"When A Turk's Bowels Move Less Than Three Times A Day, He Consults A Physician."

[Amazoniac]

Cellulose is found in larger or smaller quantities in practically all vegetable foods. In some instances it is found in larger quantities than in others. The cellulose content of our foods varies greatly. In fruits and fresh vegetables cellulose is found in a newly formed state in which it is very easily broken up, and it is on this account less valuable as bulk-producing material. It is easily acted upon by bacteria and broken up into gases resembling illuminating gas. The bran of cereals represents an older form of cellulose in which it has been transformed into wood and which is resistant to bacteria.

For normal persons living on a biologic diet, bran would not be necessary, but persons who have been for years constipated have crippled colons, the colon is dilated and elongated, its muscular walls are weakened by long continued owa-distention, and the mechanical stimulus furnished by a very bulky dietary addition is essential.

The bran stimulates the bowel not by irritation, but by a sort of titillation, hastening peristalsis in both the small intestine and the colon, and by hurrying on the unused residues of each meal, leaving no opportunity for the development of putrefactive changes. Bran also excites the intestine to action by distending it, and by the same means stimulates the activity of the glands which furnish the digestive fluids.

Starches and indigestible fibers have been tested on various animals, from horses to rats and practically all of the fibers that are used as food additives carrageenan and guar gum, various other gums, oat bran and even some of the semi-synthetic things, Metamucil, agar and psyllium, all have been identified as carcinogens for the intestine and possibly other organs and getting those out quickly before they support bacterial growth.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yep. Kellogg you were wrong. I was crippled with constipation for years and need no bran to move my intestines. The distention caused by the bulk is what harms it. C is probably the safest way to move the bowels if they are sluggish. No excitation or distention necessary. Melons, grapes, mangoes, pineapples also are good to get things going (but not too much lest you be cramped over in pain). Also movement. And sun.

 

[Wagner83]

It is easily acted upon by bacteria and broken up into gases resembling illuminating gas.

Does it have anything to do with becoming an illuminati?

For normal persons living on a biologic diet, bran would not be necessary, but persons who have been for years constipated have crippled colons, the colon is dilated and elongated, its muscular walls are weakened by long continued owa-distention, and the mechanical stimulus furnished by a very bulky dietary addition is essential.

What is a biologic diet, what is not? So the colon is dilated, elongated, weakened, and that's when you really need to finish it off by giving it more bulk, more volume and dilate it further. I'm pretty sure I read about this somewhere, in a motorway rest and service area.

 

[Mossy]

C is probably the safest way to move the bowels if they are sluggish.

Hi Janelle525, this must mean you have nothing but success with C. I'm not anti-C at all, but whenever I take it, it does the exact opposite for me--really stops the flow of things. I've heard that you can increase it until it causes diarrhea, but I've also heard that that is not healthy.

Do you mind sharing your dose of C or how you use it to get things flowing?

 

[Amazoniac]

Yep. Kellogg you were wrong. I was crippled with constipation for years and need no bran to move my intestines. The distention caused by the bulk is what harms it. C is probably the safest way to move the bowels if they are sluggish. No excitation or distention necessary. Melons, grapes, mangoes, pineapples also are good to get things going (but not too much lest you be cramped over in pain). Also movement. And sun.

He won't be reading. I can be wrong on distention, but I don't think so. The constipated and inflammed intestine needs assistance is clearing its content out, it has a tendency to harden with narrowing of its lumen, this encourages accumulated material to fill in those cavities of each impacted segment. Regarding vit of the C, you know my opinion on it, you can never expect a nutrient to have a laxative action on its optimal intake. The guy recommends enemas as something safe.

Does it have anything to do with becoming an illuminati?

What is a biologic diet, what is not? So the colon is dilated, elongated, weakened, and that's when you really need to finish it off by giving it more bulk, more volume and dilate it further. I'm pretty sure I read about this somewhere, in a motorway rest and service area.

Isn't that what the therapeutic diet of milch and fruits with carrots does in this regard? Feeds bacteria in moderation and provides some roughage to scrape and carry stuff out.

