Where Are The Before And Afters In This , Peat World"?

[Dino D]

I only see complex theories here...
It goes super deep...
But does it work in practice?

The results are just more and more endless theories, more complex ,,individual problems" and people getting fatter, staying the same, or whatever... long years of talking and supplementing...

People who have some succes, are having if because of some super individual way that worked for them and not because of anything that could be ,, a peat way" or a general rule (like on keto, dont eat carbs and 95% of people have results (good or bad) but something happends and you have nowdays milions before and after photos from them, and it starts working fast... I asked this before, this forum takes so much of my energy and nothing trully works... and what works is not at all from this forum or peat... like NO COFFEE, taking iron, taking whey, not eating dairy, skiping meals, not to much salt and so on... all of that fixed me somewhat, but i cant say its from a peat diet or even a peat principle... this forum has not one general way at all, i get nothing here, always just 5 ,,oposite" advices... thats like no advice at all... and the peaty ones never work... many claim a lot of things and after a few months they swear different things... and so on... where is your proof that this is trully working?

I know its not everything about weightloss, but getting fater is 100% NOT IT! No before and after here, no proves, just high end bla bla

Sorry 4 the rant, i like many of you... :) its not like youre bad people, its the oposite, super smart and nice people, but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

 

[Dino D]

Just 10 of.10.000.000... and i doubt that those are people whose health declined and that they were helthier before...

 

[Dino D]

!

 

[corvetteseeker]

I know what you're saying and have shared some of the same frustrations.

However, I think the simple explanation of why there is a lack of cohesive protocols is that
people have different genetic machinery and different gut microbiomes.

A large university in Israel did that study where they put close to 100 people on continuous
glucose monitors around the clock for 1 week tracking all their meals.

And they found that everyone had vastly different blood sugar responses from identical foods.
When they did the follow up study they found these difference were explained by different
bacteria strains in the microbiome.

Also consider ethnical differences. 70+% of Asian countries are lacto intolerant while
Scandinavian countries thrive on dairy.

Throw in very different environmental and life adversity from person to person and you
have the recipe for many different protocols needed depending on the person.

What I am finding is that you need to find what foods give you
true, lasting energy but that also allow you to sleep well and not increase weight.

There are answers out there if you are truly interested.

 

[corvetteseeker]

There are Peat principles too:

Saturated fat instead of PUFA
fruits preferred to starch
limit foods in tryptophan and serotonin
consume adequate protein

I'm theorizing that a lot of the confusion (and poor results)
stems from consuming dairy (esp dairy fat or whey) when
the person is not compatible with it.

Or consuming starch when the person doesn't do well with it.

Or too much added sugars instead of relying on fruits/fruit juice.

 

[redsun]

Just 10 of.10.000.000... and i doubt that those are people whose health declined and that were helthier before...

Keto is a literal garbage heap of a diet, thats why its so good at making people drop weight. There are many ways you can lose weight. Keto will make you lose, but so will a calorie reduced high carb diet. Emphasis on high fat and keeping protein low enough to reduce gluceoneogenesis so you dont get bumped out of ketosis. Keto is catabolic and unhealthy period. When we start talking about a diet that has adequate fat but high protein to substitute for glucose then it can be considered good and carnivore dieters end up healthy while I rarely see strict keto followers(80% fat, 20% protein, 0% carbs) that are.

Keto will make you drop weight but weaken your body in the process. Do you know how often ketoclowns will complain about lack of energy/power to workout, loss of strength or doing anything explosive? Or just general feeling like trash. Loss of endurance over time. I used to be one of those guys. Stupidity amplified a thousand times. Keto an extremist diet for people that dont have an iota of self-control, keto destroys appetite so its naturally much easier to follow.

Ray Peat seems to believe you can lose weight without restricting calories at least from what I heard. But 90% of us here do not agree with this, many attempt but end up realizing it just doesnt work. Doesnt mean a carb inclusive diet is bad, or that any of the basic Peat principles are wrong.

 

[Dino D]

There are Peat principles too:

Saturated fat instead of PUFA
fruits preferred to starch
limit foods in tryptophan and serotonin
consume adequate protein

I'm theorizing that a lot of the confusion (and poor results)
stems from consuming dairy (esp dairy fat or whey) when
the person is not compatible with it.

