What's Wrong With Grains

[damngoodcoffee]

I'm a believer in starch, but man whole grains suck! Ate quite a lot of rye bread a while ago and my teeth feel weak and libido is gone. The feeling in my teeth after eating whole grains is like no other tooth pain etc. I noticed it long before i knew anything about phytic acid or anything about food.
I got massive cavities when i was vegan and i believe whole grains was the biggest reason. I ate loads of them.

I have been having a good libido lately and oh man this empty feeling in my balls is not how a man should feel!
I have had lots of libido/erection problems for many years but lately thanks to following Peat they're gone.
Whole grains seem to destroy my libido.

 

[Jsaute21]

I eat grains, yes. I eat white rice, buckwheat, and wheat. I generally only eat wheat in the form of sourdough bread or sprouted whole wheat like spelt. Either way the grain has been broken down and is more easily digested and the nutrients more accessible.

For the most

Perhaps, but you originally said corn tortillas and sourdough, which if used as a main carbohydrate source will have enough PUFA to be harmful. I wasn't commenting on wheat. Even though it's quite inflammatory.

Never disagree with my man @tca300 but it is possible to get corn tortillas and sourdough with no pufa. Check out soft corn torilla from chipotles site & i don't have a link for the sourdough i occasionally use but it is whole wheat flour, white flour, yeast & salt. Obviously not the same quality source as fruit or potatoes but seems pretty acceptable if one is in decent metabolic shape.

Chipotle — Ingredient Statement

 

[Sunny Jack]

From what I can tell, whole grains ate terrible for teeth. The phytates and the unfavorable phosphate to ratio ate often problematic. If the Scotch were eating porridge oats all their lives, with minimal dairy, it is unsurprising that they should suffer from weak teeth.

 

[tca300]

For the most


Never disagree with my man @tca300 but it is possible to get corn tortillas and sourdough with no pufa. Check out soft corn torilla from chipotles site & i don't have a link for the sourdough i occasionally use but it is whole wheat flour, white flour, yeast & salt. Obviously not the same quality source as fruit or potatoes but seems pretty acceptable if one is in decent metabolic shape.

Chipotle — Ingredient Statement

Without added pufa, 200 cals of plain corn has more PUFA than two large eggs.. its significant. Actual sourdough as far as I know, isn't easy to get in the USA, most is wheat with small amounts of actual sourdough. Most grains are higher in PUFA in comparison to fruits, white rice is a commonly used exception.
Not trying to make waves, just saying, corn isn't a low PUFA food, unless the fat is removed during the processing.

 

[TeslaFan]

About grains and teeth: I cannot argue against experience, but teeth pain probably comes from increased phosphate to calcium ratio, as mentioned, and not from phytic acid in grains. Phytic acid in grains is already bounded to minerals. It cannot attach to any minerals without first releasing those it is bounded to. So, the only thing we can achieve is an exchange of minerals. After Phytic acid donates minerals, it can then attach to excess minerals / toxins in the environment, such as iron. This is preferential under normal circumstances. I am not talking about supplemental phytic acid, but the one in grains.

Also, grains are becoming synonym with grain starch (i.e., refined grains). With removed germ and bran, the thing left is endosperm (starch), which does not spoil because it's not food, it's just dried complex sugar. Bacteria and mold ignore it, so it's perfect for storage and distribution. There are no vitamins, minerals, or enzymes in it. It is then "enriched" with iron dust. The end result is starch mixed with free unbounded iron (a free radical) and no protective phytic acid. This has nothing to do with grains anymore.

I think that grain starch extraction (a.k.a. grain refinement) is one of the great evils of modern nutrition, in line with the introduction of "essential fatty acids" to human food chain.

 

[Dave Clark]

Without added pufa, 200 cals of plain corn has more PUFA than two large eggs.. its significant. Actual sourdough as far as I know, isn't easy to get in the USA, most is wheat with small amounts of actual sourdough. Most grains are higher in PUFA in comparison to fruits, white rice is a commonly used exception.
Not trying to make waves, just saying, corn isn't a low PUFA food, unless the fat is removed during the processing.

Doesn't Ray like corn tortillas? Why would he avoid berry seeds, but then eat corn tortillas that have more PUFAs? Sort of confusing to me.

 

[tca300]

Doesn't Ray like corn tortillas? Why would he avoid berry seeds, but then eat corn tortillas that have more PUFAs? Sort of confusing to me.

He only eats it on very rare occasions. As for why he does, I dont know.

 

[cyclops]

I been getting fresh sourdough at Whole Foods...no Bueno?

 

[tca300]

I been getting fresh sourdough at Whole Foods...no Bueno?

Even if its actual sourdough, It will be higher in PUFA than low fat fruits, white rice, or potatoes. But you may not be trying to restrict PUFA or potential bacteria food, etc...
Ray wouldn't recommend it over other carbohydrates like fruits and lactose, but most dont go by his recommendations on this forum. Kinda cherry pick what they are willing to do, etc...

 

[cyclops]

Kinda cherry pick what they are willing to do, etc...

mmmm...cherries.

 

[tca300]

mmmm...cherries.

 

[A.R]

About grains and teeth: I cannot argue against experience, but teeth pain probably comes from increased phosphate to calcium ratio, as mentioned, and not from phytic acid in grains. Phytic acid in grains is already bounded to minerals. It cannot attach to any minerals without first releasing those it is bounded to. So, the only thing we can achieve is an exchange of minerals. After Phytic acid donates minerals, it can then attach to excess minerals / toxins in the environment, such as iron. This is preferential under normal circumstances. I am not talking about supplemental phytic acid, but the one in grains.

Also, grains are becoming synonym with grain starch (i.e., refined grains). With removed germ and bran, the thing left is endosperm (starch), which does not spoil because it's not food, it's just dried complex sugar. Bacteria and mold ignore it, so it's perfect for storage and distribution. There are no vitamins, minerals, or enzymes in it. It is then "enriched" with iron dust. The end result is starch mixed with free unbounded iron (a free radical) and no protective phytic acid. This has nothing to do with grains anymore.

I think that grain starch extraction (a.k.a. grain refinement) is one of the great evils of modern nutrition, in line with the introduction of "essential fatty acids" to human food chain.

In your opinion, would you say whole grain flour is better than refined (as long as a persons gut can tolerate whole grain that is)

 

[TeslaFan]

In your opinion, would you say whole grain flour is better than refined (as long as a persons gut can tolerate whole grain that is)

Grains and refined grains are not comparable things. Grains are removed in the refining process, only starch is left. Labeling the starch as "refined grains" is language abuse. Ray Peat talked about this problem with language, and sorry I cannot recall where, but Aldous Huxley in Doors of Perception explains it as well.

If you want to eat starch, potatoes are much safer. Even plain sugar is safer.

I don't use flour. When I eat grains, I cook them in their whole state (berries), and sometimes crash them about half-way for faster cooking.

 

[equipoise]

Necroing but I found that traditional pancakes with wheat (no added iron here in Europe) with some home made orange marmelade and melted cacao is delicious and has nice macros plus I don't suffer from them at all. It's a once a fortnight treat when I feel like eating some wheat, and home made bread is pretty good aswell