Where to buy bulk succinate / succinic acid in Europe?

Peroxphos

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Does someone know where to buy 500gr or 1kg of succinic acid or any succinate salt in Europe, without being a registered professional ? All vendors seem to require a professional ID.

I would like to try the pro-metabolic effects and the biofilm disruption effect.

Thanks and best regards
 

Michael Mohn

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Does someone know where to buy 500gr or 1kg of succinic acid or any succinate salt in Europe, without being a registered professional ? All vendors seem to require a professional ID.

I would like to try the pro-metabolic effects and the biofilm disruption effect.

Thanks and best regards


Don´t hold your breath for a miracle. Just another acid.
 
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Peroxphos

Peroxphos

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Thank you very much !

Yes not expecting a miracle, but an additional tool in the toolbox would be nice.

Do you know a vendor for bulk caffeine also?
 

Michael Mohn

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Thank you very much !

Yes not expecting a miracle, but an additional tool in the toolbox would be nice.

Do you know a vendor for bulk caffeine also?
S3 Chemicals has also thiamine, niacinamide, methylen blue (not sure about the purity), eugenol etc. You can also ask for rare stuff and they might make an offer if it isn't a prescription drug or very dangerous chemicals. You can read up on Phytol if you're interested we could make a bulk order. In haidut's gonadin thread you can find some information.
 
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Peroxphos

Peroxphos

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S3 Chemicals has also thiamine, niacinamide, methylen blue (not sure about the purity), eugenol etc. You can also ask for rare stuff and they might make an offer if it isn't a prescription drug or very dangerous chemicals. You can read up on Phytol if you're interested we could make a bulk order. In haidut's gonadin thread you can find some information.
Sure, I love phytol, let's do this. Thanks for the caffeine vendor by the way.
 

Michael Mohn

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Sure, I love phytol, let's do this. Thanks for the caffeine vendor by the way.
I looked up the market for phytol and there are quite some online vape/cbd stores now offering phytol. I don't have the energy at the moment to go after it but if you're interested let us know how it's going.
 

ddjd

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S3 Chemicals has also thiamine, niacinamide, methylen blue (not sure about the purity), eugenol etc. You can also ask for rare stuff and they might make an offer if it isn't a prescription drug or very dangerous chemicals. You can read up on Phytol if you're interested we could make a bulk order. In haidut's gonadin thread you can find some information.
Did you get the phytol?
What's eugenol?
 

Michael Mohn

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Did you get the phytol?
What's eugenol?
Eugenol is the main component of clove oil.
Very strong for improving blood flow, pro dopaminergic I find. Anti estrogenic apparently.

I haven't tried much new substances like phytol. S3 will only order a bigger quantity and I just want to try out a small sample. Haidut dropped phytol from his products and I have read a few studies that were less than exciting so at the moment it's on hold.
 

ddjd

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Eugenol is the main component of clove oil.
Very strong for improving blood flow, pro dopaminergic I find. Anti estrogenic apparently.

I haven't tried much new substances like phytol. S3 will only order a bigger quantity and I just want to try out a small sample. Haidut dropped phytol from his products and I have read a few studies that were less than exciting so at the moment it's on hold.
I wonder if we could get them to order a pharmaceutical grade methylene blue? What's the best way to approach them?
 

Michael Mohn

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I wonder if we could get them to order a pharmaceutical grade methylene blue? What's the best way to approach them?
Just write an email, they're happy to answer but if don't order a bigger quantity they won't take the risk to put into stock.
 

ddjd

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Eugenol is the main component of clove oil.
Very strong for improving blood flow, pro dopaminergic I find. Anti estrogenic apparently.

I haven't tried much new substances like phytol. S3 will only order a bigger quantity and I just want to try out a small sample. Haidut dropped phytol from his products and I have read a few studies that were less than exciting so at the moment it's on hold.
What were the negative studies about phytol saying?
 

ddjd

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The studies were not negative but evidence wasn't positive enough for me to invest into phytol. Especially for steroid genesis, phytol wasn't very impressive.

not impressive???