 

[tara]

A mail from Ray about fibers, it has references:
Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

I didn't mean that he recommends all fibres in all quantities, but that he has frequently recommended some fibre of some kinds.
Both the quote and the references are discrimintaing about types.

Your style is so particular that I could probably tell it was you who posted just by the text alone.

Lol. :)

 

[InChristAlone]

He won't be reading. I can be wrong on distention, but I don't think so. The constipated and inflammed intestine needs assistance is clearing its content out, it has a tendency to harden with narrowing of its lumen, this encourages accumulated material to fill in those cavities of each impacted segment. Regarding vit of the C, you know my opinion on it, you can never expect a nutrient to have a laxative action on its optimal intake. The guy recommends enemas as something safe.

Isn't that what the therapeutic diet of milch and fruits with carrots does in this regard? Feeds bacteria in moderation and provides some roughage to scrape and carry stuff out.

Again, I don't like the idea you want a fiber dependence. Check out this website for the opposite opinion. Overcoming fiber dependence
I can achieve a normal type 4 or 5 stool with about 10-15 g fiber a day. Just the other day I passed light fluffier stools 3 times. You can barely sense them in the colon. HUGE, and I mean HUGE buffalo HUGE difference as compared to most of my life of cramps, fully formed loads of stool, irregularity. I do not want fiber dependence.

 

[InChristAlone]

Hi Janelle525, this must mean you have nothing but success with C. I'm not anti-C at all, but whenever I take it, it does the exact opposite for me--really stops the flow of things. I've heard that you can increase it until it causes diarrhea, but I've also heard that that is not healthy.

Do you mind sharing your dose of C or how you use it to get things flowing?

I take about 4 grams all at once in the morning. It doesn't cause me diarrhea but that's my bowel tolerance. You have to find that dose for you. If my stool is drying out I just use a little more and it rights things pretty quickly.

 

[Jennifer]

How about this: both of you prepare a card with an updated picture (no intervention allowed, risking disqualification), stamina, charisma, and a brief résumé, so that I can put you side-by-side and make a certain decision. Knowing how to cook and enjoying it is a plus.

Spoiler: Important test for compatibility

Anything wrong (image on the right)?
View attachment 8905
[ ] Yes. _____ (up to 7)
[ ] No, everything is just right.

How about this: you look for me in your dreams at night...because that's the only way you're ever going to see me.

But just so there are no hard feelings, I'll whip you up something special – bran muffins made with extra bran, castor oil and some cascara thrown in for good measure. And because it's so important to you, I'll mix the batter with every ounce of stamina and charisma I have and I can promise you I'll be enjoying every minute of it. Just the thought of you eating my explosive, err, I mean, titillating muffins, brings me so much joy.

Joking aside...

"The bran stimulates the bowel not by irritation, but by a sort of titillation, hastening peristalsis in both the small intestine and the colon, and by hurrying on the unused residues of each meal, leaving no opportunity for the development of putrefactive changes. Bran also excites the intestine to action by distending it, and by the same means stimulates the activity of the glands which furnish the digestive fluids."

Titillation? Gives a whole new meaning to Wheaties' slogan "Breakfast of Champions". I'm happy that at least the glands were mentioned.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah titillation is right! IBS central!

 

[InChristAlone]

Vitamin C is not a laxative. It helps provide moisture to stool. A symptom of vitamin C deficiency is constipation.

"Hydro-C is quickly and fully absorbed in the upper small intestine, and never reaches either the lower small intestine or the large intestine. Its action is based entirely on this property — a complete and full absorption in the upper small intestine, and the ensuing safe and gentle release of physiological fluids directly into the large intestine to safely moisturize and breakdown hard stools."
Ageless Nutrition: Hydro-C

 

[Mossy]

I take about 4 grams all at once in the morning. It doesn't cause me diarrhea but that's my bowel tolerance. You have to find that dose for you. If my stool is drying out I just use a little more and it rights things pretty quickly.

