Which Of These Vices Is The Worst?

[cyclops]

I think Ray is not right here. Opiates have been the ONLY effective pain killers known to human kind for millenia, and even now a days I don't think there are any painkillers that can be as potent as natural or synthetic opiates. Or there are?

Good point. I wonder what Ray would say are the most appropriate means of pain control.

 

[Makrosky]

Good point. I wonder what Ray would say are the most appropriate means of pain control.

Yeah I wonder it too because AFAIK there's no strongest option.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I think Alcohol, under 3 drinks a day is fine if you are sure to get extra magnesium and b vitamins. If you are careful to stay hydrated and restore the things alcohol wipes out, like thiamine and magnesium, the addictive nature of alcohol seems to be lowered. I theorize that alcohol addiction mainly stems from nutrient depletion; Similar to how excess table sugar is health deteriorating without proper nutrition surrounding it. Alcohol has a very short half life compared to most substances of vice, and if used responsibly can help with stress, and also make a bland day feel a little more rewarding - which can prevent depression. The important thing is to take alcohol with other things which protect from endotoxin, e.g. olive oil, ginger, niacinamide, nac, if you block endotoxin damage potential alcohol is relatively harmless in responsible doses. Nicotine in moderation is also relatively safe but feels like a poor substitute for caffeine to me, it gets boring and pointless to me after a while and feels less helpful to me than caffeine. Kratom is evil, I’ve seen people behave almost as bad as heroin addicts on it, sure it is not as bad as heroin, but who wants to have to plan their entire day around a substance?

 

[cyclops]

Whiskey is simply distilled spirits aged in oak barrels for added character.

Does aging in oak barrels add that much estrogen or other negative factors? It seems clear spirits are much preferred here and by Ray.

 

[cyclops]

I think Alcohol, under 3 drinks a day is fine if you are sure to get extra magnesium and b vitamins. If you are careful to stay hydrated and restore the things alcohol wipes out, like thiamine and magnesium, the addictive nature of alcohol seems to be lowered. I theorize that alcohol addiction mainly stems from nutrient depletion; Similar to how excess table sugar is health deteriorating without proper nutrition surrounding it. Alcohol has a very short half life compared to most substances of vice, and if used responsibly can help with stress, and also make a bland day feel a little more rewarding - which can prevent depression. The important thing is to take alcohol with other things which protect from endotoxin, e.g. olive oil, ginger, niacinamide, nac, if you block endotoxin damage potential alcohol is relatively harmless in responsible doses. Nicotine in moderation is also relatively safe but feels like a poor substitute for caffeine to me, it gets boring and pointless to me after a while and feels less helpful to me than caffeine. Kratom is evil, I’ve seen people behave almost as bad as heroin addicts on it, sure it is not as bad as heroin, but who wants to have to plan their entire day around a substance?

Makes sense. I agree.

 

[Frankdee20]

I think Ray is not right here. Opiates have been the ONLY effective pain killers known to human kind for millenia, and even now a days I don't think there are any painkillers that can be as potent as natural or synthetic opiates. Or there are?

Opiates are very effective pain killers, but unfortunately they are utilized for chronic pain all too often. This creates tolerance, an increased need for higher doses to achieve the same effect. Not just the euphoric effect either. With that, comes pill shopping, as doctors can only prescribe a controlled amount. With that, comes addiction, definitely physiological dependence, and likely psychological.

 

[Frankdee20]

Other than the NMDA antagonists like Ketamine and PCP, I cannot fathom what else would kill pain as well as opiates. These are disassocive anesthetics though.

 

[michael94]

Other than the NMDA antagonists like Ketamine and PCP, I cannot fathom what else would kill pain as well as opiates. These are disassocive anesthetics though.

I remember some mirraculous claims coming up on my youtube feed about ketamine many moons ago... Idk

One of my best friends lives in Sarasota btw

 

[Frankdee20]

Does aging in oak barrels add that much estrogen or other negative factors? It seems clear spirits are much preferred here and by Ray.

For me, the congeners (by products) in dark liquors are very noticeable in contributing to hangovers. I never get hungover from clear spirits (unless I drink very fast). These darker spirits, although tastier, are tougher for the liver to metabolize

 

[Runenight201]

Is this an intellectual exercise or are the results from this discussion you’re going to implement?

