What's About PH? Acid-basic Balance, Sodium, Lactates Production

[Xisca]

All this is quite a mess in my head, and so, if some light can come into my darkness, I would be very thankful! :)

This quite common to speak about the problem of acidification, but I cannot find a lot in Peat's texts.
When "they" say that we must not have an acidifying diet, what pH are they talking about?
Is it blood's ph?

I did not understand what I read when Peat talks about the cell alcalisating, I think in a CO2 text.
He talks about the ph, but of the cell, not of the blood.

Mostly in health trends, they say that we should eat quite a lot of fruits and veggies, because they are the only way to alcalinize. Meat, starch and sugar are supposed to acidify. Usually they accuse white flour and cereals, and say that wholemeal is ok, that is where I do not see the difference... And how can sugar acidify, and fruit do not?

I cannot understand that Peat does not speak more about this, as too much acidity is said to be the cause of producing lactate instead of CO2. Or I did not read the right texts...

Then, what is the role of salt, sodium, in regulating pH? I have read about not good to eat salt when you want to balance pH... I also guess there is a link with PUFA, as it is supposed to be useful in desertic hot places, to maintain hydratation. PUFA are not good, but you die faster when dehydrate! Between 2 bad things, chose the less bad one....

 

[Xisca]

Forgot the link about alkalinity versus acidity:
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5411

 

[Xisca]

And I am sorry that I cannot translate all this:

http://blog.alkalinecare.com/2013/09/04 ... al-cancer/

Hoy sabemos que la célula sana vive en un medio alcalino rico en oxígeno, usa muy poco sodio para vivir y utiliza proteínas levógiras -con giro a la izquierda- que son estables en él.

las células sanas consiguen su energía por oxidación; es decir, gracias al oxígeno generan Adenosin Trifosfato o ATP -por sus siglas en inglés- que es la molécula base de la energía celular.
Pero cuando el terreno se acidifica y el oxígeno escasea sólo tiene una alternativa si no quiere morir:
encontrar otra manera de obtener energía. Y esa posibilidad existe y la explica el llamado Ciclo de Krebs.
Sencillamente en lugar de oxígeno el cuerpo utiliza ácido pirúvico mediante un fenómeno conocido como glicolisis que le permite obtener moléculas de ATP, pero que generando también ácido láctico y alcohol como residuos.

Se trata pues de una ruta anaeróbica -sin aire- para sobrevivir. Es decir, la célula sana aeróbica que vive en terreno alcalino se vuelve anaeróbica, pero en un entorno tan ácido que para poder soportarlo tiene que alcalinizar su núcleo, su citoplasma, para lo cual se carga de sodio de un modo desmesurado. Y asimismo utiliza para alimentarse proteínas dextrógiras en lugar de levógiras ya que las mismas viven en medios ácidos.

La clave está en el hígado, porque para que éste pueda llevar adelante la digestión necesita la presencia de una hormona -el cortisol- que sólo se encuentra en sangre cuando hay sol. Y como nuestros hábitos sociales nos hacen cenar cuando éste se ha ocultado -y por tanto, cuando su nivel en sangre es muy pobre- hacer una cena copiosa obliga a una digestión muy pesada. Y si se logra es gracias a que el hígado recibe de la glándula suprarrenal una hormona alternativa, la adrenalina -u hormona del estrés-, que ésa sí está disponible las 24 horas.

Por eso después de una cena pesada es tan habitual que uno tarde en dormirse o se vaya a la cama con el corazón acelerado. Además hay que tener en cuenta los ritmos circadianos: de día el hígado se encarga de asimilar las proteínas que ingerimos pero de noche su función es básicamente drenar bilis. Y es el cortisol el que determina la inversión de trabajo para que de ser un órgano asimilador pase a ser un órgano drenador. Así que si estresamos el hígado todos los días haciéndole asimilar cuando debiera estar drenando, éste no va a eliminar luego adecuadamente los residuos metabólicos, con lo que al final se resiente.

 

[Giraffe]

La clave está en el hígado, porque para que éste pueda llevar adelante la digestión necesita la presencia de una hormona -el cortisol- que sólo se encuentra en sangre cuando hay sol. Y como nuestros hábitos sociales nos hacen cenar cuando éste se ha ocultado -y por tanto, cuando su nivel en sangre es muy pobre- hacer una cena copiosa obliga a una digestión muy pesada. Y si se logra es gracias a que el hígado recibe de la glándula suprarrenal una hormona alternativa, la adrenalina -u hormona del estrés-, que ésa sí está disponible las 24 horas.

Por eso después de una cena pesada es tan habitual que uno tarde en dormirse o se vaya a la cama con el corazón acelerado.

Not sure if I understand the text right. What I read is: The liver needs cortisol for digestion. Cortisol is only in the blood when the sun in shining (= not after sundown), therefore the liver gets adrenaline instead. As a late rich dinner triggers adrenaline, people have trouble falling asleep.


Adrenaline and cortisol are both stress hormons: If andrenaline is raised, cortisol will folllow. Darkness is stress. Stress hormones reach their peak in the early morning

You may want to check Ray Peat's articles for "darkness" and the forum for "cortisol".

http://raypeat.com/articles/

 

[tara]

Hi Xisca,
I don't think I have this as clear as I want in my head yet, either - I'd like to understand it better.
I'm afraid I can't read Spanish, so I don't know what the article you posted said.

Some things I think I know:
Optimal pH is different in different parts of the body.

The body regulates blood pH pretty tightly between 7.35 - 7.45, as long as it has the resources to do so. Problems occur if it gets out of this range. I think this is a standard view, and I am not aware of it being contested.

