What's the rationale behind Ray Peat drinking lidocaine to cure colitis?

thetaflow

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I found this quote from Ray Peat:

"Ray: I had constantly bleeding colitis for more than a year, and when I took about 20 to 30 mg of lidocaine (in a 2% solution meant for oral, dental use) the symptoms stopped and haven’t returned in more than 30 years"

What's the rational/mechanism behind this? Why did it cure his colitis, and do you think it's generally a good idea to try for colitis?

Thank you!
 

dabdabdab

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For its anti inflammatory effect. Inflammation is the number one reason behind 90 percent of degenerative diseases
 

S-VV

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The same reason he recommends amantadine for autoimmunity. There is a method to his madness, and it comes down to his physiological framework, which is surprisingly complex and well developed.

One of Rays interests is the topic of inefficient or prolongued excitation and the generalities it has. In his view, neuronal (over)excitability has strong paralela to inappropriate inflammation, ie immune excitability, and so he argues that substances that stabilize (protective inhibition) the cell (neurons in the case of lidocaine) do so on a fundamental and structural level (water structure etc ...) and will be helpful for all particular manifestations of inappropriate excitation, autoimmunity being one of them.

This of course is incompatible with mainstream, which states that lidocaine acts on sodium channels and alters the membrane potential
 

dabdabdab

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The same reason he recommends amantadine for autoimmunity. There is a method to his madness, and it comes down to his physiological framework, which is surprisingly complex and well developed.

One of Rays interests is the topic of inefficient or prolongued excitation and the generalities it has. In his view, neuronal (over)excitability has strong paralela to inappropriate inflammation, ie immune excitability, and so he argues that substances that stabilize (protective inhibition) the cell (neurons in the case of lidocaine) do so on a fundamental and structural level (water structure etc ...) and will be helpful for all particular manifestations of inappropriate excitation, autoimmunity being one of them.

This of course is incompatible with mainstream, which states that lidocaine acts on sodium channels and alters the membrane potential
Sorry to be off topic, can you please tell me what's your diet?
You seem very knowledgeable.
 

Korven

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The same reason he recommends amantadine for autoimmunity. There is a method to his madness, and it comes down to his physiological framework, which is surprisingly complex and well developed.

One of Rays interests is the topic of inefficient or prolongued excitation and the generalities it has. In his view, neuronal (over)excitability has strong paralela to inappropriate inflammation, ie immune excitability, and so he argues that substances that stabilize (protective inhibition) the cell (neurons in the case of lidocaine) do so on a fundamental and structural level (water structure etc ...) and will be helpful for all particular manifestations of inappropriate excitation, autoimmunity being one of them.

This of course is incompatible with mainstream, which states that lidocaine acts on sodium channels and alters the membrane potential

I wonder if cyproheptadine also works this way?

Since a bad viral infection in 2015 I feel like my immune system has been stuck in an "agitated" overexcited state, basically causing CFS symptoms. My health wasn't exactly perfect prior to that event but it definitely got way worse after that. I've found that taking 2 mg cypro completely shuts down any feelings of autoimmunity and malaise and it's also amazing for sleep, I wake up and feel groggy from deep sleep. I don't know how safe it is to take this stuff long-term but to be honest I'm kind of addicted to cypro just because it shuts down the CFS malaise and it helps so much with sleep.

Slowly I'm getting back to pre-sick state with a zero starch diet of animal protein/fruit/honey, thyroid (NDT), progesterone, cycling through antimicrobials/antibiotics and now cyproheptadine.
 

laleto12

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I wonder if cyproheptadine also works this way?

Since a bad viral infection in 2015 I feel like my immune system has been stuck in an "agitated" overexcited state, basically causing CFS symptoms. My health wasn't exactly perfect prior to that event but it definitely got way worse after that. I've found that taking 2 mg cypro completely shuts down any feelings of autoimmunity and malaise and it's also amazing for sleep, I wake up and feel groggy from deep sleep. I don't know how safe it is to take this stuff long-term but to be honest I'm kind of addicted to cypro just because it shuts down the CFS malaise and it helps so much with sleep.

Slowly I'm getting back to pre-sick state with a zero starch diet of animal protein/fruit/honey, thyroid (NDT), progesterone, cycling through antimicrobials/antibiotics and now cyproheptadine.
do you think waking up groggy is from deep sleep? is it a good thing?
 

laleto12

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no it’s not. It generally means you hyperventilate while sleeping. Mouth breathing usually to blame.
I meant from cyproheptadine, normally I dont wake up groggy however when I take cypro I feel extremely heavy the next morning. Moody all day long too.

I never mouth breath btw but sometimes i feel like im hyperventilating and taking shallow breaths.
 

Korven

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do you think waking up groggy is from deep sleep? is it a good thing?

To be honest I don't know, I'm not really tracking my sleep with objective measurements. I just know that when I take cypro I sleep through the entire night and wake up feeling rested vs waking up all the time and being grumpy in the morning because I didn't sleep well.

Yesterday I didn't take any cyproheptadine and still slept well so maybe it has some more permanent effects.
 

