What would you do with these blood results?

[Callmestar]

Regarding insulin resistance considered it due to low shbg, high triglycerides, low hdl NOT knowing that your test wasn't fasted. Viewing other labs triglycerides in better range. Also now knowing age 32 less and given what else may be going on.

Personally think your thyroid issues are not the cause but are caused by whatever is going on.

Seems like early 1930's literature discusses Insipidus and thyroid coexisting and thyroid treatment exacerbating.

Interesting that when you exercise/sweat you notice some temporary improvement.

Could be you're influencing the body to use other mechanisms skin vs kidney to manage fluid and electrolyte levels swinging (hacking) things the other way temporarily.

I was going to recommend sauna but its sounds like you've been doing that.

Did you notice any temporary improvement with sauna similar to when of you exercise/sweat?

Interesting the short or long-term water restriction as well temporarily kind of hacking comfort levels back a little.

The sugary beverages benefiting is interesting, insulin can help to retain fluids and works in concert with vasopressin to do so.

Though could be a temporary bump for metabolism and body being distracted by digestion/etc.

And you've tried treatment regimens targeting the nephrogenic form of Insipidus?

Thanks.

Yes Sauna use does have a similar effect to exercise/sweat, in that it helps me retain fluids better and feel temporarily a little more hydrated but this is very short lived and reverts back to dehydration. Plus being in a sauna is just about unbearable when already dehydrated. Infrared saunas are more bearable but again any improvement only lasts for maybe a few hours at best.

I think you are probably right on the body using some sort of other mechanism to manage fluid homeostasis when I sweat. This mechanism is likely not in play when I'm not sweating.

The treatments available for nephrogenic Insipidis are somewhat limited in their ability to help the condition but yes I've tried NSAIDs and thiazide diuretics with no success. Supposedly I don't have this condition anyway.

There are two drugs that in terms of increasing urine concentration and retaining fluids sound as though they would be most appropriate for me. One being chlorpropromide and the other being Clofibrate. Both of which I've tried to get and my doc agreed to prescribe on trial basis but they have been discontinued/not available so I couldn't get them.

In the evening I can sometimes retain fluids much better and sometimes urinate nearly as infrequently as somebody normal. Yet I still feel depleted and thirsty. The clear frequent urine always returns the next morning and during the day.

On top of the dryness, I feel completely fatigued and depleted, life limitingly so. Therefore I'm contemplating trying TRT to see if it might spark some life into me, even if I doubt it will have any impact on the dehydration issue.

 

[JohnHafterson]

Thanks.

Yes Sauna use does have a similar effect to exercise/sweat, in that it helps me retain fluids better and feel temporarily a little more hydrated but this is very short lived and reverts back to dehydration. Plus being in a sauna is just about unbearable when already dehydrated. Infrared saunas are more bearable but again any improvement only lasts for maybe a few hours at best.

I think you are probably right on the body using some sort of other mechanism to manage fluid homeostasis when I sweat. This mechanism is likely not in play when I'm not sweating.

The treatments available for nephrogenic Insipidis are somewhat limited in their ability to help the condition but yes I've tried NSAIDs and thiazide diuretics with no success.

There are two drugs that in terms of increasing urine concentration and retaining fluids sound as though they would be most appropriate for me. One being chlorpropromide and the other being Clofibrate. Both of which I've tried to get and my doc agreed to prescribe on trial basis but they have been discontinued/not available so I couldn't get them.

On top of the dryness, I feel completely fatigued and depleted, life limitingly so. Therefore I'm contemplating trying TRT to see if it might spark some life into me, even if I doubt it will have any impact on the dehydration issue.

On both of your recent labs your serum sodium levels are pretty good 140 and 143.

I only mention the above because it seems for some diagnostic evals above 145 and/or above 150 pretty common for central and nephrogenic. Though not always.

Have you considered low protein and low sodium diet?

Merck manual recommends as treatment option including or not including medication.

The manual also has nice list of causes etc.

Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus - Genitourinary Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

This paper also indicates a low protein/salt diet leading to a reduction of 50-100% urine volume in some people:

Role of diet in the management of vasopressin-responsive and -resistant diabetes insipidus - PubMed

Dietary protein and NaCl are the precursors of about 60% of the urinary osmoles (urea and NaCl). This investigation tested the hypothesis that in patients with dieabetes insipidus, intake of dietary protein and salt will directly influence the degree of polyuria. Four subjects with pituitary and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Callmestar]

On both of your recent labs your serum sodium levels are pretty good 140 and 143.

I only mention the above because it seems for some diagnostic evals above 145 and/or above 150 pretty common for central and nephrogenic. Though not always.

Have you considered low protein and low sodium diet?

