Wheat Bran Reduces Estrogen

[Such_Saturation]

Perhaps some kind of washing could improve it? I see psyllium fiber thrown around a lot as well.

 

[lindsay]

I've been eating shredded wheat for the past 3 mornings and decided that it had the effect I suspected. Day one, it helped to produce a decent bowel movement later in the day. The next two days, however, it slowed digestion to the point where I don't want to eat it anymore. I think occasionally it can be beneficial, but I'm going back to my starch free diet for a bit. At least until my sourdough starter is ready.....

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well, it does seem like a small dose kind of thing, it has no way out but out.

 

[pboy]

that's how serotonin based GI provocation works. Something offends the lining so its rushed out and serotonin stimulates it. But such substances bind up mucus, which is the lube of the intestines. So the initial clear out might still be lubricated, but then after that if you don't rebuild it before eating a high astringent or fiberous food, it causes slowed down non able to move appropriately intestines, because these kinds of fibers have a suction like action, and have to be literally lubed out of the GI with mucus. The best way to rebuild it is carbohydrate with some protein, that wont itself have any rough or drying properties. Mucus is mostly carbohydrate

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well said!

 

[lindsay]

Well, my normal diet is very Peat these days - I seem to have gravitated towards fruit and dairy (and lately, shellfish). This morning was FAGE 2% with honey (great protein & carb source) and grapes. And of course, my two cups of coffee with milk and sugar. I will figure out this digestive thing eventually, I just have more difficulty without the gallbladder. That 2 weeks taking antibiotics was pretty much the best time ever digestion wise - everything digested super fast (including starches) and my estrogen levels seemed super low. Too bad it was short lived.....

 

[pboy]

hmm...digestive wise that seems gentle. Ive had grapes give me pretty strong GI upset before, not all the time...but enough to notice. I think the more acid fruits, which is a lot of them, mostly with the peels, can be a little intense. Its not an all the time thing for me, but when I was really depleted a few years, maybe a year ago...I had to stop eating acid fruits, or only a small serving every few days. I don't want to be one who says to limit your diet options but I guess...just keep an eye on it with acid fruits. With starches I think you could try root vegetables rather than grains (if you are eating grains)...cause they tend to have more b vitamins, and potassium to process the sugar with, and even choline and betaine, a little vit C, which helps the liver. Or at least if you are going to have bread, or rice, its best combined maybe half and half with either milk, a root vegetable, or even leafy veg (probably not ideal on GI)...but its mostly because these other foods have the nutrition that the grains lack and can help process them better if eaten at the same time

having said all that...your own intuition is better than what I could say. It took me almost 2 years or more to mostly, master my GI...and im still learning with a few things! Given your knowledge, and how much attention you've paid and various foods you've eaten...it cant be that much longer before you find something comfortable and consistent. I wish I could help more but I don't know what else to say!

as for the wheat bran, you could maybe use it once every other day if you needed to stay really regular, but its probably a bit too strong to eat everyday...though there are a lot of kids im sure and people around the world that eat whole wheat every day. Ive experimented with whole wheat, cereal even, as I was healing and it did similar to what you and ive heard others describe...basically rushed out like 10 hours later...so if I ate in the morning, it would be out in evening...but after the first time it was not pleasant. I also noticed when id eat fat with the meal the fat wouldn't
get absorbed because the fiber had bound it...I know because I used red palm oil and...well, you can assume. With white rice the fat would be absorbed. I did some more research on wheat bran and it depletes calcium status over time...cause the fiber binds it in the intestines. But I really mostly stopped eating it just because of the GI intensity. Perhaps think of it as a every now and then or when needed bulk laxative, but it can be like sand paper on the GI if you eat it too much

 

[LucyL]

BingDing, here are the relevant quotes:

"It can be laid down that the quantity of meat can be reduced during the close season and increased during the working season to almost an all-meat diet with satisfactory results. Oatmeal and unbolted wheat flour are the most desirable of grains. Wheat Hour, rye or barley shorts should be baked as bread pones and allowed to cool and afterward broken up and softened with meal liquor, soup or milk. Cornmeal is a popular food with trainers, probably on account of its price, ease of obtaining and preparing, but it is a fat producer and not a muscle builder. No horse trainer would feed it to a thoroughbred when conditioning him for a race, and while trainers may feel satisfied with the way their dogs thrive, I am sure they would be capable of greater muscular effort if led on one of the other grains.

