What Really Matters To Women

[Nebula]

If you're just looking for casual sexual relationships then obviously all you need is trendy good looks, some trappings of higher wealth, and a fun personality.

If you're looking for a long term relationship then women need you to be a reliable source of physical, emotional, and spiritual comfort and intimacy. Women can get the thrill of a new relationship or sex partner if they really want it, but for a long term relationship they need a man who is strongly dedicated to a lifetime of constantly working towards goals in all the meaningful areas of life, including continually finding new ways to strengthen their relationship.

I think most men should be thinking about building and belonging to positive brotherhoods before attempting to have a long term relationship. Women are very perceptive of who a man's friends are. A man with no or few friends is a major red flag to most women. While a man who is respected by a strong network of men dedicated to uplifting each other to having successful lives is something that helps women to trust a man much easier to commit to a long term relationship.

None of this is particularly natural. Its a cultural model that civilizations stumbled on as a way to stabilize society and relationships between men and women to form stable pair bonds and families. Naturally humans are usually hypergamous and polygynists. But letting those tendencies rule social norms doesn't make for a very stable society and life though.

 

[Jib]

If you really want to know what women want, it's a man being able to answer this question when asked of him: "What do YOU want?"

 

[golder]

If you really want to know what women want, it's a man being able to answer this question when asked of him: "What do YOU want?"

Very great post. I think I know the crux of why that is, but I’d really like to hear you expand on that, just to hear your personal take on it.

 

[lvysaur]

I doubt it. Japan is 10 years “ahead” of the West. Shudder.

no it's not

Much of the west is at or below Japanese fertility rates. If you discount immigration, literally the entire west AND east europe is.

I cannot tell you how many times I see an attractive woman with a sub par looking dude, even effeminate, and I think to myself .... there’s no way he is tearing her down. LOL. Who the hell knows why we see mismatches on the surface.

I cannot tell you how many times I see an attractive woman with a sub par looking dude, even effeminate, and I think to myself .... there’s no way he is tearing her down. LOL. Who the hell knows why we see mismatches on the surface.

Progesterone promotes homosexual behavior. Probably a connection?

However, my unscientific observations are that highly feminine women are more likely to date to "effeminate" men, while andro-prog women date more DHT-ish men.

 

[baccheion]

no it's not

Much of the west is at or below Japanese fertility rates. If you discount immigration, literally the entire west AND east europe is.

I cannot tell you how many times I see an attractive woman with a sub par looking dude, even effeminate, and I think to myself .... there’s no way he is tearing her down. LOL. Who the hell knows why we see mismatches on the surface.


Progesterone promotes homosexual behavior. Probably a connection?

However, my unscientific observations are that highly feminine women are more likely to date to "effeminate" men, while andro-prog women date more DHT-ish men.

Estrogen is attracted to testosterone and progesterone to provider males (low T + low E). Masculinity/Testosterone is mainly preferred during ovulation. After, when the body assumes it's pregnant, women start looking for a provider male to take care of the child.

Some have said birth control biases women toward effeminate males.

 

[Jib]

Very great post. I think I know the crux of why that is, but I’d really like to hear you expand on that, just to hear your personal take on it.

Men that just go for what they want are generally seen as attractive and dominant. This also applies to the bedroom. Women love feeling hot/sexy and desired, and seeing a guy that's really into it and not afraid or timid at all about having sex. Or telling her what to do, or being rough with her. They're not delicate flowers that'll break, and obviously, this is gonna be a bit different for every girl, but is easy enough to calibrate to in the moment. But if a girl is really turned on, you shouldn't have any reservations about going primal on them. They love it. Sex is very important. Passionate, animalistic sex.

Then I hear stories from buddies like, "Yeah, I HATE doing this, but I have to, or she won't do this or that," like....I cannot imagine living like that, and I don't want to. No, no, no. I cringe when I hear stuff like this. Only do what you want, and you'll always be 100% enthusiastic about it, whatever it is. I can't remember a single time I ever "did a favor" for a girl. I've held them down and had my way with them, though, and enjoyed it every single time.

See the difference? The secret is that whatever it is, you have to want to do it. If you don't want to, then don't. Simple.

As for dorky/whatever guys with smokin hot girls: there are a ton of guys like this having sex regularly. The difference is the conditions surrounding it. All it takes is one time of having "desire sex" where a girl looks like she's going into an altered state of consciousness when you're going at it, and then you know what it's all about. There is sex, and then there's sex.

Layman's terms: Big difference between unsolicited, passionate, spontaneous animalistic sex out of pure desire, and obligation sex. I personally cannot imagine having "obligation sex," but this is a reality for a lot of folks out there.

Women can and do dole out sex impassionately if it serves them in one way or another, emotionally or financially or for whatever other mundane reason, like just doing it out of habit and comfort. Doesn't mean they're not fantasizing about getting with some other higher value guy, or aren't resentful of the current guy for not picking up on how sexually frustrated/unhappy she is.

Anyway, all that's nonsense. It all comes back to: what do YOU want? Having high standards for yourself. For example, instead of thinking "what do women want," think, "what kind of women do I want?"