Merck manual recommends as treatment option including or not including medication.

The manual also has nice list of causes etc.

Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus - Genitourinary Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

Nephrogenic Diabetes Insipidus - Etiology, pathophysiology, symptoms, signs, diagnosis & prognosis from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

This paper also indicates a low protein/salt diet leading to a reduction of 50-100% urine volume in some people:

Role of diet in the management of vasopressin-responsive and -resistant diabetes insipidus - PubMed

Dietary protein and NaCl are the precursors of about 60% of the urinary osmoles (urea and NaCl). This investigation tested the hypothesis that in patients with dieabetes insipidus, intake of dietary protein and salt will directly influence the degree of polyuria. Four subjects with pituitary and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interesting. That's something I haven't tried. I've usually been along the lines of highish protein / electrolytes in an attempt to replenish. Other than when this first started, when I had been doing a lot of fasting and was vegi/vegan.

 

[Cooper]

I've spoken with a hormone replacement clinic here in the UK and they are recommending/offering TRT based on my results. What do you guys think?

I would have rather got things back on track more naturally but I'm getting nowhere and my quality of life has been awful for a few years now.

Take HCG not TRT. 250iu 3x a week. Then do a light PCT with Nolvadex.
You don't want to shrink your balls and shut down your gonads with TRT. Stupid clinics and idiot doctors pffff. Done with this ***t.

 

[Callmestar]

Take HCG not TRT. 250iu 3x a week. Then do a light PCT with Nolvadex.
You don't want to shrink your balls and shut down your gonads with TRT. Stupid clinics and idiot doctors pffff. Done with this ***t.

I was actually asking for HCG only. Two clinics said they won't do just HCG, I found one that will.
Is it a long term solution though?
Are you suggesting I could do HCG and then nolvadex to get my test back up long term? Would it not just drop after coming off the HCG?

 

[Hans]

It's a long list to be honest. For now I've come off most supplements other than some potassium and magnesium started recently as an experiment I'm trying from the advice of someone here. Previously I was taking, thiamine, b complex, Vit d, zinc, digestive enzymes GABA, NAC, Thyroid granular, I mean the list is endless of what I've tried but not one of them has made any difference. I've also taken thyroxine for a few weeks which made no difference, taken T3 on it's own which seems to occasionally give a subtle lift but the majority of the time I feel nothing from it.

At what doses did you use T3 on its own and for how long?

 

[Callmestar]

At what doses did you use T3 on its own and for how long?

I was taking tyronene which I believe is around 8mcg a drop. I was taking 1 drop a day initially, felt nothing (other than the first ever drop I took), then 2 drops a day, then 3 drops a day, separated by a few hours each drop. I did this for about 3 weeks and felt nothing so gave up on it.

I literally feel as though my heart is so depleted it doesn't have the energy to pump at times, evening are often felt with a strange fluttery pressure in and around the best.

What do you think? Take even higher doses of T3? What would your thoughts be on me taking HCG or similar or if not that then TRT?

 

[Hans]

I was taking tyronene which I believe is around 8mcg a drop. I was taking 1 drop a day initially, felt nothing (other than the first ever drop I took), then 2 drops a day, then 3 drops a day, separated by a few hours each drop. I did this for about 3 weeks and felt nothing so gave up on it.

I literally feel as though my heart is so depleted it doesn't have the energy to pump at times, evening are often felt with a strange fluttery pressure in and around the best.

What do you think? Take even higher doses of T3? What would your thoughts be on me taking HCG or similar or if not that then TRT?

I'd try TRT and HCG first, but keep an eye on your E levels.
Yeah I would increase the T3 dose. Maybe 2 drops every 3-4 hours. Then 3 drops every 3-4 hours if needed. Make sure you eat enough though.

 

[youngsinatra]

Your symptoms match up with hypercalcemia and indeed your serum calcium is elevated.

 

[Callmestar]

I'd try TRT and HCG first, but keep an eye on your E levels.
Yeah I would increase the T3 dose. Maybe 2 drops every 3-4 hours. Then 3 drops every 3-4 hours if needed. Make sure you eat enough though.

How much of a risk is there to fertility on TRT and HCG? As I would hope to have a child in the next few years if I can ever get healthy!

There's no problem taking massive T3 doses then? I suppose I'd likely be taking them for life if it improves my symptoms?

 

[Hans]

How much of a risk is there to fertility on TRT and HCG? As I would hope to have a child in the next few years if I can ever get healthy!

There's no problem taking massive T3 doses then? I suppose I'd likely be taking them for life if it improves my symptoms?