Furthermore, the same authors published a new study in which they not only reiterated their belief that phytol and GGOH would raise T levels but also did an in vivo study to confirm their results.
A novel function of geranylgeraniol in regulating testosterone production. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Testosterone and progesterone levels in I-10 cell culture mediums markedly increased in the presence of phytol and GGPP, but not in the presence of GOH. Meanwhile, FOH enhanced progesterone, but not testosterone levels. These results indicated that phytol and GGOH have similar effects on testosterone and progesterone production although, unexpectedly, GOH did not affect steroid production in I-10 cells. Recent researches have revealed the biological activity of compounds derived from the isoprenoid/cholesterol synthesis pathway. These isoprenoids, including FOH, GOH, and phytol, regulate various biological processes [47–49]. The results indicated that not only GGOH, but other isoprenoid derivatives, can enhance testosterone and progesterone levels, although the mechanisms by which they exert these effects are yet to be clarified."

"...We also found that dietary supplementation of MK-4 enhanced plasma testosterone levels in rats, without any alternation of plasma LH levels [45]. Based on the results of our cell-based experiments [32], we conducted further experiments on the effects of GGOH on testosterone production in animals. Eight-week-old Wistar male rats were purchased from SLC Japan (Shizuoka, Japan) and fed either GGOH supplemented (48.3 mg/kg of diet) or control diet for 10 days. Growth performance did not differ between both diets, but plasma testosterone levels in GGOH supplemented group were found to be elevated compared to that of control group, indicating that dietary supplementation of GGOH significantly elevates plasma testosterone levels (unpublished data, Figure 4). These findings provide novel mechanistic insights into the process of testosterone production and may be useful for the development of therapeutic strategies to counter age-associated declines in testosterone levels in men. In summary, the novel role of GGOH in steroidogenesis may bring new possibilities and could be useful in the development of therapeutics for the treatment of men with LOH."

Since the in vitro tests in the previous studies used the same concentration of phytol and GGOH (100 uM/L), we can use the new in vivo study to estimate the HED dose for phytol. The in vivo study used GGOH in a dose of 48.3 mg/kg of diet in rats, which is 4.83 mg/kg of bodyweight, which is an HED of 0.8 mg/kg. Since phytol has slightly higher molar mass than GGOH the HED for phytol would be 0.816 mg/kg and thus the 100mg a dose of Gonadin provides should be more than enough to replicate this study. As you can see from the attached image, T levels doubled and did so in just 10 days of supplementing!

Phytol - Wikipedia
Phytol is quite an interesting substances as it is a precursor to both vitamin E and K and is used as raw material by some organisms who can synthesize these vitamins endogenously. More importantly, both of these vitamins have been found to raise T levels in animal (and some human) studies, which seems to be due to the presence of that side chain (derived from phytol) attached to the quinone ring. In addition, it was also discovered that phytol is a potent aromatase inhibitor with an IC50 of just 1μM/L, which is quite easily achievable with the amounts present is our product. In fact, in this study phytol (code-named SA-20 in the study and attached screenshots) was as effective as formestane (abbreviated FOR in the study and attached screenshots) in inhibiting estradiol synthesis when used in concentration of 1μM/L (see attached image). Formestane is a steroidal aromatase inhibitor similar to but more potent than exemestane. Perhaps even more importantly, phytol reduced mRNA expression of aromatase itself for up to 24 hours, which suggests that it acts as a long lasting "suicide aromatase inhibitor" just like formestane. In concentrations of 10μM/L, phytol was again as effective as formestane in decreasing actual aromatase expression. As mentioned above, the 100mg dose of phytol per serving (8 drops) of Gonadin should achieve 30μM/L concentrations, so the methods of the study on aromatase should be quite easily replicated. Overall, the aromatase inhibition effects of phytol could very well be responsible at least partly for the observed increase in testosterone levels, in addition to the stimulation of StAR. I am not aware of any other substance that can both inhibit aromatase (and long-lasting at that) AND promote endogenous testosterone/progesterone synthesis.