Ah, ok, so maybe the answer is the larger dose. I was taking small doses (100mg) and without question they were completely stopping me up--for days. That is what made me apprehensive about increasing the dose, thinking it would magnify that stoppage/dryness.

Thanks for sharing, and the additional insight.

 

[InChristAlone]

Ah, ok, so maybe the answer is the larger dose. I was taking small doses (100mg) and without question they were completely stopping me up--for days. That is what made me apprehensive about increasing the dose, thinking it would magnify that stoppage/dryness.

Thanks for sharing, and the additional insight.

That is a really interesting side effect to small doses! Never heard of that before.

 

[Mossy]

That is a really interesting side effect to small doses! Never heard of that before.

For sure! Especially for someone who was raised on vitamin C supplementation. Me and my siblings would literally line-up in the morning, to get our vitamin c crystals before school. I then continued usage as an adult, and then stopped for several years, at the recommendation of a TCM doctor. But, I can say, without fail, taking vitamin C in these current doses stops me up for days. That makes no sense to me. That same TCM doctor sold me is own version of C that contains magnesium, calcium, and palmitate; so, kind of similar to the Hydro-C you linked. But, I may just start with straight C crystal, sodium ascorbate.

 

[Jennifer]

"Hydro-C is quickly and fully absorbed in the upper small intestine, and never reaches either the lower small intestine or the large intestine. Its action is based entirely on this property — a complete and full absorption in the upper small intestine, and the ensuing safe and gentle release of physiological fluids directly into the large intestine to safely moisturize and breakdown hard stools."
Ageless Nutrition: Hydro-C

I spent a lot of time looking at Konstantin's site when I was Peating with dairy, but never bothered checking out his supplements. Does he go into more detail about the actual mechanisms at play with "the ensuing safe and gentle release of physiological fluids directly into the large intestine" from the Hydro-C?

 

[InChristAlone]

I spent a lot of time looking at Konstantin's site when I was Peating with dairy, but never bothered checking out his supplements. Does he go into more detail about the actual mechanisms at play with "the ensuing safe and gentle release of physiological fluids directly into the large intestine" from the Hydro-C?

It's basically a vitamin C flush. Although seems to be a bit more gentle on the body than how I do it with plain old ascorbic acid in a large dose. "When the level of ascorbates that normally circulate in the blood exceeds a certain threshold, the excess is released by osmosis into the large intestine, along with water. "

 

[Amazoniac]

Again, I don't like the idea you want a fiber dependence. Check out this website for the opposite opinion. Overcoming fiber dependence
I can achieve a normal type 4 or 5 stool with about 10-15 g fiber a day. Just the other day I passed light fluffier stools 3 times. You can barely sense them in the colon. HUGE, and I mean HUGE buffalo HUGE difference as compared to most of my life of cramps, fully formed loads of stool, irregularity. I do not want fiber dependence.

“Cleansing” with insoluble fiber, such as bran, is even more dangerous, because undigested fiber keeps piling up on top of already impacted, hardened stools. This may lead to obstruction, fecal impaction, and other complications, such as diverticular disease, megacolon, prolapsed hemorrhoids, or colon perforation — which is a mostly lethal condition.

I believe there is some truth to it, and this must be why some people experience problems with carrots. It isn't good to eat them during constipation because they can make it worse. They have much more roughage and antibiotics than fermentable carbs. That's why he isn't suggesting twigs alone.

I wonder if Kellogg was constipated when writing this book. Bad grammar is not annoying, but when the message starts to become confusing, I think it shows a bad state rather than ignorance because most people know the basics for the clears of the communications. At least this is what I have to believe until I figure out the difference between 'to' and 'for', or 'in' and 'on'.

The natural “cleansing” kits that provide a double- or triple punch—a combination of stimulant laxatives, such as senna; soluble fiber, such as psyllium husk; and insoluble fiber, such as bran—are the most dangerous. They may do the “trick” for someone with relatively intact and unobstructed colorectal organs, but someone with a longer history of constipation may end up in the ER either because of intense cramping caused by senna, or an allergic reaction to psyllium, or severe diarrhea from both, or impenetrable obstruction or colon perforation caused by bran, or combinations of all of the above.