The HCG will help prevent shut down, so you should be good.
That's not really massive doses of T3. Take what you need to improve your symptoms. Peat mentioned a woman that had to take 15 grains of thyroid to feel normal. I think over time she was able to reduce it to 5 grains or something like that.

 

[Callmestar]

Your symptoms match up with hypercalcemia and indeed your serum calcium is elevated.

I'm very slightly out of range yes, although all previous blood tests have been in range re Calcium Do you think even those levels it could be causing my symptoms? If so, wondering what the best way to tackle that naturally.

 

[youngsinatra]

I'm very slightly out of range yes, although all previous blood tests have been in range re Calcium Do you think even those levels it could be causing my symptoms? If so, wondering what the best way to tackle that naturally.

Oh, I didn‘t know that calcium was normal on the previous blood tests. Maybe get another one done in the future with serum calcium, PTH and prolactin.

Symptoms of hypercalcemia include:
- More frequent urination and thirst
- Fatigue, bone pain, headaches
- Nausea, vomiting, constipation, decrease in appetite
- Forgetfulness
- Lethargy, depression, memory loss or irritability
- Muscle aches, weakness, cramping and/or twitches

I‘d try some magnesium supplementation (glycinate) and/or a good dose of K2 and see if it helps with your symptoms.

 

[Callmestar]

The HCG will help prevent shut down, so you should be good.
That's not really massive doses of T3. Take what you need to improve your symptoms. Peat mentioned a woman that had to take 15 grains of thyroid to feel normal. I think over time she was able to reduce it to 5 grains or something like that.

Thanks. I've been taking 2 drops of Tyronene every few hours as suggested since yesterday morning. I can't say I'm bursting with energy and wellbeing but there's certainly is a subtle improvement. I feel slightly less fatigued, generally a little better in terms of overall wellbeing. If 100% is ideal / optimal health and energy, and my current normal state is about 10%, I'd say that T3 has lifted me to 25%.

Do you think it's worth waiting before starting HCG/TRT. Is there any chance the increase in thyroid if I stick with it, might bring up the testosterone?

 

[Hans]

Thanks. I've been taking 2 drops of Tyronene every few hours as suggested since yesterday morning. I can't say I'm bursting with energy and wellbeing but there's certainly is a subtle improvement. I feel slightly less fatigued, generally a little better in terms of overall wellbeing. If 100% is ideal / optimal health and energy, and my current normal state is about 10%, I'd say that T3 has lifted me to 25%.

Do you think it's worth waiting before starting HCG/TRT. Is there any chance the increase in thyroid if I stick with it, might bring up the testosterone?

Yes, thyroid should improve steroidogenesis since it promotes the conversion of cholesterol into pregnenolone.
Peat mentioned that it can take 3-4 months to fix hypothyroidism, so it's important to stick with the protocol and not just to too large doses right away.

 

[Callmestar]

Yes, thyroid should improve steroidogenesis since it promotes the conversion of cholesterol into pregnenolone.
Peat mentioned that it can take 3-4 months to fix hypothyroidism, so it's important to stick with the protocol and not just to too large doses right away.

Thanks. Unfortunately, it seems to be the same strange pattern with the T3 as last time I took it, and now I remember why I stopped. I get some mild positive effects from it after first dose and on the first day. But after this, it seems to do nothing at all.
Yesterday I felt some subtle positive effects on 2 drops every few hours. Today I feel absolutely nothing from it and feel as crap as usual from the same 2 drops every few hours?

 

[Callmestar]

Heart rate is 82bpm resting which is very high for me. My typical is around 50bpm. Maybe I've taken too much t3. Although despite the increased heart rate I feel utterly fatigued and wiped out, I feel horrible, ill, anxious, groggy. At this point debating going to the hospital.

 

[Hans]

Heart rate is 82bpm resting which is very high for me. My typical is around 50bpm. Maybe I've taken too much t3. Although despite the increased heart rate I feel utterly fatigued and wiped out, I feel horrible, ill, anxious, groggy. At this point debating going to the hospital.

Perhaps you can add in B1. T3 promotes energy production, so if you don't have enough cofactors, such as B1 and magnesium, then the glucose will go to lactate and you'll feel bad.

 

[Hans]

Thanks. Unfortunately, it seems to be the same strange pattern with the T3 as last time I took it, and now I remember why I stopped. I get some mild positive effects from it after first dose and on the first day. But after this, it seems to do nothing at all.
Yesterday I felt some subtle positive effects on 2 drops every few hours. Today I feel absolutely nothing from it and feel as crap as usual from the same 2 drops every few hours?

Not a double post, just repeating the importance. Add in some B1, magnesium and maybe some aspirin, but keep going with the T3. Optimal thyroid hormones are absolutely foundational.