Jessie

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The caines are very potent anti-inflammatory, anti-stress substances. In an older newsletter by Ray, he referred to lidocaine as an "adaptogen" and he said procaine had positive effects for just about everything it was tested for. When I first tried lidocaine a few months ago, it reminded me of cypro but without the sedation. I suppose this is because lidocaine has anti-histamine properties as well.

That's got me to wondering about cocaine. If lidocaine and procaine are so beneficial, what about cocaine? Cocaine abuse is generally associated with all sorts of health complications, but pop culture has also tied a certain stigma to cocaine. Most drug addicts take large amounts, and they also snort it or shoot it. I'm wondering if 20-25mgs of cocaine could be beneficial much like how lidocaine and procaine is.
 

Vileplume

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To be honest I don't know, I'm not really tracking my sleep with objective measurements. I just know that when I take cypro I sleep through the entire night and wake up feeling rested vs waking up all the time and being grumpy in the morning because I didn't sleep well.

Yesterday I didn't take any cyproheptadine and still slept well so maybe it has some more permanent effects.
I’ve noticed that cooked white button mushrooms have a similar effect on sleep. I track my sleep with my Apple Watch, and both cypro and white button mushrooms reliably increase my deep sleep by 30-45 minutes a night.

There’s also a Peat quote where he says something like “I’ve been experimenting with cooked white button mushrooms before sleep and they have a similar effect to the anti-histamines.”
 

Broken man

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The same reason he recommends amantadine for autoimmunity. There is a method to his madness, and it comes down to his physiological framework, which is surprisingly complex and well developed.

One of Rays interests is the topic of inefficient or prolongued excitation and the generalities it has. In his view, neuronal (over)excitability has strong paralela to inappropriate inflammation, ie immune excitability, and so he argues that substances that stabilize (protective inhibition) the cell (neurons in the case of lidocaine) do so on a fundamental and structural level (water structure etc ...) and will be helpful for all particular manifestations of inappropriate excitation, autoimmunity being one of them.

This of course is incompatible with mainstream, which states that lidocaine acts on sodium channels and alters the membrane potential
Can I ask you where he was talking about amantadine? Thank you.
 
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I meant from cyproheptadine, normally I dont wake up groggy however when I take cypro I feel extremely heavy the next morning. Moody all day long too.

I never mouth breath btw but sometimes i feel like im hyperventilating and taking shallow breaths.

ah okay. Got it.
 

S-VV

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Sorry to be off topic, can you please tell me what's your diet?
You seem very knowledgeable.
Heh, thanks! My diet is sugared milk, fruit juices, variable meat to cravings, ice cream and chocolate. I periodically add starch only to get wrecked and abandon it until I try it again, like a battered housewife.

I should add that this diet has not improved my somewhat severe pathology that I have since childhood, however I think its protective against further degeneration.
 

S-VV

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Can I ask you where he was talking about amantadine? Thank you.
In the november 2016 newsletter:

Drugs that are currently used with some success for treating diseases that aren't thought of as "autoimmune," such as memantine used in Alzheimer's disease, will probably be useful in the "autoimmune diseases," that is, in diseases that involve estrogen and inflammation, including cancer.

He actually mentions memantine, but seems to use memantine and amantadine interchangeably in his writings
 

dabdabdab

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Heh, thanks! My diet is sugared milk, fruit juices, variable meat to cravings, ice cream and chocolate. I periodically add starch only to get wrecked and abandon it until I try it again, like a battered housewife.

I should add that this diet has not improved my somewhat severe pathology that I have since childhood, however I think its protective against further degeneration.
Thank you. Do you think it's a good diet for weight management and diabetes ?
 

Korven

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I’ve noticed that cooked white button mushrooms have a similar effect on sleep. I track my sleep with my Apple Watch, and both cypro and white button mushrooms reliably increase my deep sleep by 30-45 minutes a night.

There’s also a Peat quote where he says something like “I’ve been experimenting with cooked white button mushrooms before sleep and they have a similar effect to the anti-histamines.”

Thanks that information is gold. I'll try the well-boiled mushrooms and see if I can replicate the cyproheptadine magic. Do you also eat the mushrooms before sleep?
 

S-VV

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Thank you. Do you think it's a good diet for weight management and diabetes ?
Thats a complicated issue, because diabetes and weight loss management don’t necessarily go hand in hand. For weight loss, calories out has to be greater than calories in, provided there is no gross hormonal imbalance or outstanding inflammation. So a diet conducive to weight loss, once calories are somewhat reined in, will be one that avoids hypoglycaemic drops (to reduce cravings), doesnt add unnecessary inflammation and supports a good hormonal balance. These 3 objectives will be achievable in different ways for different people, and experimentation is the way. However, some patterns are helpful, like the fact that starch and pufa usually are inflammatory and that adequate protein and fat support steroid levels.

Diabetes (again notwithstanding chronic inflammation, which is diabetogenic) is a more singular issue of excess fatty acid oxidation, which directly impairs glucose tolerance. Aspirin, niacinamide, meldonium and other inhibitors of lipolysis and beta oxidation are directly therapeutic for diabetes(but they can increase weight in some people). Thiamine can also help. Substances that oppose cortisol also help since it directly causes high blood sugar.
 
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