All of those substances have their problems if abused, and all are perfectly safe if used responsibly, which will vary entirely based on the individual.

Opiates feel great, although I have better sense than to include them regularly in my metabolic lineup. It’s been years since I’ve dabbled tho...I may need to take a trip down memory lane.

If we’re talking about the abuse of any of these subtances, i think alcohol would be the worst. It truly brings out the worst in people, at least nicotine addicts are functional.

 

[ken]

The Peat quote is from 'Aspirin, brain and Cancer". The preceding paragraph is "When people with cancer ask for my recommendations, they usually think I'm joking when I tell them to use aspirin, and very often they don't take it, on the basis of what seems to be a very strong cultural prejudice. Several years ago, a woman whose doctors said it would be impossible to operate on her extremely painful "inflammatory breast cancer," had overnight complete relief of the pain and swelling from taking a few aspirins. The recognized anti-metastatic effect of aspirin, and its ability to inhibit the development of new blood vessels that would support the tumor's growth, make it an appropriate drug to use for pain control, even if it doesn't shrink the tumor. In studies of many kinds of tumor, though, it does cause regression, or at least slows tumor growth. And it protects against many of the systemic consequences of cancer, including wasting (cachexia), immunosuppression, and strokes. and Cancer."

 

[Frankdee20]

I think Alcohol, under 3 drinks a day is fine if you are sure to get extra magnesium and b vitamins. If you are careful to stay hydrated and restore the things alcohol wipes out, like thiamine and magnesium, the addictive nature of alcohol seems to be lowered. I theorize that alcohol addiction mainly stems from nutrient depletion; Similar to how excess table sugar is health deteriorating without proper nutrition surrounding it. Alcohol has a very short half life compared to most substances of vice, and if used responsibly can help with stress, and also make a bland day feel a little more rewarding - which can prevent depression. The important thing is to take alcohol with other things which protect from endotoxin, e.g. olive oil, ginger, niacinamide, nac, if you block endotoxin damage potential alcohol is relatively harmless in responsible doses. Nicotine in moderation is also relatively

Is this an intellectual exercise or are the results from this discussion you’re going to implement?

All of those substances have their problems if abused, and all are perfectly safe if used responsibly, which will vary entirely based on the individual.

Opiates feel great, although I have better sense than to include them regularly in my metabolic lineup. It’s been years since I’ve dabbled tho...I may need to take a trip down memory lane.

If we’re talking about the abuse of any of these subtances, i think alcohol would be the worst. It truly brings out the worst in people, at least nicotine addicts are functional.

Granted, there’s nothing good about a belligerent drunk. I would disagree and say someone out of there mind on a powerful stimulant like Cocaine or Methamphetamine has to be the worst sight ever. You’re basically psychotic at that point and extremely paranoid and likely dangerous. At least a drunk will pass out, but a Cocaine frenzy will continue indefinitely. There’s nothing functional about a meth binge or snorting the last gram of an eight ball of cocaine. You’re completely gone, think Pacino at the end of Scarface, or Sean Penn in Carlitos Way. Absolutely maniacal.

 

[cyclops]

Granted, there’s nothing good about a belligerent drunk. I would disagree and say someone out of there mind on a powerful stimulant like Cocaine or Methamphetamine has to be the worst sight ever. You’re basically psychotic at that point and extremely paranoid and likely dangerous. At least a drunk will pass out, but a Cocaine frenzy will continue indefinitely.

I think he may have been saying out of the 4 substances I mentioned in the original post.

Is this an intellectual exercise or are the results from this discussion you’re going to implement?

All of those substances have their problems if abused, and all are perfectly safe if used responsibly, which will vary entirely based on the individual.

Opiates feel great, although I have better sense than to include them regularly in my metabolic lineup. It’s been years since I’ve dabbled tho...I may need to take a trip down memory lane.

If we’re talking about the abuse of any of these subtances, i think alcohol would be the worst. It truly brings out the worst in people, at least nicotine addicts are functional.

I ask because I think any of these substances could be used for some relief during stressful periods and I was wondering which would be the least harmful if someone only wanted to use one because they can all be potentially addictive.

 

[Frankdee20]

I think he may have been saying out of the 4 substances I mentioned in the original post.



I ask because I think any of these substances could be used for some relief during stressful periods and I was wondering which would be the least harmful if someone only wanted to use one because they can all be potentially addictive.

