What's The Ideal Bodyfat Percentage?

Gadsie

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I'm not sure if we can currently even answer this question, because I have not found any conclusive studies on it. Back when I was a litter fatter I used to tell myself that "a bit of body fat is healthy", but it was actually just an excuse. I see this "body fat is healthy" claim being used a lot in conventional and alternative health communities a lot without any scientific backing. Given that the leaner, the more attractive you are generally considered (mainly for men, given that you have some muscle mass). Essential body fat is 2-5% according to NASM. Which is extremely low (pretty much doesn't exist). I wonder if anything above this might already be compromising health.
 

squanch

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There really are very little studies.
In this one women rated 12 % bodyfat as the most attractive, generally attractiveness correlates with health.
| Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences
All facial and body measurements were linearly related to attractiveness, except body adiposity, which showed a curvilinear relationship, peaking at a body fat percentage of 12 per cent.

Not sure if being very lean (below 10 %) would have any advantages to staying between 10 % - 15 % bodyfat. It's extremely impractical to hold that long term anyways, if you ever get sick and can't eat much for 1-2 weeks, you will lose a ton of muscle mass.
 

RedStaR

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There really are very little studies.
In this one women rated 12 % bodyfat as the most attractive, generally attractiveness correlates with health.
| Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences


Not sure if being very lean (below 10 %) would have any advantages to staying between 10 % - 15 % bodyfat. It's extremely impractical to hold that long term anyways, if you ever get sick and can't eat much for 1-2 weeks, you will lose a ton of muscle mass.

Lol, no.
 
T

tca300

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I feel best when Im under 15%. I have never tried to go below ~7-8% so I dont know what it feels like. I would imagine that when you get too low the body freaks out because of low emergency energy storage.
One thing I especially like about ~10% body fat is that light ( red/infrared ) light seems to have a much greater effect than when Im at 15%+ body fat. Probably because it doesnt have much fat tissue to penetrate through and can hit bones/organs better. Less estrogen from fat tissues via aromatase, would be a plus, ( I noticed increased estrogen from gaining weight on hydrogenated coconut oil ). I dont know anything, just my personal observations through experimentation.
 

encerent

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I feel best when Im under 15%. I have never tried to go below ~7-8% so I dont know what it feels like. I would imagine that when you get too low the body freaks out because of low emergency energy storage.
One thing I especially like about ~10% body fat is that light ( red/infrared ) light seems to have a much greater effect than when Im at 15%+ body fat. Probably because it doesnt have much fat tissue to penetrate through and can hit bones/organs better. Less estrogen from fat tissues via aromatase, would be a plus, ( I noticed increased estrogen from gaining weight on hydrogenated coconut oil ). I dont know anything, just my personal observations through experimentation.

I'd agree about 10%-12% for feeling and looking good. This is pretty easily achievable with very high sugar, and virtually no fat diet. Though getting virtually no fat and really high sugar isn't that easy to do...
 
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Gadsie

Gadsie

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I feel best when Im under 15%. I have never tried to go below ~7-8% so I dont know what it feels like. I would imagine that when you get too low the body freaks out because of low emergency energy storage.
One thing I especially like about ~10% body fat is that light ( red/infrared ) light seems to have a much greater effect than when Im at 15%+ body fat. Probably because it doesnt have much fat tissue to penetrate through and can hit bones/organs better. Less estrogen from fat tissues via aromatase, would be a plus, ( I noticed increased estrogen from gaining weight on hydrogenated coconut oil ). I dont know anything, just my personal observations through experimentation.
Interesting. Have you done a DEXA? I'd want to do one this week because I'm the leanest I've ever been and really curious. But it costs €150 euro here.
Anyway, did you lose a lot of weight just from stopping eating coconut oil, how much were you eating? If I recall correctly you ate zero fat apart from the HCO. Is the high PUFA/SFA ratio not a concern for you when all the fats you eat are from fruits/veggies?
 

Ideonaut

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I'm not sure if we can currently even answer this question, because I have not found any conclusive studies on it. Back when I was a litter fatter I used to tell myself that "a bit of body fat is healthy", but it was actually just an excuse. I see this "body fat is healthy" claim being used a lot in conventional and alternative health communities a lot without any scientific backing. Given that the leaner, the more attractive you are generally considered (mainly for men, given that you have some muscle mass). Essential body fat is 2-5% according to NASM. Which is extremely low (pretty much doesn't exist). I wonder if anything above this might already be compromising health.
I'd like to try to duplicate your leanness. How did you do it?
 
