What Has Improved Your Looks?

[Arrade]

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Testosterone goes up 0.8% with every lb of fat lost probably until the 8%bf mark. That's ALOT. Enough to illicit tissue remodeling. Ever seen women who've used anabolics for years? It literally changes their hard tissues and soft tissues alike.

I think that whole percentile thing is skewed since most people aren't even lean enough to actually see the intricacies of their unique bone structures. I think there's a reason aside from inherited traits like eye/hair color that the most healthy populations in the world are also associated with the most beautiful...they're generally leaner people.

Perhaps because lean people don't have fatty tissue causing aromatase levels to be high and estrogenic expression. I do agree that not just the fat but influence from low fat has an impact. However I had a 6 pack the whole time in college while lifting and it wasn't until years of lifting and protein intake that my jaw developed
@Elephanto ditto

 

[Deleted member 5487]

@Amarsh213 I have to disagree, Testosterone is the main determinant of attractiveness in the eyes of fertile women. They can sense it subconsciously and through pheromones, and it reflects in your physical looks and personality. Going from low testosterone to high testosterone can vastly improve your physical attractiveness, even the short-term testosterone elevation from a decent lifting session has a noticeable impact on female attraction. This is something that you can sense as a man in social situations, women may claim impossibly high standards, on social medias and when talking to other women, that you don't fit yet catch them be visibly attracted in your presence when Testosterone is high. Also developing an adequate facial structure from k2, Boron, proper tongue posture and from chewing hard food makes any face look better.

Your last sentience is correct. And yes T is important, but its importance mostly its during prenatal and adolescent exposure where it shapes the male

Simply injecting super physiological amounts of T may increase pheromone out put, increase shoulder to width ratio, and change behavior to more masucline and dominant. But small squirts after working out are not going to do anything.

But it won't change the Base structure. Your genetic capacity.

 

[Arrade]

I gotta mention, a goal of mine is to get demples in my face. As mk4 helps my jaw get wider I'm seeing the skin tighten arond the lips, forming more of a square than before.
Cheekbones, shorter face, and demples are my facial goals.
Luckily even though my face has grown wider from the side my cheeks look like squares: This may have to do with being 23 and letting my jaw grow from my wisdom teeth instead of removing them. I have full massiters (though not extended), some people have triangular faces with no back jaw
I really want to find exampls but its like they have no jaw behind their chin, it sloped upward to their neck

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Testosterone goes up 0.8% with every lb of fat lost probably until the 8%bf mark. That's ALOT. Enough to illicit tissue remodeling. Ever seen women who've used anabolics for years? It literally changes their hard tissues and soft tissues alike.

I think that whole percentile thing is skewed since most people aren't even lean enough to actually see the intricacies of their unique bone structures. I think there's a reason aside from inherited traits like eye/hair color that the most healthy populations in the world are also associated with the most beautiful...they're generally leaner people.

Testosterone will strip the fat from the face revealing the bones underneath. You discredited your own argument Weightloss T Boost=/=anabolic


Super physiological doses of both HGH and Anabolics are required to do that to men and women. Not simply dropping fat. T levels are healthiest at like 12-15% body fat as well.

Should have never posted so painful information, I knew it would stir up emotions.

Arguing back was even lower IQ of me.

im out.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

It’s all in the eyes, look into all their eyes, the rest becomes less significant, it’s from within radiatiting outwards, the superficial outer layer, the eyes are what Venus goddessses look into

"the eyes are what Venus goddessses look into" brutal

 

[Arrade]

Your last sentience is correct. And yes T is important, but its importance mostly its during prenatal and adolescent exposure where it shapes the male

Simply injecting super physiological amounts of T may increase pheromone out put, increase shoulder to width ratio, and change behavior to more masucline and dominant. But small squirts after working out are not going to do anything.

But it won't change the Base structure. Your genetic capacity.