The main concerning part here could be bran harm, but there are roughages of all fineness.

- Chronic functional constipation: which supplementary fiber to choose?

"Wheat bran, having highly lignified cell walls, ferments less than cabbage or apples, and is considered slowly fermentable, while fine bran is more digestible than coarse bran because of the greater exposed area."

The finer it gets, the more prone it is to be fermented. This happens when carrots are juiced, they increase prebiotic function in relation to the antibiotic.

--

How about this: you look for me in your dreams at night...because that's the only way you're ever going to see me.

But just so there are no hard feelings, I'll whip you up something special – bran muffins made with extra bran, castor oil and some cascara thrown in for good measure. And because it's so important to you, I'll mix the batter with every ounce of stamina and charisma I have and I can promise you I'll be enjoying every minute of it. Just the thought of you eating my explosive, err, I mean, titillating muffins, brings me so much joy.

Joking aside...

"The bran stimulates the bowel not by irritation, but by a sort of titillation, hastening peristalsis in both the small intestine and the colon, and by hurrying on the unused residues of each meal, leaving no opportunity for the development of putrefactive changes. Bran also excites the intestine to action by distending it, and by the same means stimulates the activity of the glands which furnish the digestive fluids."

Titillation? Gives a whole new meaning to Wheaties' slogan "Breakfast of Champions". I'm happy that at least the glands were mentioned.

((( Doesn't sound too good. But are you sure about the dream part? I'm friends with Diokine, this means that on the worst cases you'll still be part of the alpha group. Consider myself then a stairway to heaven.

He could've used 'tickling' instead. [: idi] It's indeed a kind of irritation, but this can happen with all plant matter, especially raw (carrots again are an example). A diet that is too soft requires vigorous activity to be able to prevent excessive (re)absorption of unwanted stuff.

http://l-i-g-h-t.com/transcript-358
"some people get terribly constipated when they eat raw vegetables. Other people, it's enough irritation to stimulate the intestine. Doctors for a long time have warned against using stimulant laxatives, but when they recommend eating vegetables, it's really primarily a stimulant action produced by irritating substances, either in the vegetable itself or produced by the bacterial growth. If you've ever left a head of lettuce in a closed container at room temperature, you'll know how quickly lettuce can decompose. Compared to a carrot, lettuce is very good bacterial food and so it can become very toxic, if you happen to catch the wrong bacteria."

--

That is a really interesting side effect to small doses! Never heard of that before.

This is from our discussion on the vit C thread. If the doses are not on the definite excess range, they can have an interacting effect that can be for the worse if unbalanced or un and needed.

If you give supplemental vit C to a congested person, a little excess worsens the person's congestion. If supplemental vit C always comes without negatives, how would you explain this characteristic worsening of stasis? Things should move on the right direction right away, no?

after a certain point it should stop affecting trace minerals in a negative way.

--
tara, if you're reading this, it's easy to spot my posts: 30 thats for each paragraph.

 

[Wagner83]

An other quote from Ray on fibers, I haven't seen what he says about potatoes mentioned on the forums:
Endotoxin: Poisoning from the Inside Out – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
“Oatmeal and potatoes do provide fiber, but they are good food for bacteria, and bacterial endotoxin is usually the basic problem causing hormone imbalance, by being a chronic burden for the liver, keeping it from storing enough sugar to process thyroid and the other hormones effectively.”