Or consuming starch when the person doesn't do well with it.

Or too much added sugars instead of relying on fruits/fruit juice.

Yea, BUT! as i see it the general rule would be if you eat 100 gram of sat. fat and 400 gram (or more) of juice carbs (many times a day)... you will get fat... adding proteins does not change that, or salt or taurine, b vitamins, or whatever...

So the old general rules, counting calories, and not stimulating insulin 100 times a day, or siping carbs like a ,,hero" didnt change with peating...

Still i get you, nice response

 

[Cirion]

Understand the frustration totally, but remember that the Peat world is generally focused on metabolism restoration and not weight but I do agree that getting fatter should also not be the goal.

Restoring the metabolism is a lot harder than just losing weight. Losing weight without restoring metabolism is easy - just cut calories and exercise. Restoring metabolism is hard, and probably why you don't see a ton of success stories. It takes a lot of intimate knowledge on what foods work and don't work for you, which raise your temps, which don't, which bloat you, which don't etc etc...

I do think there is a blueprint though that is applicable to ALL. Goal should be 98.6F waking temp & 85 bpm pulse every morning. Now, how one achieves this, may and probably does differ for each individual. IMO, if you take nothing else from these forums, it should be this - because those are two markers of how your metabolism is functioning. Take this basic premise, and then individualize your diet based upon peat principles that best reaches these #'s. This is my current strategy and I feel I'm getting closer to meeting my goals finally.

I absolutely think PUFA, intermittent fasting, excess starch, dairy, fish oil is bad for most (all?) people but heck--if eating these gets you 98.6F temps, 85 bpm pulses, and you lose weight and feel better. Who am I to stop you. That's why I think above ALL else, those two #'s are the most important. You MUST be your own coach. It wasn't until I started "being my own coach" that I think things are finally moving in the right direction.

 

[corvetteseeker]

Yea, BUT! as i see it the general rule would be if you eat 100 gram of sat. fat and 400 gram (or more) of juice carbs (many times a day)... you will get fat...

@CLASH and others may be onto something finding that saturated fat from beef, coconut oil and cacao butter do not produce weight gain like dairy. I was gaining weight steadily until I cut back on dairy fat. I have been eating the alternative fats liberally and have started losing weight. I'm also consuming a ton of carbs as well and am sedentary. I don't want to say anymore until I've done this longer but take it for what it's worth.

 

[Cirion]

@CLASH and others may be onto something finding that saturated fat from beef, coconut oil and cacao butter do not produce weight gain like dairy. I was gaining weight steadily until I cut back on dairy fat. I have been eating the alternative fats liberally and have started losing weight. I'm also consuming a ton of carbs as well and am sedentary. I don't want to say anymore until I've done this longer but take it for what it's worth.

How are your temps and pulses? Losing weight is nice, but I can't say I'll be convinced of this eating strategy unless someone can produce consistent 98.6F waking temps and 85 bpm pulses most mornings on it. Neither CLASH nor anyone else has provided me temps and pulses to convince me this actually works. I agree about dairy though.

 

[Dino D]

Keto is a literal garbage heap of a diet, thats why its so good at making people drop weight. There are many ways you can lose weight. Keto will make you lose, but so will a calorie reduced high carb diet. Emphasis on high fat and keeping protein low enough to reduce gluceoneogenesis so you dont get bumped out of ketosis. Keto is catabolic and unhealthy period. When we start talking about a diet that has adequate fat but high protein to substitute for glucose then it can be considered good and carnivore dieters end up healthy while I rarely see strict keto followers(80% fat, 20% protein, 0% carbs) that are.

Keto will make you drop weight but weaken your body in the process. Do you know how often ketoclowns will complain about lack of energy/power to workout, loss of strength or doing anything explosive? Or just general feeling like trash. Loss of endurance over time. I used to be one of those guys. Stupidity amplified a thousand times. Keto an extremist diet for people that dont have an iota of self-control, keto destroys appetite so its naturally much easier to follow.