I have to disagree, well maybe it won't change your capactiy which is a argument to use anabolics. However, it will allow your full potential.
I think the jump in HGH and IGF and Test from lifting sessions are actually huge. Most hormones come in pulses, and it's like pressure washing marble. Sure you could let a trickle slowly erode it but these intense sessions are like magnifying the force of your hormones. Not to mention they engrain further continous changes in hormone and expression.
If you don't try doing heavy squats for a full year and tell me if your face, voice, and mindset changed from the power of it

 

[Jon]

Perhaps because lean people don't have fatty tissue causing aromatase levels to be high and estrogenic expression. I do agree that not just the fat but influence from low fat has an impact. However I had a 6 pack the whole time in college while lifting and it wasn't until years of lifting and protein intake that my jaw developed
@Elephanto ditto

Whole heartedly agree. That's the point I was making. It's a combination of being lean and improved hormonal profiles that can remodel tissues to be more assertive and dominant looking. Most people who use anabolics try to keep a test baseline of 1200ng/dl but you can do this naturally by optimizing your lifestyle. I took mine from 430 to 818ng in 14 months. It's just very difficult because there's so many moving parts. You apparently weren't eating enough protein where I was eating too much lol.

 

[baccheion]

I gotta mention, a goal of mine is to get demples in my face. As mk4 helps my jaw get wider I'm seeing the skin tighten arond the lips, forming more of a square than before.
Cheekbones, shorter face, and demples are my facial goals.
Luckily even though my face has grown wider from the side my cheeks look like squares: This may have to do with being 23 and letting my jaw grow from my wisdom teeth instead of removing them. I have full massiters (though not extended), some people have triangular faces with no back jaw
I really want to find exampls but its like they have no jaw behind their chin, it sloped upward to their neck

Would you be able to take pictures throughout such that others can see face/bone changes?

 

[Jon]

Testosterone will strip the fat from the face revealing the bones underneath. You discredited your own argument Weightloss T Boost=/=anabolic


Super physiological doses of both HGH and Anabolics are required to do that to men and women. Not simply dropping fat. T levels are healthiest at like 12-15% body fat as well.

Should have never posted so painful information, I knew it would stir up emotions.

Arguing back was even lower IQ of me.

im out.

I'm not getting hurt feelings man lol. I'm enjoying the discussion. By no means am I trying to belittle you.

I don't see how I disproved myself? Testosterone is not a fat burning hormone. You can have high test and high bodyfat. Down stream effect of testosterone is it augments muscle tissue which then burns more fat at rest but the hormone itself does not illicit fat oxidation.

 

[Arrade]

Would you be able to take pictures throughout such that others can see face/bone changes?

I think you can see my lower jaw becoming more square and my maxilla pushing forward. This was without any mk4 or concept of mewing, just consistent lifting over maybe 2-3 years

 

[Jon]

I think you can see my lower jaw becoming more square and my maxilla pushing forward. This was without any mk4 or concept of mewing, just consistent lifting over maybe 2-3 years

Nice work!!

 

[Elephanto]

@Amarsh213 My experience doesn't match your theory but you are free to have this opinion. High Testosterone alone won't give you the supermodel looks if you were not high T during your development + lacked certain traits although it will improve your face but like I said, it becomes mostly irrelevant when a female is in your presence, the impossible standards are thrown away and this is coming from a 5'7 guy. I'm not an ugly guy but I observe that it is true for High Test men with rough looks too. And notice that I wrote "fertile women" (or I should say optimally fertile), a gender role reversal has taken place with many young women having low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men. But even then I find that High T + a few fine traits largely trump that.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I'm not getting hurt feelings man lol. I'm enjoying the discussion. By no means am I trying to belittle you.

I don't see how I disproved myself? Testosterone is not a fat burning hormone. You can have high test and high bodyfat. Down stream effect of testosterone is it augments muscle tissue which then burns more fat at rest but the hormone itself does not illicit fat oxidation.

Facial fat is inversely correlated to T levels.

 

[Jon]

Facial fat is inversely correlated to T levels.

