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What Is Transfat-Free PUFA Oils That Are Still Liquid At Room Temp?

tankasnowgod

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Thanks for the clarification.

I was scratching my head once why the refined coconut oil smokes when I deep fry. And the PUFA oils don't. And yes, as you said, it's because CO has plenty of SCFAs and MCTs.

I didn't know how hard it is to find fully hydrogenated coconut oil anywhere retail. Even in the Philippines, a major coconut oIL producer. I had to call up an oils manufacturer, and be referred to an oils distributor, which only sells in tubs to food processors.

The only way I could buy is I get the minimum quantity of a 40kg tub. Yikes! Now, I have to call up a friend whose family processes copra to oil and see if I can buy a small quantity.

But it's good to know that some food processors use fully hydrogenated coconut oil. What's interesting is that I don't ever see any product labeled where coconut oil is listed as an ingredient.

I suspect that many pork rinds, or chicharon, are made deep fried in FHCO. But no one's telling, because no one's buying because everyone believes AHA's lies.

I use the FHCO (92 Degree) for deep frying, and it's awesome. Much higher smoke point than regular or refined coconut oil. And far, far better than those garbage PUFA oils.
 

yerrag

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It's good we're not buying into the imagery of a white blob of oil clogging up our arteries. That would keep us from using It. And spare us the ignominy of being roadkill in a hospital.
 

lvysaur

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Looking back, I still wonder how those cooking oils (presumably corn, soya, and canola oil) came to be labelled as transfat-free
It's like labeling milk "gluten free"

The only sources of transfats are artificially hydrogenated oils and ruminant fats.
 

yerrag

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It's like labeling milk "gluten free"

The only sources of transfats are artificially hydrogenated oils and ruminant fats.
So am I to believe that soya, corn, and canola oil sold as cooking oils can withstand deep frying temps without ever undergoing any hydrogenation process?
 

lvysaur

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So am I to believe that soya, corn, and canola oil sold as cooking oils can withstand deep frying temps without ever undergoing any hydrogenation process?
I don't know about that. But the oils themselves are transfat free. I don't know what the rate of transfat formation is in cooked food.
 

yerrag

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I don't know about that. But the oils themselves are transfat free. I don't know what the rate of transfat formation is in cooked food.
Trans fats are partially hydrogenated oils. So if they're not, am I mistaken to think that they have to be either fully unsaturated or fully hydrogenated? Anything in between has to be transfats? I'm sure I'm wrong thinking this way somehow.
 

yerrag

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shepherdgirl

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Yes, if they make the serving size portion so small they can get away with it. As in Pam oil spray. But is this the case here?
I don't know, but my feeling is that it is largely the case. It seems unlikely that so many oils and snacks were reformulated. Half a gram of trans fat is quite a lot.
Maybe some snacks stopped using partially hydrogenated oils and started using more liquid oils.
 

yerrag

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I don't know, but my feeling is that it is largely the case. It seems unlikely that so many oils and snacks were reformulated. Half a gram of trans fat is quite a lot.
Maybe some snacks stopped using partially hydrogenated oils and started using more liquid oils.
I doubt snacks would use liquid oils. There's a dramatic change in texture and mouth feel. The product would be shunned.

I made fries with fully hydrogenated coconut oil and it tastes so much better than refined coconut oil. Night and day.
 

Peat Tong

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Trans fats are partially hydrogenated oils. So if they're not, am I mistaken to think that they have to be either fully unsaturated or fully hydrogenated? Anything in between has to be transfats? I'm sure I'm wrong thinking this way somehow.
. Like tara said, partially hydrogenated oils contain trans fats. The trans fatty acids are between unsaturated and saturated. Fully hydrogenated oil contains no trans fats.
 

Peat Tong

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but if you take a little fully hydrogenated oil and mix it into the high-PUFA vegetable oil, you get the same mix of oils, but 0 trans fat!
 

yerrag

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. Like tara said, partially hydrogenated oils contain trans fats. The trans fatty acids are between unsaturated and saturated. Fully hydrogenated oil contains no trans fats.

VCO contains both SFAs and PUFAs, at about 96:4 ratio. I know this isn't considered trans-fats because the SFA portion is 100% SFA, while the PUFA portion is 100% PUFA. It is somehow like a blend, with none of the portions containing trans-fats. Once the VCO is fully hydrogenated, the PUFA portion becomes fully saturated, and at this point it is 100% SFA. Again there is no trans-fats. But if the VCO were not processed to fully hydrogenate the oil, some of the PUFAs will not be fully hydrogenated, and what results is trans-fats, even if you're talking about coconut oil, right? This oil could be what we call refined coconut oil.

But still, refined coconut oil still has less PUFAs, and so it is still better than VCO. Am I right in saying this?

As an aside, VCO is extracted from coconut milk. Coconut milk has a PUFA portion as well, but the difference is that coconut milk has Vitamin E, so whatever PUFA you get from coconut milk, you're still getting the protection of vitamin E. So, in this way, coconut milk is way better than VCO.

But what about soya oil, corn oil, and canola oil? They are 100% PUFA to start with. They can't be sold as is, as they are reactive with oxygen in the atmosphere and because of this, they can easily get rancid. So, they have to be processed to convert some or all of the PUFAs to SFAs by hydrogenation. What I don't know is if the process is to fully hydrogenate these oils or to partially hydrogenate them. If they say there is no trans-fats, then they have to be either in their unmodified state - with 100% PUFAs (and subject to becoming rancid easily), or they have to be fully hydrogenated. Since we know it's impossible to ship at the virgin state of 100% PUFA, then the only thing we can say about the corn, soya, and canola oils sold is that they are fully hydrogenated - unless they are lying.