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Gadsie

Gadsie

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I'd like to try to duplicate your leanness. How did you do it?
Honestly the straightforward way: calorie deficit. Walking an hour everyday and eating 2800 calories of peaty foods (mainly low fat things, apart from some chocolate and cheese). 2800 might seem like a lot but when you honestly track every bite it's not that much. Most people that think they're eating 2000 are eating closer to 3000.
That combined with intermittent fasting and lifting weights with enough protein.

Basically, just track your weight loss and calories and adjust accordingly.
 
T

tca300

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Interesting. Have you done a DEXA? I'd want to do one this week because I'm the leanest I've ever been and really curious. But it costs €150 euro here.
Anyway, did you lose a lot of weight just from stopping eating coconut oil, how much were you eating? If I recall correctly you ate zero fat apart from the HCO. Is the high PUFA/SFA ratio not a concern for you when all the fats you eat are from fruits/veggies?
Because no one method is super accurate, using multiple ways and averaging it out is best I think.
Im no stranger to body fat levels. I know about what my body fat percentage is just from experience and testing it while at different body compositions throughout my life.
I gained weight on hydrogenated coconut oil a while back, I kept my other foods the same and added about 500 calories of oil to see about the effects.
Weight loss in my opinion is about energy balance. Manipulating micronutrients, micronutrients, light, activity, etc... can dramatically increase caloric needs and therefore allow fat loss while eating more than previously, but unfortunately it seems there is always a point at which you can exceed your energy needs and then start gaining fat.
I know how much food I need to maintain weight, gain, ect, while eating different foods, so I eat a little less than I need to maintain.
I personally like going very low with PUFA ( .5 grams or less ) , and low total fat ( 20 grams or less ).
You can lose fat eating junk, but avoiding harmful foods and substances ( I agree whith Ray Peat about what is harmful vs not ) is what is important to me, and what I personally do.
 

Herbie

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Until there is an accurate way to measure body fat % no one will know. Unless influence of muscle mass % can be isolated, no one will know.
 

cyclops

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Honestly the straightforward way: calorie deficit. Walking an hour everyday and eating 2800 calories of peaty foods (mainly low fat things, apart from some chocolate and cheese). 2800 might seem like a lot but when you honestly track every bite it's not that much. Most people that think they're eating 2000 are eating closer to 3000.
That combined with intermittent fasting and lifting weights with enough protein.

Basically, just track your weight loss and calories and adjust accordingly.

I was hoping that if I took my current Peat diet and just went ultra low fat, the body fat would just melt off to be used as energy since I won't be getting much fat in diet. But you think counting calories is definitely necessary? Do you feel like you're actually on a diet when eating 2800 calories? Meaning, you feel you could eat more in order to be satisfied, but you don't.
 

DHT

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i think the lower the bodyfat the better it is but under 4 % i personally wouldnt go. Just look up helmut strebl ppl assume he has lowest bodyfat. Bodyfat is useless if you are a ultra fast metabolizer. In this state you dont need and you wont build up any bodyfat if you are perfect nourished . But in europe and america only 1 to 3 % are UFM also there excist p450 enzymes which are responsible for metabolizing pufas if you re adapted well you can also eat huge amounts of them with out getting harmed and stay ripped. But thats not for 99 % of the ppl the case. Btw i had my whole life a bodyfat percentage about 8 . Sometimes higher and sometimes less and it feels ****** awesome. I only gain weight if im not well nourished for eg not enough vitamin e which i think its very important to get rid of bodyfat espiacilly pufa bodyfat which only i can burn if i have enough vitamin e.
20 % + Bodyfat on older ppl is protective because its stores the harmful toxins in their bodies. And toxins in bodyfat isnt harmful as in your blood or organs.
 

cyclops

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i think the lower the bodyfat the better it is but under 4 % i personally wouldnt go. Just look up helmut strebl ppl assume he has lowest bodyfat. Bodyfat is useless if you are a ultra fast metabolizer. In this state you dont need and you wont build up any bodyfat if you are perfect nourished . But in europe and america only 1 to 3 % are UFM also there excist p450 enzymes which are responsible for metabolizing pufas if you re adapted well you can also eat huge amounts of them with out getting harmed and stay ripped. But thats not for 99 % of the ppl the case. Btw i had my whole life a bodyfat percentage about 8 . Sometimes higher and sometimes less and it feels ****** awesome. I only gain weight if im not well nourished for eg not enough vitamin e which i think its very important to get rid of bodyfat espiacilly pufa bodyfat which only i can burn if i have enough vitamin e.
20 % + Bodyfat on older ppl is protective because its stores the harmful toxins in their bodies. And toxins in bodyfat isnt harmful as in your blood or organs.