Two natural products, trans-phytol and (22E)-ergosta-6,9,22-triene-3β,5α,8α-triol, inhibit the biosynthesis of estrogen in human ovarian granulosa ... - PubMed - NCBI
"...Two compounds trans-phytol (SA-20) and (22E)-ergosta-6,9,22-triene-3β,5α,8α-triol (SA-48)-were found to potently inhibit estrogen biosynthesis (IC50: 1μM and 0.5μM, respectively). Both compounds decreased aromatase mRNA and protein expression levels in KGN cells, but had no effect on the aromatase catalytic activity in aromatase-overexpressing HEK293A cells and recombinant expressed aromatase. The two compounds decreased the expression of aromatase promoter I.3/II. Neither compound affected intracellular cyclic AMP (cAMP) levels, but they inhibited the phosphorylation or protein expression of cAMP response element-binding protein (CREB). The effects of these two compounds on extracellular regulated kinase (ERK), c-Jun N-terminal kinase (JNK), p38 mitogen-activated protein kinases (MAPKs), and AKT/phosphoinositide 3-kinase (PI3K) pathway were examined."
"...In the present study out of only 5 terpenoids and 6 steroids examined, one acyclic diterpenoid (SA-20), and one functionalized ergostane steroid, SA-48, potently inhibited estrogen biosynthesis in KGN cells. Currently, these two compounds are the most potent terpenoid and steroid reported to inhibit aromatase in a cell-based assay. Phytol (SA-20) is an acyclic diterpenoid categorized as a branched-chain fatty alcohol (3,7,11,15-tetramethyldexadec 2-en-1-ol). It is found abundantly in nature as part of the chlorophyll molecule, and a relatively high amount of free phytol is present in dairy products (Brown et al., 1993). The finding in this study that phytol is a potent aromatase inhibitor gives new insight on our understanding of the beneficial effects of vegetables and fruit on human health."
"...We found that SA-20 (phytol) and SA-48 exhibited their inhbitory effect in KGN cells until 12-24 h, indicating that they modulate aromatase at the transcriptional level. This is further supported by the findings that they inhibited aromatase mRNA and protein expression."
"...In normal breast cells, aromatase expression is primarily derived from the tissue-specific promoter I.4 for transcription, whereas in cells from patients with breast cancer, the expression is primarily derived from the utilization of promoter I.3/II. As a result, estrogen biosynthesis sqitches from regulation by a promoter controlled primarily by glucocorticoids and cytokines to regulation by a promoter controlled through cAMP-mediated pathways by prostaglandin E2 (PGE2), a powerful stimulator of adenylate cyclase (Zhao et al., 1996). Thus, the inhbition of promoter II-driven aromatase expression by means of anti inflammatory cyclooxygenase inhibitors to reduce PGE2 is attracting attention for the tissue specific treatment of breast cancer (Davies et al., 2012)."
"...Aromatase transcription is primarily controlled by promoter 1.3/II in ovarian granulosa cells. Thus, we examined whether SA-20 and SA-48 exert their inhibitory effects on aromatase transcription through these two promoters. SA-20 and SA-48 at 50uM decreased 20-30% of the promoter I.3 (Fig. 7A). However, at the same concentration (50uM), SA-20 and SA-48 decreased 60%-70% of the promoter II (Fig. 7B). These results indicate that the inhibition of aromatase transcription by SA-20 and SA-48 is mediated through promoter I.3/II, with promoter II playing a more prominent role."