- from Everything About The Dogs by Alvin George Eberhart (published 1917)
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/dogs/Everything-About-Dogs/index.html#.VFoxxWOGcfg

Of the farinaceous substances or bread-stuffs, called, also, starchy foods, for the reason that starch is the chief constituent of them all, those commonly fed to dogs are wheat, oats, maize or Indian corn, and rice
Of these substances wheat is of the highest value, containing as it does the most flesh-forming and energy-producing materials, and although it deserves consideration merely as an accessory food it has been shown by experiment that dogs can subsist upon it alone for a long time and retain health and vigor, provided they are allowed all parts of the grain. But they could not do this on wheat as generally set before them - that is, as white bread, which for them is far from being a "staff of life." In fact it is practically valueless except as a vehicle for, or to give substance to, other and rich foods which might prove burdensome to the digestive organs were they served in concentrated forms.
As for "brown bread" proper, called Graham bread by many, it is decidedly richer in nutritive matters than the white bread, for it contains all parts of the wheat grain. Owing also to the presence of the particles of bran which are indigestible and by their roughness stimulate the muscular coat of the alimentary canal, and so aid in keeping the bowels free - this bread is of special value in feeding dogs that are allowed but little exercise. And it may be given with meat alone, in about the proportion of three parts bread to one of meat, or mixed with other starchy foods - as for instance, one-half "brown bread," one-fourth rice, one-fourth meat, and perhaps one or two eggs, the bread being softened always with a little broth, and the meat chopped fine and well mixed with it and the other foods.

from Kennel Secrets : How to Breed, Exhibit and Manage Dogs by "Ashmont" published in 1904.
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/dogs/Ke ... FoyQWOGcfg

I love these old dog/cat husbandry books (there are quite a few available on chestofbooks.com), they are such a great antidote to all the modern worries we've created about pet ownership.

 

[c093]

that's how serotonin based GI provocation works. Something offends the lining so its rushed out and serotonin stimulates it. But such substances bind up mucus, which is the lube of the intestines. So the initial clear out might still be lubricated, but then after that if you don't rebuild it before eating a high astringent or fiberous food, it causes slowed down non able to move appropriately intestines, because these kinds of fibers have a suction like action, and have to be literally lubed out of the GI with mucus. The best way to rebuild it is carbohydrate with some protein, that wont itself have any rough or drying properties. Mucus is mostly carbohydrate

I wonder if some bodies are so messed up that one may need an irritant like bran to make stools easy to pass? For me, dairy, shellfish, Peat-friend starch, and fruits have been incredibly drying. (TMI warning )....Acutally, it is almost like the mucus has been passing on its own, and then the stool seperately, which has been very painful and uncomfortable. I have been having severe constipation causing bleeding and mucus from this for over a year now and have been grain free (thought with starch as potato and tortillas) for a long time. I just started added the bran with a wholegrain quality sourdough to replace my evening starch. While I don't like what is is doing to my energy levels or cognition (terrible brain fog in the evening post bread with meal), it is making my stools the easiest to pass than they have been in a long while. There is still mucus, and I am not regular yet (still need a stimulant to "go"), but the blood has stopped at least for now. I am eating the bread with butter or coconut oil.
But as I am a female, so maybe this is all still related to estrogen and inflammation. I am going to contintue to test this and ride it out for two more weeks and see if I notice anything more positive or negative. But it is the first small relief I have had in over a year, in spite of antibiotics, doctor useless testing and other Peat friendly ideas (for example, the carrot salad was acutally the thing that increased my constipation and caused me increased pain). So that is something I think. But overall, I am still at a loss of how to fix this.

 

[raypeatclips]

@Peata Or anyone else experiment with wheat bran? Has anyone noticed anything worth commenting on, what did you conclude from your experiment? I have been interested in wheat bran remembering Ray in an email saying to me it was protective

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

 

[johnwester130]

sourdough bread isn't that bad for you

it's not ideal, and starch presorption can be avoided by eating it with coconut oil.

a glass of milk with it will balance the phosphate

 

[raypeatclips]

sourdough bread isn't that bad for you

it's not ideal, and starch presorption can be avoided by eating it with coconut oil.

a glass of milk with it will balance the phosphate

It wouldn't have the estrogen reducing effect of wheat bran though, would it? That is what I'm most interested in.

 

[johnwester130]

It wouldn't have the estrogen reducing effect of wheat bran though, would it? That is what I'm most interested in.

if you eat it with coconut oil ? why not ?

 

[raypeatclips]

if you eat it with coconut oil ? why not ?

I was under the impression wheat bran was the factor that reduced estrogen (from the original post and Ray saying it is protective) Wheat flour I am not sure would have the same effects. I am not saying sourdough is a negative food Peat has said sourdough bread would be better than regular, but I don't see how it could reduce estrogen, which is the topic of this thread. I am not too familiar with how sourdough is made though, do they use any bran?

 

[Kartoffel]

I tried wheat bran for a week. It didn't feel good and disturbed my digestion, which was otherwise very good at the time. Studies show that wheat bran increases the incidence of bowel and colon cancer.