Women are so used to getting approached by guys they have no interest in, they have no qualms about it. They know what kind of guys they like, or what kind of behavior they like from guys, and have no problem turning guys down that don't make the cut.

That's how men have to be too. Think in abundance, not lack, and instead of focusing on feeling lonely/needy/insecure, start thinking about your standards, and what kind of girl (or girls) you'd like to have in your life. And it goes far beyond how "hot" they are to you. When you start thinking like that, you automatically start building confidence.

Women are much more prone to chasing a guy that is hard to get, that looks like he doesn't need them. The best way to do this is to actually be that guy, not to try to be that guy because you think it'll get you women. You do this by genuinely prioritizing yourself. Every single day.

Not much room for approval seeking, neediness, loneliness, or insecurity when your mind is buzzing with thoughts about "What do I want to do today? What do I want to do tomorrow? Who do I want to spend my time with today? Who do I want to spend my time with tomorrow?"

Not that I'm Casanova, of course.

 

[LUH 3417]

Men that just go for what they want are generally seen as attractive and dominant. This also applies to the bedroom. Women love feeling hot/sexy and desired, and seeing a guy that's really into it and not afraid or timid at all about having sex. Or telling her what to do, or being rough with her. They're not delicate flowers that'll break, and obviously, this is gonna be a bit different for every girl, but is easy enough to calibrate to in the moment. But if a girl is really turned on, you shouldn't have any reservations about going primal on them. They love it. Sex is very important. Passionate, animalistic sex.

Then I hear stories from buddies like, "Yeah, I HATE doing this, but I have to, or she won't do this or that," like....I cannot imagine living like that, and I don't want to. No, no, no. I cringe when I hear stuff like this. Only do what you want, and you'll always be 100% enthusiastic about it, whatever it is. I can't remember a single time I ever "did a favor" for a girl. I've held them down and had my way with them, though, and enjoyed it every single time.

See the difference? The secret is that whatever it is, you have to want to do it. If you don't want to, then don't. Simple.

As for dorky/whatever guys with smokin hot girls: there are a ton of guys like this having sex regularly. The difference is the conditions surrounding it. All it takes is one time of having "desire sex" where a girl looks like she's going into an altered state of consciousness when you're going at it, and then you know what it's all about. There is sex, and then there's sex.

Layman's terms: Big difference between unsolicited, passionate, spontaneous animalistic sex out of pure desire, and obligation sex. I personally cannot imagine having "obligation sex," but this is a reality for a lot of folks out there.

Women can and do dole out sex impassionately if it serves them in one way or another, emotionally or financially or for whatever other mundane reason, like just doing it out of habit and comfort. Doesn't mean they're not fantasizing about getting with some other higher value guy, or aren't resentful of the current guy for not picking up on how sexually frustrated/unhappy she is.

Anyway, all that's nonsense. It all comes back to: what do YOU want? Having high standards for yourself. For example, instead of thinking "what do women want," think, "what kind of women do I want?"

Women are so used to getting approached by guys they have no interest in, they have no qualms about it. They know what kind of guys they like, or what kind of behavior they like from guys, and have no problem turning guys down that don't make the cut.

That's how men have to be too. Think in abundance, not lack, and instead of focusing on feeling lonely/needy/insecure, start thinking about your standards, and what kind of girl (or girls) you'd like to have in your life. And it goes far beyond how "hot" they are to you. When you start thinking like that, you automatically start building confidence.

Women are much more prone to chasing a guy that is hard to get, that looks like he doesn't need them. The best way to do this is to actually be that guy, not to try to be that guy because you think it'll get you women. You do this by genuinely prioritizing yourself. Every single day.

Not much room for approval seeking, neediness, loneliness, or insecurity when your mind is buzzing with thoughts about "What do I want to do today? What do I want to do tomorrow? Who do I want to spend my time with today? Who do I want to spend my time with tomorrow?"

Not that I'm Casanova, of course.

Maybe the “altered state of consciousness” clicks in when the women becomes conscious of her partaking in the simulation of a rape scene.

 

[baccheion]

Maybe the “altered state of consciousness” clicks in when the women becomes conscious of her partaking in the simulation of a rape scene.

Many women have rape fantasies.

Again, I say it's all about higher testosterone (+ DHT).

Healthy glow and tongue action were shown to be the most important attractors. A part of health is normalized insulin, cortisol, thyroid/HPTA/metabolism, estrogen, etc (ie, testosterone). Then there's fitness, shoulders and height, dressing, grooming, etc.

The same applies to women trying to be more attractive to men, especially as normalization would more affect progesterone and estrogen.

 

[LUH 3417]

Many women have rape fantasies.

Again, I say it's all about higher testosterone (+ DHT).

Healthy glow and tongue action were shown to be the most important attractors. A part of health is normalized insulin, cortisol, thyroid/HPTA/metabolism, estrogen, etc (ie, testosterone). Then there's fitness, shoulders and height, dressing, grooming, etc.

The same applies to women trying to be more attractive to men, especially as normalization would more affect progesterone and estrogen.

Many pedophiles have fantasies of sleeping with children. What’s your point?

