White Moons On Nails - Possible Iron Overload?

[Mark3279]

Hey first time posting but recently ran an experiment on myself and thought I would share my results.

I've noticed that there is a correlation between the white moons on my nails and my iron intake. I purposely ate high amounts of organic grass fed red meat in the form of lamb, beef, and deer. After about 3 weeks the white moons on my left hand completely disappeared except for the thumb. The right hand stayed pretty much the same.

After cutting out all red meat and switching to white meat, the white moons returned after about a week.

Is it possible that the white moons on our hands could indicate our iron status? Im assuming having white moons on all fingers nails is an indicator of better health.

Also, I noticed increasing my sea salt intake seems to really bring out the white moons on my finger nails.

Lastly, I've noticed that eating beef liver creates hyperactivity in my body. I went through a phase of eating beef liver to try and counteract the possible high iron content. Beef liver is a good source of copper so I thought it may help counteract the iron. Interestingly, chicken liver does not create the same degree of anxiousness or hyperactivity in my body but still.creates some low levels.

Again, figured Id put my experiment up here as it may be helpful. Would also like to know if anyone has noticed anything similar.

 

[foodandtheworld]

I am not sure if they have anything to do with iron by itself. I have even seen that their disappearance is linked to too low iron/anemia.
I am very low in iron (probably too low based on some symptoms), but the lunula (white moons) on my left hand are barely visible. The right hand ones are more apparent.
Ray Peat has said he doesn't know what they mean: "I always had them before I took thyroid, have never had one since then. I don't know what they mean." Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

FWIW, I didn't have any at all about a year ago, when I was very malnourished. They have slowly appeared as my health has improved. I was quite low iron during the period of improvement, as well as low iron prior to that.

I haven't seen a definite explanation of what they are linked to.

According to this presentation from a doctor at a medical school, they are linked to anemia or malnutrition (page 24 on the PDF): https://med.virginia.edu/dom/wp-content/uploads/sites/210/2015/11/NailExamination.pdf

Another poster here observed that his son's lunula disappeared after he began a vegetarian diet, and returned after eating more protein/meat: Lunula / Thyroid Function/ General Health

My intuition is similar to yours in that they reflect general health/good thyroid functioning/replete nutrition, but Ray Peat's example of his disappearing after taking thyroid might show otherwise.

This textbook states "the lunula becomes smaller or absent in old age." (Nails - Clinical Methods - NCBI Bookshelf) If I understand correctly, Peat sees aging more as chronic systemic stress and disorganization in the organism than anything inherent in the body, so perhaps this would show the lack of lunula being a sign of stress?

Absent lunula was common in hemodialysis patients compared to control: Nail disorders in patients with chronic renal failure undergoing hemodialysis. - PubMed - NCBI

However, in this letter from some doctors ("Importance of visible lunula in healthy and diseased fingernail plates." page 330), visible lunula was also found with other nail disorders, so perhaps its visibility in and of itself is not necessarily a sign of good health: Sci-Hub | Importance of visible lunula in healthy and diseased fingernail plates | 10.1046/j.1468-3083.2000.00096-13.x

According to this one study of babies, half of apparently health babies had lunula, half didn't: Nail features in healthy term newborns: a single-centre observational study of 52 cases. - PubMed - NCBI

Half of the elderly Egyptians observed in this study had decreased visibility of their lunula: Nail changes and disorders in elderly Egyptians. - PubMed - NCBI

This Chinese study found that absent lunula was associated with severe depression: The association between absent lunula and depression in depressive outpatients: a case-control study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Sheila]

Dear foodandtheworld,
Thank you for this interesting set of posts, I have always wondered about lunulae wrt health and it seems (searching this forum more too) for some the return of lunulae is associated with health improvements but in others the association is not so clear. Most people associate them with their youth but not as they grow older. Reminds me of hair!
Thank you again
Sheila

 

[foodandtheworld]

Hi Sheila, I am glad the information was interesting. I am also reminded of hair. A supposed cosmetic outgrowth but one that I think can be very reflective of underlying health. From what I have skimmed, lunula also features prominently in traditional Chinese medicine: http://qifullife.com/lunula-health-condition/
And Ayurveda (according to this page, it is linked to poor metabolism, which is interesting from a Peat perspective): Ayurvedic Nail Analysis: What do your nails say about your health? - Svastha Ayurveda

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is interesting. I used to have very high iron levels, but keep them under control with blood donation. I have big half moons on both thumbs, but very tiny ones on my fingers. I don't have any idea what they were when I was seriously iron loaded.

