What is going wrong if I'm unable to tolerate foods containing even small amounts of Vitamin A?

feedandseed

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I have suffered from skin problems my whole life, and I finally narrowed down the triggers to certain allergens, (soy, gluten) but also a mysterious *other* trigger. I've just recently finally put 2 and 2 together and realized that my main trigger is foods containing either retinol/retinoids OR beta carotene. Retinoids trigger the reaction quickly while beta carotene triggers the reaction more slowly, which is in line with my understanding of how these foods are metabolized.

To describe the reaction, what I experience is "puffiness" in my skin and around my eyes (as if I'm either retaining more water intracellularly, or there is an increase in collagen; I'm not sure) followed by redness (rosacea-like) and then followed by aggressive and somewhat painful skin peeling. I realize that vitamin A is known to cause exfoliation anyway, but I'm not consuming massive supplemental amounts. When I am exposed to it, it's usually from carrots or some other kind of fruit/vegetable. I most certainly do not eat more than the average person.

I've considered this: https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/study-vitamin-a-theory-of-vaccine-injury.39786/ because I was sadly vaccinated with all the usual shots as a child and suffered greatly as a result. There is one large persistent skin lesion I have had inside of my elbow since age 12, shortly after I received some common vaccination. (I don't recall which but I could find out if anyone is curious) I fell incredibly ill with a >100 fever the afternoon after I received the shot. My health declined considerably in the years following.
Also of note is that I used to be prescribed massive doses of vitamin A by a quack "naturopath," (also fish oil, PUFA supplements, various estrogenic herbal bull****) and suffered through the peeling and eczema thinking it was some kind of candida nonsense. When I stopped I felt better. I've considered the possibility that this may have exacerbated a liver issue with retinoid processing/clearance.
Per these, some kind of liver damage or enzymatic issue impairing my clearance or metabolism of vitamin A is my main hypothesis. I experience no deficiency symptoms of any kind when I avoid vitamin A entirely, leading me to believe it is built up in my tissue already.

I recently started using iodized salt per recommendation and I expected this to improve my tolerance of vitamin A but I have had a carrot-mediated reaction since introducing the iodine and it's hard to say if the severity was lessened.

One other thing I've considered is the possibility of Vitamin D deficiency (though I get enough sun, I think) or possibly dysfunction at the level of the vitamin D receptor? Either caused by some low-grade infection interfering or maybe even upregulated androgen receptors? (Pre-peat I used a lot of carnitine for this express purpose)

With all that said, it is very possible that I am missing something more obvious or fundamental. (I was iodine deficient for months without ever considering the possibility. Lol)

Any input greatly appreciated :)
 

valzim

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I am newly on board with avoiding vitamin A and carotenoids. I was on keto type diet for 3-4 years, which included high vitamin A foods like sweet potato, butter, liver, cod liver oil, salmon, etc. I too started dealing with eczema, low testosterone, low energy. That diet was killing me. Thank God I found Georgie Dinkov and Ray Peat. My energy and testosterone started getting better with adding carbs and sugar. But eczema still a problem. Milk has retinol and Orange juice has carotenoids. High vitamin A. So I’m figuring that out.
Have to read Grant Genereau’s book “Extinguishing the Fires of Hell”. I think that’s the name. He chronicles his journey from eczema to brain fog to no energy and losing his job. He started eating only beef, beans and rice. He made a complete reversal.
Also search Garrett Smith. He’s helping people go low vitamin A and balance minerals. In the 3 months of me going low vitamin A, my energy and mood are wonderful. I feel my testosterone is increasing. I’m 57 and morning wood is back big time. Eczema is 90% better but if I’m out and can’t control exactly what I eat, sometimes I get a little relapse and my eczema flares up a bit.
I know Georgie says vitamin A is important but I’m starting to think he’s wrong. I know he’s a genius but I still say he’s wrong. I know I’m on the right path. Grant has been zero or extremely low vitamin a for 10 years. On his blood test, his vitamin A is 2-3, where they say under 30 is deficiency. He says his skin and eyesite are always getting better and better.
So search Grant Genereau and Garret smith and low vitamin A. I plan to continue low vitamin A for life. 3 months made huge difference, let’s see what 3 years does.
 

Jennifer

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@feedandseed, could you be deficient in vitamin E? I came across this quote today while looking through the Ray Peat Email Advice Depository thread:

“Me: I was surprised to hear that depression can be an allergic symptom.
I'm used to getting an itchy feeling on my skin from some supplements
and foods, but this is the first supplement I've gotten this sort of
reaction from. I still have dandruff and pimples, so I don't think I'm
getting too much vitamin A, especially since I only used one drop of
the vitamin. Can too much vitamin A lead to acne and dandruff too?

RP: Yes, but I've never heard of it with less than 50,000 units a day. An extreme vitamin E deficiency predisposed to A toxicity.”

 

ALS

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This helped me - My eBooks

D displaces A, btw.

I took A on a RTW trip daily (can't recall why) and my skin began cracking and bleeding.
 

gd81

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if vitamin A in foods is a problem, you are probably hypothyroid

have you checked your pulse and temperature?
 

valzim

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if vitamin A in foods is a problem, you are probably hypothyroid

have you checked your pulse and temperature?
Or does the Vitamin A poisoning come first which causes hypothyroid.