Ray Peat seems to believe you can lose weight without restricting calories at least from what I heard. But 90% of us here do not agree with this, many attempt but end up realizing it just doesnt work. Doesnt mean a carb inclusive diet is bad, or that any of the basic Peat principles are wrong.

just to be clear, IM NOT ADVOCATING KETO... keto was bad for me, with just some good sides... it was just to make a point

the general rules that i know (clasical bodybuilding stuff) are like this
70 gram of fat
150 gram of lean protein or more (eggs, meat, chease, maybe some protein shakes)
veggies,
100-400 gram of carbs (deppendig on a cut, maintance, or gaining phase)
count calories
see your activity level
dont spend life siting in front of a PC
dont spike insulin to ofeten
sometimes you can fast or skip meals (not 4 ever)
veggies are FINE !!!
whole natural foods are almost always better... (if youre not super intolerant to something)
two big meals are ok, but you can also do 6 small ones, but not 6 big ones, and sit around...
fried OILY shix fatty food arent good...
for all af this i have practical evidence in my life... i just wrote the first things from my head that were always truth... you can see this in every post and every book from bodybuilders or basic nutritional advices that were even on the internet until 10 years ago when things got super sofiticated guru level PHD, atomic stuff... what ever

peat didnt change anything of that... you cant eat as much as you crave and what you crave and sit without hard training adn feel great... dairy and OJ arent superior... there is nothing that works here for me... suplements dont work, nothing so special...

all those thing, those super deep truths, like difference between meat fat and diary fat, egg yolks and coconout oil, or sorts of rice, or swet OJ or super sweet OJ are like 1-5% important, and this forum makes super science from this... ok let me see it working

 

[Motif]

I only see complex theories here...
It goes super deep...
But does it work in practice?

The results are just more and more endless theories, more complex ,,individual problems" and people getting fatter, staying the same, or whatever... long years of talking and supplementing...

People who have some succes, are having if because of some super individual way that worked for them and not because of anything that could be ,, a peat way" or a general rule (like on keto, dont eat carbs and 95% of people have results (good or bad) but something happends and you have nowdays milions before and after photos from them, and it starts working fast... I asked this before, this forum takes so much of my energy and nothing trully works... and what works is not at all from this forum or peat... like NO COFFEE, taking iron, taking whey, not eating dairy, skiping meals, not to much salt and so on... all of that fixed me somewhat, but i cant say its from a peat diet or even a peat principle... this forum has not one general way at all, i get nothing here, always just 5 ,,oposite" advices... thats like no advice at all... and the peaty ones never work... many claim a lot of things and after a few months they swear different things... and so on... where is your proof that this is trully working?

I know its not everything about weightloss, but getting fater is 100% NOT IT! No before and after here, no proves, just high end bla bla

Sorry 4 the rant, i like many of you... :) its not like youre bad people, its the oposite, super smart and nice people, but i think the forum is to much bla bla and its not that helpful in practice/in real life, but nice theories

Is the protein not helping you anymore ?

 

[TripleOG]

Is this another one of those "my implementation of Peat-inspired eating didn't work, therefore he must be wrong" threads?

 

[Cirion]

People are getting too deep in the forest/weeds.

All that matters is metabolism. Nothing else does in the grand scheme of things. 85 bpm pulse and 98.6F temp that's it. If you can consistently get that, you're winning. You will have to play with the minutae to some degree to achieve this, true, but you know you're either doing something right or wrong quite quickly via these measurements.

Fasting or no fasting? Try both and check temps and pulses. End of the discussion.
Dairy or no dairy? Try both and checks temps and pulses. End of discussion.

See where I'm going with this? There is no longer confusion via this strategy. Or at least, not as much. I haven't yet perfected my own diet just yet, but this is helping me systematically discover what helps and what doesn't.

I have found too that foods that are bloating are usually not helpful. I weigh myself multiple times a day and if my weight suddenly shoots up, I know I ate something not good for me. For example starch reliably bloats me.

 

[Dino D]

Understand the frustration totally, but remember that the Peat world is generally focused on metabolism restoration and not weight but I do agree that getting fatter should also not be the goal.

Restoring the metabolism is a lot harder than just losing weight. Losing weight without restoring metabolism is easy - just cut calories and exercise. Restoring metabolism is hard, and probably why you don't see a ton of success stories. It takes a lot of intimate knowledge on what foods work and don't work for you, which raise your temps, which don't, which bloat you, which don't etc etc...