Nutr Cancer. 1984;6(2):77-85.
Enhancement of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced large bowel tumorigenesis in Balb/c mice by corn, soybean, and wheat brans.
Clapp NK, Henke MA, London JF, Shock TL.
This study was designed to determine the effects of four well-characterized dietary brans on large bowel tumorigenesis induced in mice with 1,2-dimethylhydrazine (DMH). Eight-week-old barrier-derived male Balb/c mice were fed a semisynthetic diet with 20% bran added (either corn, soybean, soft winter wheat, or hard spring wheat) or a no-fiber-added control diet. Half of each group was given DMH (20 mg/kg body weight/week, subcutaneously for 10 weeks) beginning at 11 weeks of age. Surviving mice were killed 40 weeks after the first DMH injection. Tumors were not found in mice not subjected to DMH. In DMH-treated mice, tumors were found almost exclusively in the distal colon. Tumor incidences were as follows: controls, 11%; soybean group, 44%; soft winter wheat group, 48%; hard spring wheat group, 58%; and corn group, 72%. Tumors per tumor-bearing mouse ranged from 1.4 to 1.6, except in the corn group, which had 2.1. A positive correlation was found between percentage of neutral detergent fiber in the brans and tumor incidences but not between the individual components of cellulose, hemicellulose, or lignin. The enhancement of DMH-induced large bowel tumorigenesis by all four bran types may reflect a species and/or mouse strain effect that is bran-source related. These data emphasize the importance of using well-defined bran in all “fiber” studies.

Cancer Res. 1983 Sep;43(9):4057-61.
Enhancement of rat colon carcinogenesis by wheat bran consumption during the stage of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine administration.
Jacobs LR.
These results demonstrate that dietary wheat bran, a fiber which produces a hyperproliferative response in the colon, significantly increases colon carcinogenesis when fed to rats during the stage of carcinogen administration. This effect appears to be further enhanced when the wheat bran is totally removed from the diet following the stage of carcinogen administration. These data indicate that the hyperproliferative effects of wheat bran appear to outweigh any preventive actions that bran may have on colon carcinogenesis by altering the bulk of intestinal contents and their transit time through the bowel.

 

[Peata]

@Peata Or anyone else experiment with wheat bran? Has anyone noticed anything worth commenting on, what did you conclude from your experiment? I have been interested in wheat bran remembering Ray in an email saying to me it was protective

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

That was a long time ago, so I don't remember details. I just didn't think it helped anything, estrogen or otherwise, and didn't feel like it was good for me to have that much.

 

[raypeatclips]

I tried wheat bran for a week. It didn't feel good and disturbed my digestion, which was otherwise very good at the time. Studies show that wheat bran increases the incidence of bowel and colon cancer.

Nutr Cancer. 1984;6(2):77-85.
Enhancement of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced large bowel tumorigenesis in Balb/c mice by corn, soybean, and wheat brans.
Clapp NK, Henke MA, London JF, Shock TL.
This study was designed to determine the effects of four well-characterized dietary brans on large bowel tumorigenesis induced in mice with 1,2-dimethylhydrazine (DMH). Eight-week-old barrier-derived male Balb/c mice were fed a semisynthetic diet with 20% bran added (either corn, soybean, soft winter wheat, or hard spring wheat) or a no-fiber-added control diet. Half of each group was given DMH (20 mg/kg body weight/week, subcutaneously for 10 weeks) beginning at 11 weeks of age. Surviving mice were killed 40 weeks after the first DMH injection. Tumors were not found in mice not subjected to DMH. In DMH-treated mice, tumors were found almost exclusively in the distal colon. Tumor incidences were as follows: controls, 11%; soybean group, 44%; soft winter wheat group, 48%; hard spring wheat group, 58%; and corn group, 72%. Tumors per tumor-bearing mouse ranged from 1.4 to 1.6, except in the corn group, which had 2.1. A positive correlation was found between percentage of neutral detergent fiber in the brans and tumor incidences but not between the individual components of cellulose, hemicellulose, or lignin. The enhancement of DMH-induced large bowel tumorigenesis by all four bran types may reflect a species and/or mouse strain effect that is bran-source related. These data emphasize the importance of using well-defined bran in all “fiber” studies.

Cancer Res. 1983 Sep;43(9):4057-61.
Enhancement of rat colon carcinogenesis by wheat bran consumption during the stage of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine administration.
Jacobs LR.
These results demonstrate that dietary wheat bran, a fiber which produces a hyperproliferative response in the colon, significantly increases colon carcinogenesis when fed to rats during the stage of carcinogen administration. This effect appears to be further enhanced when the wheat bran is totally removed from the diet following the stage of carcinogen administration. These data indicate that the hyperproliferative effects of wheat bran appear to outweigh any preventive actions that bran may have on colon carcinogenesis by altering the bulk of intestinal contents and their transit time through the bowel.

Interesting, thanks for the studies.

That was a long time ago, so I don't remember details. I just didn't think it helped anything, estrogen or otherwise, and didn't feel like it was good for me to have that much.

Thanks for the update.

 

[ddjd]

any more updates a year on?

 

[ddjd]

@Peata @Such_Saturation @SaltGirl could it actually be the very high betaine content in wheat bran that contributes to its anti estrogen effect. betaine is a methyl donor and excellent for estrogen excretion

 

[Jessie]

Really old thread here, but I'd like to go on record saying I've had positive experiences with wheat bran before. It's a non-fermentable insoluble fiber, so it should (in theory) end up doing a lot of the same stuff mushrooms, carrots, bamboo, berries, and cocoa would do. Namely speeding up transit therefore reducing bacterial load. Peat never endorsed it, but he did specifically state in his clip about oat bran that wheat bran did NOT cause the same increase in colon cancer as oat bran did.