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What Is "adequate Protein"?

Discussion in 'Protein' started by messtafarian, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Is there a standard daily recommendation for protein?

    Two quarts of nonfat milk have a total of around 33 grams of protein. If you added maybe an egg, some gelatin, a little cheese -- you'd be at something like 75; maybe.

    This is the Peat recommendation -- the milk and gelatin -- but is this also the "standard" protein recommendation?
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    At least 80 grams. Peat said he doesn't feel right with at least 100 grams IIRC.
     
  3. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I try to get at least 80 per day.
     
  4. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    There is a great thread in the diet section that covers the "basics" in detail.

    Ray Peat Diet, Food Choices, and General Guidelines

     
  5. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    :). Thanks. Is this in the email archive?
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    It should have read......Peat said he doesn't feel right unless he gets at least 100 grams of protein.

    Not sure where I read that.
     
  7. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I found it in this article, where he characterizes high protein in regards to progesterone dosage:

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml

    With a diet high in protein (e.g., at least 70-100 grams per day, including eggs) and vitamin A (not carotene), I have found that the dose of progesterone can be reduced each month. Using thyroid will usually reduce the amount of progesterone needed. Occasionally, a woman won't feel any effect even from 100 mg. of progesterone; I think this indicates that they need to use thyroid and diet, to normalize their estrogen, prolactin, and cortisol.

    I think there might be some situations where lower protein and higher sugar might be appropriate; for example if a sick person *really* needs to limit tryptophan.
     
  8. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Ray Peat recommends a minimum of 80 grams of protein and personally favors a high protein diet.

    Bone Density: First Do No Harm

    As Charlie mentioned, he does not feel well at less than 100 grams of protein but usually consumes more.

    Tryptophan can be a problem if muscle meat is the main source of protein - which Peat doesn't recommend - and is not taken with gelatin. Gelatinous cuts of meat, liver once a week and bone broth are preferred sources of meat.

     
  9. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    150 grams of protein is a lot of protein. I don't know to get to that without eating at least two servings of animal protein every day. Two quarts of milk for 60 grams, three eggs for 20 grams, two servings of meat for 40 grams plus two cups of gelatin. That still doesn't add up to 150 grams.

    If I ate that much protein in a day it would not stay in me I don't think.
     
  10. j.

    j. Guest

    But RP advises 80. He eats more, but people seem to forget that he supplements with thyroid on top of doing just about everything right for years and keeps his pulse at 95 bpm.
     
  11. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Good to know. This is how I get in trouble with protein. I look at what I'm supposed to be eating ( previously for the purpose of "burning fat and building lean muscle tissue") and there is just no way in my opinion that I could possibly get there. Isn't it that book Protein Power that tells you to eat 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight?

    The only way to do it is to add protein supplements three times a day, which leads a person to the protein bar aisle to ingest gobloads of soy. I'm glad it's 80 but even trying really hard my protein is only averaging 70 grams or so.
     
  12. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    I couldn't eat that much either!
    I get between 80 and 100 grams, but make sure to get at least 80. I don't find that difficult.
    I made bone broth with oxtail for the first time today and was amazed at how gelatinous and meaty the bones were. I have about 2 cups of this gelatinous meaty stuff that I strained from the broth, which I'm going to make into a stew or thick soup.
    My next experiment will be with chicken feet and necks! :eek:
    I normally use Great Lakes Gelatin but I think I'll start making a lot of broth, especially as we begin moving into fall here in the northern hemisphere.
    To me, gelatin is a superfood.
    I am inclined to eat less and less muscle meat, so I've begun experimenting in earnest with healthier sources of protein.
    BTW, Peat says that for adults a large part of our protein can be in the form of gelatin.

    Gelatin, stress, longevity
     
  13. j.

    j. Guest

    I don't think there's a huge difference between 70 and 80. Probably even 60 would be fine. Lots of people just have 20. You can worry about getting to 80 over time.

    If you don't have trouble drinking milk, 2 quarts of skim milk or fat free milk would be 70 already, I think, and not a lot of calories.

    200 grams of cheese have 44 grams.

    You could easily add 10 grams of gelatin to each cup of milk with coffee, so just one quart of milk plus the gelatin would be 75 grams. You add an egg and get to 82.
     
  14. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    The minimum is 80 for optimal metabolic functioning. Some people, especially active ones, need more.

    Do you use gelatin?

    6 TB of Great Lakes Gelatin provides 36 grams of protein.
    I add it to everything!
     
  15. j.

    j. Guest

    Most people who adopt the diet don't do all the recommendations the first day. Changing one's diet is stressful to the body. You should just eat what you comfortably can and try to increase a few grams each week or month.
     
  16. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Changing your diet is stressful on the body, but I think it behooves us to give people the correct information, rather than suggest to them that some people eat only 20 grams of protein or that 60 grams is sufficient.

    How is that helpful?

    Protein deficiency causes serious metabolic issues and leads to degenerative diseases. According to Ray Peat, chronic protein deficiency is a common cause of hypothyroidism.

    The question asked was the "standard" amount of protein. It is not that difficult to achieve when one is given the right information. No one said the changes had to be immediate.
     
  17. j.

    j. Guest

    It's helpful because it doesn't put unnecessary stress on getting that amount today, the body might not even be able to do it if she was eating like 20 grams per day, which many people do, while reminding her that over time she could get to the goal of 80. I eat more than 80, but when I was starting I was barely eating 50 or so even trying.

    Most of the benefits occur at the lower level increases. When you go from 20 to 40, you benefit. When you from 40 to 60, you benefit as well, but less than when you jumped form 20 to 40. Same thing when you go from 60 to 80. If she gets to 70 or even 60 I consider that spectacular for the first month.
     
  18. j.

    j. Guest

    Very often people answer with something that is not exactly what was asked, but which is related and would be useful. Haven't you ever listened to a Ray Peat interview?
     
  19. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I just ordered Great Lakes Gelatin but I think I'm confused about it. In most nutrition calculators it says that one envelope of regular gelatin has seven grams of protein. That means you'd have to eat 14 packets of gelatin a day to eat a hundred grams of gelatin. That is 56 servings of Jello right there. I can basically get in like maybe three packets a day at the most. It does sound like a superfood, I just can't figure out how to eat enough of it.

    4Peatssake, I think j. was just trying to be encouraging. 70 grams probably is not enough for me and I just have to try to eat more of it. Getting to 100 grams might take a while but it's a worthy goal :)
     
  20. j.

    j. Guest

    I don't think knowing the exact amount of grams of gelatin in a teaspoon is that important. First of all, you'll probably have to start slowly, a lot of people have digestive issues when they take a ton the first time. And once you consume it regularly, if you're like me, your body will tell you when you need more, say, for optimal sleep, and when to stop eating to not get sick of it.
     
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