Well then, easily a drink, and a few smokes a day. The problem with opiates for stress relief is that you’ll quickly downregulate receptors and grow tolerance and quickly find yourself with a chippie. Cocaine for stress relief ? Come on, one is too many and a thousand is never enough. LOL. IDK

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Humans have evolved with alcohol. Alcohol has been part of humanity as far back as there are records. Hard to say the same for any other intoxicant. Alcohol does bring out the worst in people, but I’ve also seen it bring out the best, it is a real double edged sword.

 

[biffbelvin]

I ask because I think any of these substances could be used for some relief during stressful periods and I was wondering which would be the least harmful if someone only wanted to use one because they can all be potentially addictive.

I think socialising with close friends and family is the best way to reduce stress, even if it's just a phone call. If you want to have a couple of drinks or cigarettes whilst doing so then go ahead, but I think that taking these substances when you're on your own sets a precedent that can easily lead to chronic use.

When I was smoking daily I found it extremely difficult to maintain healthy habits, such as frequent exercise, preparing meals (and ultimately avoiding pufa on lunch) and avoiding food I didn't react well with. I think a part of this is that those habits seemed futile because I was smoking.

 

[cyclops]

Well then, easily a drink, and a few smokes a day.

Do you think smoking organic tobacco is better than vaping nicotine overall?

 

[TeaRex14]

Hard to say, most people seem to believe Kratom is the worst. I know nothing about it, but if it's an opiate, I would probably agree with this assertion. The problem with opiates is their strong potential to be habitually used. They can also synergistically act with things like alcohol or benzos and depress your respiratory system even further, resulting in a high probability of death.

 

[TeaRex14]

I think Ray is not right here. Opiates have been the ONLY effective pain killers known to human kind for millenia, and even now a days I don't think there are any painkillers that can be as potent as natural or synthetic opiates. Or there are?

Activated cannabinoids (decarboxylated) that's been infused with coconut oil have strong pain killing properties to them, about on par with opiates. Cannabis comes with it's own set of consequences though, elevated levels of prolactin and cortisol mainly. If smoked, also elevated levels of estrogen. But the strong addictive aspect and respiratory depression isn't a problem.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I am also impressed @Frankdee20. I would like to suggest one other thought for your mind. I am now 58 years old and most of my life was a social drinker. Not an alcoholic but I looked forward to drinking at social occasions and weekends for the most part. On November 17th, 2017, I decided to go without alcohol because my health was going in the right direction and I wondered if I even needed alcohol. After a time, that message was answered clearly for me - alcohol is unnecessary. Ever since we were kids, we either saw our parents drinking or witnessed it on TV and it seemed as though you needed alcohol to have a good time in life. We were deceived by that impression imho. After being away from it for about 6 weeks, I found I was having a better time without it. At social occasions, I drink club soda and nobody even knows I am not drinking alcohol. I don't plan on ever drinking again and I am thankful for that. Also, I have no negative feelings for people who choose otherwise with respect to alcohol. Nonetheless, I am still proud that you managed to recover from your addiction.

Adding on to this a bit..... I have been doing Dry January for quite a few years now..... I think over a decade. I've also sporadically chosen to go a month (or more) without any alcohol several times during the non-January portions of those years. Some times, it was so easy, not missing anything at all. Other times, I found myself near the end of the month, just really waiting for the dry month to be over. Generally, I find the first weekend the hardest. Well, I'm 3 days into dry January this time, and don't think the first weekend is gonna be all that hard, and I'm thinking I also might go several months without drinking.

I think a few things are different this time. First, I am experimenting with a new idea in weight loss, by focusing on fixing gut issues, cleaning out the liver, raising metabolism, and blocking endotoxin, serotonin, and estrogen. Alcohol will get in the way of that, and I don't want anything to get in the way of this experiment. Second, I have done some mental rehearsal in situations when drinking would be natural, and have replaced it with a non alcoholic beverage, like soda, tonic water, or iced tea. This way, it doesn't feel like I'm giving up social events. I think is one of the biggest hurdles for many. And last, I have incorporated some of the Orthomolecular ideas when it comes to things that alcohol depletes (like the B Vitamins and such).

I think those three things (having a larger goal, mental rehearsal, and extra nutritional support) could help anyone who is looking to do dry January, or get off any addictive substance.