Both Grant and Garret Smith discuss how Vitamin A attacks the epithelial cells in the body. If attacking these cells in the skin, then eczema. The body also has epithelial cells in the pancreas, the thyroid, the arteries and heart, and brain. So vitamin A poisoning could be causing diabetes, hypothyroidism, heart disease, and Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

To just say "if vitamin a is a problem, you are probably hypothyroid" is simplistic. How do people get to be hypothyroid? Maybe vitamin A was always toxic but body could deal with it better. But now with all the other poisons and toxins in our environment, the body gets too overwhelmed. It's like saying, if you have a problem with vitamin A, you are probably have Alzheimer's. Let's try to find the root cause. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but many people in Garret's group go on a low vitamin A diet and can get off the thyroid hormone pills. Maybe Ray Peat could never get off the thyroid hormones because he drank so much milk and orange juice. Same with Danny Roddy.

But really... wouldn't it be better to not need the thyroid pills.
 

crazypatriot

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Vitamin A requires cofactors to continue its metabolic pathway.

Zinc deficiency prevents liver stored vitamin A from being used The vitamin A-zinc connection: a review - PubMed

Copper is needed as well. "These findings suggest that a copper-deficient diet may cause defective transport of vitamin A from liver to blood."

Riboflavin (as FAD) is required to convert retinol (vitamin A) to retinoic acid via cytosolic retinal dehydrogenase
 
OP
F

feedandseed

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Dec 5, 2022
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Texas
@feedandseed, could you be deficient in vitamin E? I came across this quote today while looking through the Ray Peat Email Advice Depository thread:

“Me: I was surprised to hear that depression can be an allergic symptom.
I'm used to getting an itchy feeling on my skin from some supplements
and foods, but this is the first supplement I've gotten this sort of
reaction from. I still have dandruff and pimples, so I don't think I'm
getting too much vitamin A, especially since I only used one drop of
the vitamin. Can too much vitamin A lead to acne and dandruff too?

RP: Yes, but I've never heard of it with less than 50,000 units a day. An extreme vitamin E deficiency predisposed to A toxicity.”

This helped me - My eBooks

D displaces A, btw.

I took A on a RTW trip daily (can't recall why) and my skin began cracking and bleeding.
I’m definitely considering a vitamin E or D deficiency. The problem is that due to soy allergy I have a hard time getting vitamin E since I react to almost every supplement. I would try haidut’s vit e but I am concerned about gluten since it is wheat germ. With D I almost certainly get enough sunlight so I think it could be VDR dysfunction.

Or does the Vitamin A poisoning come first which causes hypothyroid.

Both Grant and Garret Smith discuss how Vitamin A attacks the epithelial cells in the body. If attacking these cells in the skin, then eczema. The body also has epithelial cells in the pancreas, the thyroid, the arteries and heart, and brain. So vitamin A poisoning could be causing diabetes, hypothyroidism, heart disease, and Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

To just say "if vitamin a is a problem, you are probably hypothyroid" is simplistic. How do people get to be hypothyroid? Maybe vitamin A was always toxic but body could deal with it better. But now with all the other poisons and toxins in our environment, the body gets too overwhelmed. It's like saying, if you have a problem with vitamin A, you are probably have Alzheimer's. Let's try to find the root cause. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but many people in Garret's group go on a low vitamin A diet and can get off the thyroid hormone pills. Maybe Ray Peat could never get off the thyroid hormones because he drank so much milk and orange juice. Same with Danny Roddy.

But really... wouldn't it be better to not need the thyroid pills.
I really don’t think vitamin A is inherently poisonous. I could be wrong but given how pervasive carrotene and A-containing meat consumption has been for centuries I really doubt it.
if vitamin A in foods is a problem, you are probably hypothyroid

have you checked your pulse and temperature?
My pulse and temperature are normal. I have felt “hot” since reintroducing iodized salt to my diet. Due to dairy and egg allergy it is very likely that I was iodine deficient until recently. The vit A reaction remains.

Vitamin A requires cofactors to continue its metabolic pathway.

Zinc deficiency prevents liver stored vitamin A from being used The vitamin A-zinc connection: a review - PubMed

Copper is needed as well. "These findings suggest that a copper-deficient diet may cause defective transport of vitamin A from liver to blood."

Riboflavin (as FAD) is required to convert retinol (vitamin A) to retinoic acid via cytosolic retinal dehydrogenase
I am not deficient in any of these things as I eat red meat for zinc, mushrooms frequently for copper, and take supplemental riboflavin (I know peat was not a fan but I have no reaction)

Some kind of functional zinc/copper blockage is certainly possible.
 

Jennifer

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I’m definitely considering a vitamin E or D deficiency. The problem is that due to soy allergy I have a hard time getting vitamin E since I react to almost every supplement. I would try haidut’s vit e but I am concerned about gluten since it is wheat germ.

Do you react to vitamin E sourced from sunflower oil? There are these soy-free vitamin E supplements:


 

gd81

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How do people get to be hypothyroid?.

People get to be hypothyroid a lot of ways- social stress, shitty diet, probably vaccines, you name it. I don't understand being hung up on vitamin A as the culprit, when has it ever been a significant cause of hypothyroidism?

But really... wouldn't it be better to not need the thyroid pills.

i dont see anything bad about using thyroid, It used to be in the food supply. i do see a bias against its use and instead a tendency to chase fads or obsess over diet etc
 

valzim

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People get to be hypothyroid a lot of ways- social stress, shitty diet, probably vaccines, you name it. I don't understand being hung up on vitamin A as the culprit, when has it ever been a significant cause of hypothyroidism?



i dont see anything bad about using thyroid, It used to be in the food supply. i do see a bias against its use and instead a tendency to chase fads or obsess over diet etc
Good points, especially about the food. We can all agree that it's shittier than ever.
 
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