The thing is, wouldn't these oils be solid at room temperature when they're fully hydrogenated? Since they're not, would they still be really transfat-free? I think not.
 

Peat Tong

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VCO is pressed to make refined coconut oil. There is no change in saturation.
Refined coconut oil can then be hydrogenated to make it more saturated.

Vegetable oils are not 100% PUFA. They just have a much higher PUFA content than coconut oil.

"Trans fat" is one of the types of fatty acid that can comprise a fat.
"Trans fat" does not mean a fat that is a mixture of hydrogenated and polyunsaturated fatty acids.
So if you fully hydrogenate the unsaturated fatty acids there will be no trans fatty acids, and the fat will be solid.
You then heat the solid fat and mix it with the liquid vegetable oil to get 0 trans fat vegetable oil.
 

yerrag

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VCO is pressed to make refined coconut oil. There is no change in saturation.
No. That's why you call something refined. It's not simply pressed. Google it.
Vegetable oils are not 100% PUFA. They just have a much higher PUFA content than coconut oil.
On point with it being not 100% PUFA. But it's not "just" having a much higher PUFA content. It's being magnitudes higher in PUFA content.
"Trans fat" is one of the types of fatty acid that can comprise a fat.
This is a banal response.
"Trans fat" does not mean a fat that is a mixture of hydrogenated and polyunsaturated fatty acids.
Thanks for repeating what I said.
So if you fully hydrogenate the unsaturated fatty acids there will be no trans fatty acids, and the fat will be solid.
In agreement on this.
You then heat the solid fat and mix it with the liquid vegetable oil to get 0 trans fat vegetable oil.
So transfat-free then means mixing a virgin PUFA- laden oil with a fully hydrogenated oil? Okay, it's transfat-free but not PUFA- free, which then means all these transfat-free oils are actually more harmful.
 

Peat Tong

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google says "Refined, bleached, and deodorized (RBD) oil is usually made from copra, dried coconut kernel, which is pressed in a heated hydraulic press to extract the oil. ... Unlike virgin coconut oil, refined coconut oil has no coconut taste or aroma."

It's one thing trans-fat free could mean. I don't know what the industry does.

According to Peat, yes, those vegetable oils labeled as trans-fat free are more harmful than fully hydrogenated oil. The high PUFA was always the problem.
 

yerrag

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google says "Refined, bleached, and deodorized (RBD) oil is usually made from copra, dried coconut kernel, which is pressed in a heated hydraulic press to extract the oil. ... Unlike virgin coconut oil, refined coconut oil has no coconut taste or aroma."

It's one thing trans-fat free could mean. I don't know what the industry does.

According to Peat, yes, those vegetable oils labeled as trans-fat free are more harmful than fully hydrogenated oil. The high PUFA was always the problem.

By that definition, RBD coconut oil doesn't seem intended to be hydrogenated. The oil is liquid until around 25 C. So maybe it doesn't contain transfats.

Funny how transfat-free soy, corn, and canola oil are actually worse, but is perceived as being healthful.
 

lvysaur

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Refined coconut oil is just virgin coconut oil with the flavor taken out. There is no difference between the two other than flavor compounds and maybe phytochemicals.

Hydrogenated means the fat has hydrogen added to it. If the process is not perfect, you get some PUFAs that change shape and orientation, but are not hydrogenated, these are trans fats.
 

yerrag

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Refined coconut oil is just virgin coconut oil with the flavor taken out. There is no difference between the two other than flavor compounds and maybe phytochemicals.

Hydrogenated means the fat has hydrogen added to it. If the process is not perfect, you get some PUFAs that change shape and orientation, but are not hydrogenated, these are trans fats.
Thanks. Most often, the reason for turning oils into partially hydrogenated fats is to be get properties in the fat that a fully hydrogenated oil can't provide. The properties have much to do with how the fat contributes to the texture of the product that uses it. If using a fully hydrogenated fat makes the product too firm or hard, replacing it with a trans-fat makes it softer.

An example is the Hostess Twinkies, which I used to love to eat (I still long for it). For that reason, Hostess Twinkies are still made using trans-fats. It won't be a Twinkie without the partially hydrogenated fats. I wonder though, how it would taste were it made with fully hydrogenated fats. Speaking of fully hydrogenated, when I made french fries using fully hydrogenated coconut oil (FHCOI), it tasted so good it puts to shame Mac fries. If only tallow were put back to use to make Mac fries, Mac fries would be competitive with my homemade fries.

As I was looking for FHCO, I went to a bakery supply store. There were plenty of solid fats, but I couldn't find one that's FHCO. Funny about the labeling, the store clerks and manager just didn't know the solid fats were made of. It seems none of their customers ever asked them. I finally found one with an informative label, and it was made from palm oil. Funny thing though, BHT was added as an antioxidant. I wondered why. The FHCO didn't need it. What do you guys think? Is it because the palm fat is partially hydrogenated?
 

shepherdgirl

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I doubt snacks would use liquid oils. There's a dramatic change in texture and mouth feel. The product would be shunned.
That's true in many cases. This is probably why frosting still has lots of trans fat. I was thinking of something like cakes, where the oil is not as noticeable.
 

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