Protective Bamboo Shoots – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Food Safety Volume 10, Issue 3, pages 153–168, May 2011
Nutritional Properties of Bamboo Shoots: Potential and Prospects for Utilization as a Health Food
Nirmala Chongtham, Madho Singh Bisht, Sheena Haorongbam
Bamboo is intricately associated with humans from times immemorial. Popularly known for their industrial uses, a lesser known fact of bamboos is the usage of its young shoots as a food that can be consumed fresh, fermented, or canned. The juvenile shoots are not only delicious but are rich in nutrient components, mainly proteins, carbohydrates, minerals, and fiber and are low in fat and sugars. In addition, they contain phytosterols and a high amount of fiber that can be labeled as nutraceuticals or natural medicines that are attracting the attention of health advocates and scientists alike. The shoots are free from residual toxicity and grow without the application of fertilizers. Modern research has revealed that bamboo shoots have a number of health benefits: improving appetite and digestion, weight loss, and curing cardiovascular diseases and cancer. The shoots are reported to have anticancer, antibacterial, and antiviral activity. Shoots have antioxidant capacity due to the presence of phenolic compounds. The increasing trends of health consciousness among consumers have stimulated the field of functional foods and bamboo shoots can be one of them. Bamboo fiber is now a common ingredient in breakfast cereals, fruit juices, bakery and meat products, sauces, shredded cheeses, cookies, pastas, snacks, frozen desserts, and many other food products. This review emphasizes the health benefits of bamboo shoots and their potential for utilization as a health food.

Nutrition. 2009 Jul-Aug;25(7-8):723-8. Epub 2009 Mar 13.
Effects of bamboo shoot consumption on lipid profiles and bowel function in healthy young women.
Park EJ, Jhon DY.
OBJECTIVE:
This study evaluated the short-term effect of bamboo shoot consumption as a dietary fiber source on blood glucose, lipid profiles, hepatic function, and constipation symptoms in healthy women.
METHODS:
Eight subjects, 21- to 23-y-old women, with normal health status received a dietary fiber-free diet (control), a diet containing 25 g of cellulose, and a diet containing 360 g of bamboo shoots, with each diet segment lasting 6 d. At the end of each diet, blood biochemical parameters, such as glucose, triacylglycerols, total cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, glutamic pyruvic transaminase, glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase, and atherogenic index were measured and a questionnaire test for the evaluation of fecal excretion was taken. For statistical analysis, analysis of variance was performed.
RESULTS:
Serum total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and the atherogenic index were decreased with the bamboo shoot diet feeding compared with the dietary fiber-free diet. There were no differences in serum glucose levels among the tested diets. Fecal volume and bowel movement frequency in subjects fed the bamboo shoot diet were significantly increased.
CONCLUSION:
Bamboo shoots as a dietary fiber source has beneficial effects on lipid profile and bowel function.

 

[Jennifer]

It's basically a vitamin C flush. Although seems to be a bit more gentle on the body than how I do it with plain old ascorbic acid in a large dose. "When the level of ascorbates that normally circulate in the blood exceeds a certain threshold, the excess is released by osmosis into the large intestine, along with water. "

Thanks for explaining, Janelle. Did you have any stomach upset when using the ascorbic acid?

Doesn't sound too good. But are you sure about the dream part? I'm friends with Diokine, this means that on the worst cases you'll still be part of the alpha group. Consider myself then a stairway to heaven.

Now see, there you go selling yourself short again. First you're a job with a vacancy, and now you're a stairway to heaven because you have connections. Why be a girl's stairway to heaven when you can be her heaven?

He could've used 'tickling' instead. [: idi] It's indeed a kind of irritation, but this can happen with all plant matter, especially raw (carrots again are an example). A diet that is too soft requires vigorous activity to be able to prevent excessive (re)absorption of unwanted stuff.

Oh, gee! How funny! That's exactly what I had put after Titillation? in my last comment before deciding to omit it. I agree that irritation can happen with all plant matter, especially raw, as well as any substance. Ray has mentioned how even liquid can irritate.

Raw veggies treat me just as poorly as whole grains. Two years into eating a fruit-based diet the first time around led to major digestive problems because I forced 2lbs of leafy greens daily, but now that I have a different opinion about nutrients and stick with just fruit, what I actually prefer, it's been a whole other ballgame. I do believe our preferences mean something and if I ate veggies, I prefer they be well cooked. To me they become more like a fruit – softer and sweeter.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks for explaining, Janelle. Did you have any stomach upset when using the ascorbic acid?

No, not even cramping with super flush.