I do think there is a blueprint though that is applicable to ALL. Goal should be 98.6F waking temp & 85 bpm pulse every morning. Now, how one achieves this, may and probably does differ for each individual. IMO, if you take nothing else from these forums, it should be this - because those are two markers of how your metabolism is functioning. Take this basic premise, and then individualize your diet based upon peat principles that best reaches these #'s. This is my current strategy and I feel I'm getting closer to meeting my goals finally.

I absolutely think PUFA, intermittent fasting, excess starch, dairy, fish oil is bad for most (all?) people but heck--if eating these gets you 98.6F temps, 85 bpm pulses, and you lose weight and feel better. Who am I to stop you. That's why I think above ALL else, those two #'s are the most important. You MUST be your own coach. It wasn't until I started "being my own coach" that I think things are finally moving in the right direction.

i know the secret, is not a secret at all, eat whole foods but dont stuff your self like crazy, train hard, rest, sleep repeat... go outside, don't stress, maybe some supps, after 3-6 months you feel good... everybody feels good if he eats and trains (not overtraining) and if he is not stressed from personal life, go into nature every day, move and work in nature every day for 8 hours and eat clean... thats it... and if you dont get super healthy thats ok, not everybody is ment to be a ,,ferrari human"...

10 years ago no one ever spoke about gut, microbiome, fiber, starch or whatever, now its all nuclear science... there is even no need to know any of that... live in nature, work, train, eat clean whole foods... a bit of minfulness what you need (food, rest, sleep, party whatever) and thats it...

 

[Dino D]

Is this another one of those "my implementation of Peat-inspired eating didn't work, therefore he must be wrong" threads?

NOOO, i just want before and afters of those whose implementations worked?????

 

[Dino D]

Is the protein not helping you anymore ?

Its helping... i canged my whey product and this one is not helping at all, thats interesting... so the amino composition of the whey could be important... however, eating more proteins is one of the best things that i impemented back... its not trully peaty or something special that you have to find out,,, i focused on proteins from the age of 15 to 23 (its basic nutritional knowledge, proteins are good, weight in KGx 2gram i saw it looong time ago on trully low end articles, people in far counties and in small vilages know that)

 

[Dino D]

People are getting too deep in the forest/weeds.

All that matters is metabolism. Nothing else does in the grand scheme of things. 85 bpm pulse and 98.6F temp that's it. If you can consistently get that, you're winning. You will have to play with the minutae to some degree to achieve this, true, but you know you're either doing something right or wrong quite quickly via these measurements.

Fasting or no fasting? Try both and check temps and pulses. End of the discussion.
Dairy or no dairy? Try both and checks temps and pulses. End of discussion.

See where I'm going with this? There is no longer confusion via this strategy. Or at least, not as much. I haven't yet perfected my own diet just yet, but this is helping me systematically discover what helps and what doesn't.

I have found too that foods that are bloating are usually not helpful. I weigh myself multiple times a day and if my weight suddenly shoots up, I know I ate something not good for me. For example starch reliably bloats me.

nice theory... makes seanse... does it work... you got fat, stayed the same, maybe you even live on this forum (this is bad)... if you trully feel better this is also something and I'm happy 4 you (its not all about weight loss) but we still dont know whats happenig with you and where all of this (your story) will go... so your nice talk, isnt a proved method, or a prove 4 its self...
i like you, so dont take this in a bad way...

 

[lampofred]

I think a lot of people who are skinny or energetic are that way because they are running on fats/cancer metabolism. Restoring healthy metabolism first requires turning off that fat oxidation, which will cause a bit of weight gain at first.

I have gained weight on Peat, but my hair loss has stopped, I'm told I'm more attractive than I used to be, and very importantly my personality keeps developing in a very good way. My symptoms of Asperger's were much worse before starting this. I don't know if diets like Keto would offer benefits like that, which makes sense because this diet, unlike others, focuses on optimizing CO2, which is a very "long-term" hormone.

 

[Tarmander]

If you throw out the OJ and Milk diet garbage, and the lots and lots of sugar garbage, and just LEAN a little in Peat's direction, you'll do alright. The problem was with the set up. Cells don't age unless these factors...get rid of the factors...no aging! Didn't really work like that.

Peat shrines in outlining things that are stressful and to avoid. He doesn't do so great in his proactive suggestions which is actually the case for most naturopathic suggestions. It is far more powerful to remove something bad then add something good.