Different parts of the digestive system are designed to run optimally at different pH - the stomach at very low - acidic - hydrochloric acid, but this is raised in the intestines. A strong metabolism can create strong stomach acids, which is good for digesting many foods. A weaker metabolism may create weaker stomach acid, reducing digestive efficiency.

Kidneys play a role in maintaining pH in a suitable range.
Average (24hr) urine pH according to Peat should be between about 6.3 - 6.7. According to Reams , 6.4 is ideal, and 6.2- 6.8 is compatible with healing. When fighting cancer, better to be near the higher end of this range (Reams). (I think Reams' and Peat's views seem compatible in some areas, but different in some aspects - but I see this as one of Reams' areas of expertise). I think problems can occur if the UpH is far out of this range for too long. UpH can be measured easily and non-invasively. Some people may benefit from more acidifying foods, some people may need more alkalinising. Reams used foods, calcium in various forms, and some vitamins to help people adjust body pH in the direction required.

The body uses alkaline and acid mineral compounds to help maintain balance. Peat recommends a diet that contains significant amounts of alkaline minerals sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium. He favours eating more calcium (alkaline) than phosphorus (acidic), and points out the meat and grains have higher phosphorus than calcium. This is one of the reasons he favours milk - more calcium than phosphorus. Also, metabolic processes creating CO2 and associated reactions can also have profound effects on body pH.
I don't have the effects of salt (NaCl) clear in my mind wrt this, but I think maybe it is more or less neutral, because the acid and base minerals are already reacted/combined with each other. On the other hannd, chlorine is needed to produce hydrochloric acid, and I've read some where that this can sometimes be a benefit of salt.

Reams talked about having optimal body pH to enable absorption and use of nutrients for maintenance and repair. This seems credible to me, but I have not read Peat talking about this particularly.

I think both CO2 and lactic acid can both have acidifying effects outside the cell. I haven't got my head around what goes on inside the cells yet, except that the movement of CO2 out of the c ells affects the inside of the cell - is that a useful alkalinising effect in side the cell?

The body will try to make adaptations to maintain pH balance. I think that hyperventilation (retaining less CO2) may sometimes be a way for the body to raise pH when it is too low. But I'm not sure about this part.
Haidut and gbolduev and others have been discussing CO2, bicarbonate, pH and related subjects on a thread recently. I haven't quite been able to follow it all.

I think there are probably some useful generalisations about foods that tend to have alkalinising or acidifying effects, but there may also be differences between people because our ability to digest and use different foods may vary. Jenn posted something along these lines recently, and I think this was one of Reams' areas of expertise.

I have read advice to try to maintain UpH and/or saliva pH well over 7 in general. I am suspicious of such advice, and think it may be harmful. I think there may be treatments for cancer and maybe some other conditions in which temporary manipulations of pH may be useful. Some microbes are affected by pH. Fungi tend to thrive in alkaline conditions and not in acidic ones. Peat has suggested a short course of Flowers of Sulphur against parasites - I think this is may be related to creating temporary acidic conditions.

Personally, I measured UpH regularly for a while a couple of year ago, and on average got readings on the overly acidic side. I don't seem to feel well if I eat too much acid - that is the main reason I add sodium bicarb to overly acidic commercial OJ and AJ, and I don't have much of a taste for vinegar.

 

[BingDing]

Hi Xisca,

The whole thing is just another health fad, IMHO, and can safely be ignored.

RP has said:

"Dr. Peat: I don’t think it’s the pH that matters, but the actual mineral content. That is, a little lye would give a high pH, but no physiological benefit; buffered salts with a neutral pH could be very beneficial. I wouldn’t want water treated with a system to make it alkaline — it might be harmful in itself, and it would be a financial benefit for crooks."

In the same interview RP refers to "ph cults", which is what I think Reams boils down to. Reams is a scientific and ideological dead end, you can't do anything with it other than examine your navel.

RP, on the other hand, leads forward even if it is sometimes difficult to see. But promoting thyroid, progesterone, and metabolism and demoting estrogen, serotonin, prolactin, and anti-metabolic substances is a coherent, testable thesis.

Worrying about the ph of digested broccoli is like putting a little league team up against the Los Angeles Lakers.

 

[Syncopated]

Weston Price tested the diets of the primitives and found it acidic yet no or little tooth decay, so I agree with Peat, it's the minerals and vitamins that count.

The whole p.h. focus could be to market produce, especially vegetables which I don't eat besides potatoes and carrots. I consider cucumbers to be a fruit.

All the broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, green peas, leafy greens etc. offer little nutrition in my opinion, are expensive if organic and heavily sprayed which you can't wash off. Being able to get spinach or lettuce etc. in the middle of winter is just a marketing ploy.

I like fruits but only if I can peal them and tubers like potatoes cooked and carrots raw. Eating lots of potatoes or carrots is not out of the ordinary considering how decades ago before worldwide produce was traded, people grew huge gardens and stored underground in cool temperature root cellars. I consider these foods to be true blessings and cheap if you have a garden.

 

[Jennifer]

Average (24hr) urine pH according to Peat should be between about 6.3 - 6.7.

Tara, do you happen to have a link to Ray's quote on the ideal range? I have it saved in my notes, but no link to it. I'm trying to locate it for yerrag, but haven't had any luck so far.

 

[tara]

Tara, do you happen to have a link to Ray's quote on the ideal range? I have it saved in my notes, but no link to it. I'm trying to locate it for yerrag, but haven't had any luck so far.

Hi Jennifer,
BingDing referred to this interview in the forum thread about Reams/RBTI:
To Your Health - April 2012
" ... I think the 24-hour urine should be pretty acidic (6.3–6.7 is optimum), from a good protein intake, but the saliva should be just a little under 7, reflecting a good carbon dioxide content. ..."

 

[Jennifer]

Perfect! Thank you so much, @tara, and of course, @BingDing! :)