 

[baccheion]

Many pedophiles have fantasies of sleeping with children. What’s your point?

Women also tend to like being dominated and confuse fear with arousal. There can be many layers to working her over each night. Slow start; animalistic finish.

Based on OkCupid answers, 62% of women enjoy rough sex: If You're A Woman Who LOVES Rough Sex, Turns Out Your Are FAR From Alone.

 

[LUH 3417]

Women also tend to like being dominated and confuse fear with arousal. There can be many layers to working her over each night. Slow start; animalistic finish.

Maybe, maybe not. Not a very novel perspective either way.

 

[Luann]

Ummmm...hi.

I think that maybe I'm not supposed to be a part of this conversation

But it happens to be in a place I can readily access and among a group of people I identify with and represent in a way.

Without naming specifics, I'm really dissatisfied with some misunderstandings I'm looking at. It's every person's right to be incorrect once in a while but if your speech is free, so is mine - and I'm a little grossed out by a few of the things that are said.

I hope the men promoting these statements will take a closer look a functioning relationships, because fear and dominance and having your way are not the support beams except in troubled cases.

 

[baccheion]

Ummmm...hi.

I think that maybe I'm not supposed to be a part of this conversation

But it happens to be in a place I can readily access and among a group of people I identify with and represent in a way.

Without naming specifics, I'm really dissatisfied with some misunderstandings I'm looking at. It's every person's right to be incorrect once in a while but if your speech is free, so is mine - and I'm a little grossed out by a few of the things that are said.

I hope the men promoting these statements will take a closer look a functioning relationships, because fear and dominance and having your way are not the support beams except in troubled cases.

Maybe I missed some extremes stated, but the basic idea seems to be that women prefer assertive males. Assertive, confident, testosterone (/DHT) at least in the top half of the range, etc.

Women confusing fear and arousal is something from psychology 101. And domination may be in a sexual sense, but also in general. For some/many women.

 

[Luann]

Yeah, and I admire your assertiveness in not being offended by my comment. (I had the confidence to speak up knowing you could handle it :) )

You're probably right about the brain activity, I'm gonna argue that fear is still not something women look for, even subconsciously in relationships. At least not a significant factor. Or maybe you're not talking about relationships. I assumed you were because "relationship" type women are more consistent in what they want and (in my eyes) a natural topic of this thread

 

[baccheion]

Yeah, and I admire your assertiveness in not being offended by my comment. (I had the confidence to speak up knowing you could handle it :) )

You're probably right about the brain activity, I'm gonna argue that fear is still not something women look for, even subconsciously in relationships. At least not a significant factor. Or maybe you're not talking about relationships. I assumed you were because "relationship" type women are more consistent in what they want and (in my eyes) a natural topic of this thread

I said fear is confused with arousal. For example, women could think they're actually aroused when in a situation that induces fear.

 

[Luann]

i see, and I'm not arguing with you, just - respectfully -wondering the significance of that fact in everyday life.

My presence here is better if limited to a couple of replies, I hope that this is a helpful conversation for you guys and am grateful for the manly habit of trying to figure out what makes the world tick. It's brought so much to society

 

[LUH 3417]

Maybe I missed some extremes stated, but the basic idea seems to be that women prefer assertive males. Assertive, confident, testosterone (/DHT) at least in the top half of the range, etc.

Women confusing fear and arousal is something from psychology 101. And domination may be in a sexual sense, but also in general. For some/many women.

You could also say that all diseases being reduced to sexual problems is something from psychology 101. Women’s libido and desire have been subjected to confusion and misrepresentation for some time now. I think it’s safe to say what women want varies from woman to woman, and what men want varies from man to man. As a woman I can attest to the heightened sense of pleasure that comes out of having sex with someone you love and feeling like your chest and body are opening towards another body. I think sex is about opening, rather than restraining, but as I said to each his or her own.

 

[baccheion]

You could also say that all diseases being reduced to sexual problems is something from psychology 101. Women’s libido and desire have been subjected to confusion and misrepresentation for some time now. I think it’s safe to say what women want varies from woman to woman, and what men want varies from man to man. As a woman I can attest to the heightened sense of pleasure that comes out of having sex with someone you love and feeling like your chest and body are opening towards another body. I think sex is about opening, rather than restraining, but as I said to each his or her own.

Women liking sex with someone they love: sure. What's your point?

 

[LUH 3417]

Women liking sex with someone they love: sure. What's your point?

My point is that love and fear, although not incompatible, are clearly two different experiences

 

[baccheion]

My point is that love and fear, although not incompatible, are clearly two different experiences

Neurologically, they are similar. For example, both involve norepinephrine.

Norepinephrine release happens, for example, when someone walks on a mountain path with no railing. Fear. Norepinephrine increases alertness, recall, vigilance, rumination, "that feeling in your stomach", etc. Outside the context of a dangerous situation, the feeling in one's stomach is almost pleasurable.

When women (and males) experience love or attraction, PEA is released. PEA increases norepinephrine and other neurotransmitters. It's a similar feeling, especially in the stomach, though the context is different.