What's Worse High Fat No Starch Or Low Fat Higher Starch?

Uselis

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Feb 5, 2015
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I understand it depends on person's digestive state but I have somewhat similar digestion on both. I feel slightly better on lower fat (around 70g out of 3500kcal) and sugar/white rice template vs completely no starch but high fat.Third option low fat no starch simply can't provide enough calories for me.

I know Peat is not a fan of starch and people (myself included) had positive results excluding starch even for brief period of time. However high fat presents other issue: too much Pufa. If I want to stay satisfied calorie wise on no starch template my fat intake goes as high as 130g and around 7g of Pufa. On white rice and low fat I am bellow 3g.

As I said I feel slightly better on low fat starch from rice + sugar but I wonder what is healthier long term?

Thank you
 

Fidelio

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Feb 28, 2020
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0.5-1g fat per kg bodyweight.
120+g protein.
Rest carbs.

If you are sedentary you want more fats, and therefore less carbs. If you’re active you want less fats and more carbs.
 

Barry

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I can only discuss my own personal results. I was eating vegan ketogenic and I feel like I almost died. I lost an incredible amount of weight and had no energy. I like to live a high energy lifestyle, and I feel that is only possible when you eat high carb. So lots of fruit, fruit juice, and sugar, and I guess some starch like rice (which i always soak and then cook in a pressure cooker). Peat has said in one of his books, that the 2 ideal food groups are animal proteins (gelatin) and fruit. And I think if you include a lot of these 2 groups, you will be on the right path.
 

baccheion

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I can only discuss my own personal results. I was eating vegan ketogenic and I feel like I almost died. I lost an incredible amount of weight and had no energy. I like to live a high energy lifestyle, and I feel that is only possible when you eat high carb. So lots of fruit, fruit juice, and sugar, and I guess some starch like rice (which i always soak and then cook in a pressure cooker). Peat has said in one of his books, that the 2 ideal food groups are animal proteins (gelatin) and fruit. And I think if you include a lot of these 2 groups, you will be on the right path.
As in fruitarian? What examples?
 

PxD

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As in fruitarian? What examples?

Fruit isn't part of a ketogenic diet.

I have no idea how one would survive on a vegan ketogenic diet. It sounds like a bad joke. Did he just shovel spoonfuls of coconut oil into himself all day?
 

MitchMitchell

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Oct 26, 2020
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Seems that very low starch or lower carbs in general is incompatible with physical activity. Went for a bit of a run yesterday eve + some bodyweight stuff and I hit the wall so quick. Then had my hands shaking from the adrenaline. Then again I’m 10% fat year round and muscular so there’s that.

only viable if fully sedentary imo, and with extra fat to burn.
 

Cloudhands

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Jan 11, 2019
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Ive been doing low fat no starch and its been pretty good. I dont know if id feel better or worse if i added in more fat but i like it so far. When i do high starch i have to wipe my butt like a million times to get all the poo and sometimes its like theres a long that didnt fully come out and im just wiping the edge of it over and over like wiping the end of a marker or something. Starch also makes me fat lol. I have way more stable temps on no starch and ive also been making like psychological progress like working through having a stressful attitude. I think that if a kid had a choice between starch diet or no starch diet theyd chose no starch. It tastes better and doesnt feel like a chore or responsibility to eat
 

Barry

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Fruit isn't part of a ketogenic diet.

I have no idea how one would survive on a vegan ketogenic diet. It sounds like a bad joke. Did he just shovel spoonfuls of coconut oil into himself all day?
This was before I ever heard of Ray Peat. I ate a lot of almond butter and a lot of coconut butter. I generally felt terrible. And would never recommend vegan keto or any form of keto. Some people seem to do well on a keto/carnivore diet, but I have always felt way better when I increase my carb intake, so something like 80% carbs, 18% protein and 2% fat - this is basically a skim milk, sugar, OJ and fruit diet, and of course coffee!
 

MitchMitchell

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This was before I ever heard of Ray Peat. I ate a lot of almond butter and a lot of coconut butter. I generally felt terrible. And would never recommend vegan keto or any form of keto. Some people seem to do well on a keto/carnivore diet, but I have always felt way better when I increase my carb intake, so something like 80% carbs, 18% protein and 2% fat - this is basically a skim milk, sugar, OJ and fruit diet, and of course coffee!

you never got greasy skin or energy highs and lows from such a low fat diet? I always get them. But we are all somewhat different I suppose.
 

baccheion

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You'd need at least 10% for each macro in the long run. That's 33.33 grams of fat at 3,000 calories.
Fruit isn't part of a ketogenic diet.

I have no idea how one would survive on a vegan ketogenic diet. It sounds like a bad joke. Did he just shovel spoonfuls of coconut oil into himself all day?
That was regarding "the 2 ideal food groups are animal". That is, is he effectively switching to and talking about a fruitarian approach.
 

Nik665

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Sep 3, 2020
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I understand it depends on person's digestive state but I have somewhat similar digestion on both. I feel slightly better on lower fat (around 70g out of 3500kcal) and sugar/white rice template vs completely no starch but high fat.Third option low fat no starch simply can't provide enough calories for me.

I know Peat is not a fan of starch and people (myself included) had positive results excluding starch even for brief period of time. However high fat presents other issue: too much Pufa. If I want to stay satisfied calorie wise on no starch template my fat intake goes as high as 130g and around 7g of Pufa. On white rice and low fat I am bellow 3g.

As I said I feel slightly better on low fat starch from rice + sugar but I wonder what is healthier long term?

Thank you
Peat is fine with corn tortillas potatoes with butter and has even mentioned salted white rice if one can digest it it’s easy to get calories from those
 

gaze

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Jun 13, 2019
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peat told me over email he would rather rely on butter for calories as opposed to white rice in a food shortage. For him personally, starch is a no go no matter what unless occasionally in mexico eating corn.

I personally, sometimes use ice cream as a calorie source when i cant think of anything else to eat. Other times I try relying on oats and white rice. Theres a lot of ups a down in both situations. Personally, oats work well for a few days, they increase bowel movements, but then the brain fog and other stuff kick in. So usually I go back and forth between higher starch and higher fat.
 
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