In summary, phytol seems to be a very versatile substance with a wide array of beneficial effects. As one study aptly summarized these effects include:
Phytol in a pharma-medico-stance. - PubMed - NCBI
"...In the pharma-medico viewpoint, PYT and its derivatives have been evident to have antimicrobial, cytotoxic, antitumorous, antimutagenic, anti-teratogenic, antibiotic-chemotherapeutic, antidiabetic, lipid lowering, antispasmodic, anticonvulsant, antinociceptive, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, anxiolytic, antidepressant, immunoadjuvancy, hair growth facilitator, hair fall defense and antidandruff activities. Otherwise, the important biometebolite of PYT is phytanic acid (PA). Evidence shows PA to have cytotoxic, anticancer, antidiabetic, lipid lowering and aniteratogenic activities. In addition, it may be considered as an important biomarker for some diseases such as Refsum's Disease (RD), Sjögren Larsson syndrome (SLS), rhizomelic chondrodysplasia punctata (RZCP), chronic polyneuropathy (CP), Zellweger's disease hyperpipecolic academia (ZDHA) and related diseases. Thus, phytol may be considered as a new drug candidate."

Finally, phytol is one of the few known chemicals that raise NAD levels in vivo and thus improve the oxidative state of the organism.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1271/bbb.130029
"...In conclusion, we found that phytol increased the blood NAD level via ACMSD protein suppression and mRNA expression in rat liver. It is possible that this mechanism resulted from the activation of PPAR as well of other transcription factors. We will carry out additional studies on the regulation of ACMSD gene expression by phytol to elucidate this issue."
 

Michael Mohn

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@ddjd
If you organize phytol I'm in to buy some but I remember weakly a study in some animals or humans and the increase was rather low and I was busy at the time so lost interest.
 

ddjd

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@ddjd
If you organize phytol I'm in to buy some but I remember weakly a study in some animals or humans and the increase was rather low and I was busy at the time so lost interest.
@Peroxphos you still interested?

ive still got half a bottle of the old gonadin so ill keep going with that for time being but definitely interested in buying once thats finished
 

Michael Mohn

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@Peroxphos you still interested?

ive still got half a bottle of the old gonadin so ill keep going with that for time being but definitely interested in buying once thats finished
Just to be clear, I think phytol is an interesting molecule and I would buy it. I tried pretty hard to source it but was unsuccessful.
As a non steroidal agent for increasing androgens it's not interesting enough to invest time into it.
Getting some T would be easier and more effective.
 

ddjd

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Just to be clear, I think phytol is an interesting molecule and I would buy it. I tried pretty hard to source it but was unsuccessful.
As a non steroidal agent for increasing androgens it's not interesting enough to invest time into it.
Getting some T would be easier and more effective.
I got hold of testosterone base a few years ago and still have some but ive come to realise it's much more effective and safe to boost the bodies natural steroid production. especially as i already have very high cholesterol, i know that my problem is im not transporting cholesterol into mitochondria inner membrane where it can be converted to steroids So i need specifically things that boost the StAR enzyme- K2mk4, phytol, geranylgeraniol, apigenin, vitamin A etc. Phytol is one of the most effecitve ive found. its very potent.

if i supplement testosterone my cholesterol just keeps getting higher and higher and it lowers my natural steroid production.
 

Michael Mohn

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I got hold of testosterone base a few years ago and still have some but ive come to realise it's much more effective and safe to boost the bodies natural steroid production. especially as i already have very high cholesterol, i know that my problem is im not transporting cholesterol into mitochondria inner membrane where it can be converted to steroids So i need specifically things that boost the StAR enzyme- K2mk4, phytol, geranylgeraniol, apigenin, vitamin A etc. Phytol is one of the most effecitve ive found. its very potent.

if i supplement testosterone my cholesterol just keeps getting higher and higher and it lowers my natural steroid production.
Good point, every intervention has desirable and undesirable outcomes and I wouldn't recommend taking T lightly. I think I have high iron levels and high inflammation and this lowers my test and thyroid.
 

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