himalayan salt I had in the cupboard.
 
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