I am almost due for another blood donation, I will keep an eye out for any changes.

If you've been on the IBT thread, Andrew Fletcher says that sleeping inclined can bring back those half moons over time. I've been doing it for 6 months now, but only notice a slight improvement (but it is noticeable).

Increasing B12 is also supposed to improve status..... at least according to general knowledge on the internet (for whatever that is worth).

 

[Peater Piper]

Not much to add except anecdotal evidence. I've never had visible lunulae except for a trace amount on my thumbs, and my ferritin trends on the low side. Routine blood work has never indicated obvious anemia, but I certainly wouldn't say my health is thriving.

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I am fairly sure they are indicative of good thyroid function / metabolism.

Mine have been faint for the past years, and recently as I improved my thyroid function, they started becoming visible on several fingers, along with my eyebrows thickening and facial skin improving. Having them is a positive sign, I am almost certain. Everything that boosts thyroid function always made them more prominent.

 

[ExD]

Hey first time posting but recently ran an experiment on myself and thought I would share my results.

I've noticed that there is a correlation between the white moons on my nails and my iron intake. I purposely ate high amounts of organic grass fed red meat in the form of lamb, beef, and deer. After about 3 weeks the white moons on my left hand completely disappeared except for the thumb. The right hand stayed pretty much the same.

After cutting out all red meat and switching to white meat, the white moons returned after about a week.

Is it possible that the white moons on our hands could indicate our iron status? Im assuming having white moons on all fingers nails is an indicator of better health.

Also, I noticed increasing my sea salt intake seems to really bring out the white moons on my finger nails.

Lastly, I've noticed that eating beef liver creates hyperactivity in my body. I went through a phase of eating beef liver to try and counteract the possible high iron content. Beef liver is a good source of copper so I thought it may help counteract the iron. Interestingly, chicken liver does not create the same degree of anxiousness or hyperactivity in my body but still.creates some low levels.

Again, figured Id put my experiment up here as it may be helpful. Would also like to know if anyone has noticed anything similar.

i've heard it's indicative of low copper which would make sense since red meat is high in zinc which competes with copper

i am in exact same boat, upping liver dark choc and mushroom intake atm to see if it is copper or not. i miss my little moons :<

 

[Antonello]

I think they are linked to methylation because when I take B2 my nails start to clear up.
But could be also the iron because B2 is involved with iron metabolism.

 

[Antonello]

I think they are linked to methylation because when I take B2 my nails start to clear up and the lunula became wider.
But could be also the iron because B2 is involved with iron metabolism.

 

[sunraiser]

i've heard it's indicative of low copper which would make sense since red meat is high in zinc which competes with copper

i am in exact same boat, upping liver dark choc and mushroom intake atm to see if it is copper or not. i miss my little moons :<

I think low copper makes the most sense in this person's case (as a direct result of the dietary change). However, often copper status is more of a reflection of metabolic health.

Copper uptake requires adequate liver and adrenal function, so often a person with poor metabolic health won't be able to uptake (or dispose of) large amounts of copper.

This could be limited by any of the methylation cofactors involved in liver detox (as per antonello), or drinking too much, or over stressing, stimulant abuse, undereating etc etc. So many factors can impact liver and adrenal function.

It's important not to just jam down more copper in most cases (listen to cravings) as, unless you have a mega restrictive diet, copper intake alone may not be a particularly good reflection of what your overall "copper status" is likely to be.

**edit: iron uptake is so closely tied to copper that excess zinc is very likely to impact the status of both!

 

[InChristAlone]

I'm fairly certain Peat answered the question on white moons and said that his disappeared with good thyroid.

 

[magnesiumania]

i've heard it's indicative of low copper which would make sense since red meat is high in zinc which competes with copper

i am in exact same boat, upping liver dark choc and mushroom intake atm to see if it is copper or not. i miss my little moons :<

How does copper compete with zinc? I know zinc and iron share the same pathway of absorption and that big brother iron usually wins (hence the prevalent zinc deficiencies)

 

[Beefcake]

i've heard it's indicative of low copper which would make sense since red meat is high in zinc which competes with copper

i am in exact same boat, upping liver dark choc and mushroom intake atm to see if it is copper or not. i miss my little moons :<

I doubt it since he gets worse eating beef liver which is very high in copper several 1000% RDI. If you already have high copper ingesting more can cause anxiety and hyperexcitability. I would assume in the OPs case he’s actually in need of zinc. It’s different for everyone. Some people tend to get low copper. Some low zinc.