How much vitamin E do you take and how often? Orally or on skin?
 
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Gadsie

Gadsie

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Because no one method is super accurate, using multiple ways and averaging it out is best I think.
Im no stranger to body fat levels. I know about what my body fat percentage is just from experience and testing it while at different body compositions throughout my life.
I gained weight on hydrogenated coconut oil a while back, I kept my other foods the same and added about 500 calories of oil to see about the effects.
Weight loss in my opinion is about energy balance. Manipulating micronutrients, micronutrients, light, activity, etc... can dramatically increase caloric needs and therefore allow fat loss while eating more than previously, but unfortunately it seems there is always a point at which you can exceed your energy needs and then start gaining fat.
I know how much food I need to maintain weight, gain, ect, while eating different foods, so I eat a little less than I need to maintain.
I personally like going very low with PUFA ( .5 grams or less ) , and low total fat ( 20 grams or less ).
You can lose fat eating junk, but avoiding harmful foods and substances ( I agree whith Ray Peat about what is harmful vs not ) is what is important to me, and what I personally do.
For sure, calories in calories out still goes, we can only try to increase the "calories" out as much as possible. How do you get 0.5g of pufa? Even when I consume nothing but skim milk, potatoes and a little OJ, it's already above a gram.
 
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Gadsie

Gadsie

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I was hoping that if I took my current Peat diet and just went ultra low fat, the body fat would just melt off to be used as energy since I won't be getting much fat in diet. But you think counting calories is definitely necessary? Do you feel like you're actually on a diet when eating 2800 calories? Meaning, you feel you could eat more in order to be satisfied, but you don't.

Ultra low fat might increase metabolism slightly, but you should just track your weight. If youre not losing a bit of weight every week, just drop your calories a bit (like 100). And yeah it felt like dieting a little but not crazy. My maintenance is at around 3200, so 2800 was quite a significant cut, but those were the lowest days. Usually I ate in 3000-3100 range and just lost weight slowly. I'd make sure you eat the majority of your calories at night. During the day just drink some milk and coffee. This way you're a little bit hungry during the day, but you can always go to bed satisfied.
 
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I'm not sure if we can currently even answer this question, because I have not found any conclusive studies on it. Back when I was a litter fatter I used to tell myself that "a bit of body fat is healthy", but it was actually just an excuse. I see this "body fat is healthy" claim being used a lot in conventional and alternative health communities a lot without any scientific backing. Given that the leaner, the more attractive you are generally considered (mainly for men, given that you have some muscle mass). Essential body fat is 2-5% according to NASM. Which is extremely low (pretty much doesn't exist). I wonder if anything above this might already be compromising health.

You got it. Adiposity is toxicity. The true state of the human being is being lean because if you have to store fat then it's s sign that you're not living in optimal circumstances and that you should change. The body naturally regulates subcutaneous fat, the thin layer of fat under the skin, but anything past that is unnecessary and stores environmental toxins, makes it's own hormones in things called cyoktines, as well as being a place to store and release pufa. Fat puts an unnecessary strain on the organism. Keyword unnecessary. It's only necessary if you get caught in a famine. Then, in that famine, your body will turn to that fat, that food that you already ate a long time ago, to keep your organism alive until you find some sugar. But even a lean person can go a couple of weeks off of their fat in that state. Fat cells are like balloons that keep collecting fat and stretch bigger and bigger. Anorexics look the way they do because of muscle loss, not fat loss.

Anorexics are using their own muscles as a source of sugar instead of eating enough sugar or starch because the body always needs a constant source of sugar so it will get it from your own muscle if it has to but it prefers you to just eat it. Eat sugar/starch for energy and it's used for energy, not stored as fat, except in tiny amounts for what the body needs. Eat fat and it stores as fat, only to be released at a later time to be burned by muscle as FFA or turned into beta hydroxybutyric acid by the liver. Eat protein and some of it is used to rebuild your tissue and some of it converted into sugar.

Being overweight can hurt more than just your looks (diagram)

Hydrostatic body fat testing

Man Lives Off His Fat Stores For 382 Days

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