Correlation is not causation. Like I said, a down stream effect of test is augmented muscle tissue which burns more fat at rest. This doesn't mean having high test will make you lean.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

@Amarsh213 My experience doesn't match your theory but you are free to have this opinion. High Testosterone alone won't give you the supermodel looks if you were not high T during your development + lacked certain traits although it will improve your face but like I said, it becomes mostly irrelevant when a female is in your presence, the impossible standards are thrown away and this is coming from a 5'7 guy. I'm not an ugly guy but I observe that it is true for High Test men with rough looks too. And notice that I wrote "fertile women" (or I should say optimally fertile), a gender role reversal has taken place with many young women having low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men. But even then I find that High T + a few fine traits largely trump that.

Alright "High Testosterone alone won't give you the supermodel looks if you were not high T during your development" we agree here.

"it will improve your face but like I said" it will lower fat on the face and increase muscle on the face, revealing the bones underneath. Nothing changed. It's always bones.

"low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men." Intresting

 

[Jon]

a gender role reversal has taken place with many young women having low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men. But even then I find that High T + a few fine traits largely trump that.

Lmao!! One of my co workers told me I reminded her of justin Bieber the other day...I think you're on to something there pal! Hahaha

Edit: she said this in a complimentary way (I think lol)

 

[Elephanto]

"low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men." Intresting

Yeah I made a post about this with studies here :
How To Feminize Women?

Also Benjamin is probably right about the eyes and this would account for the number of men (who are neither rich/famous) that date women who are "over their league" and incite jealousy from other men because they are "objectively ugly" according to them. Testosterone, high dopamine and low serotonin will help a lot with that though.

 

[Arrade]

Alright "High Testosterone alone won't give you the supermodel looks if you were not high T during your development" we agree here.

"it will improve your face but like I said" it will lower fat on the face and increase muscle on the face, revealing the bones underneath. Nothing changed. It's always bones.

"low Progesterone from birth control pills which increases Androgens and they are attracted to effeminate men." Intresting

Sounds like you don’t believe you can change bones?
Try mk4 and Vit D, lifting, and directly applying DHT cream to the face and see if your bones stay the same

 

[Jon]

Here ya go, evidence for BOTH sides of this argument to be fair and diplomatic :)

Androgens and Bone

"Androgens upregulate Transforming Growth Factor (TGF)-β and Insulin-like Growth Factors (IGFs), which stimulate bone formation [29,30], and downregulate Interleukin (IL)-6, which stimulates osteoclastogenesis [32]. Androgens inhibit parathyroid hormone (PTH)- or IL-1-induced prostaglandin (PG)E2 production [33], and PTH-induced cAMP production [34]. Androgens stimulate IL-1β production [35] and enhance the mitogenic effect of fibroblast growth factor (FGF) in cultured osteoblasts [29]. Dihydrotestosterone has been shown to reduce osteoprotegerin (OPG) levels, which could potentially stimulate osteoclast activity [36]."

 

[Arrade]

Here ya go, evidence for BOTH sides of this argument to be fair and diplomatic :)

Androgens and Bone

"Androgens upregulate Transforming Growth Factor (TGF)-β and Insulin-like Growth Factors (IGFs), which stimulate bone formation [29,30], and downregulate Interleukin (IL)-6, which stimulates osteoclastogenesis [32]. Androgens inhibit parathyroid hormone (PTH)- or IL-1-induced prostaglandin (PG)E2 production [33], and PTH-induced cAMP production [34]. Androgens stimulate IL-1β production [35] and enhance the mitogenic effect of fibroblast growth factor (FGF) in cultured osteoblasts [29]. Dihydrotestosterone has been shown to reduce osteoprotegerin (OPG) levels, which could potentially stimulate osteoclast activity [36]."

Nice. More androgens moh better

Btw for reasons I don't know yet my brow ridge has developed and my canthal tilt is more positive? I wonder what influences the canthal (eye) tilt...
I now my IGF-1 was above normal values, I wonder if it also had to do with injecting Tb500 into my temples two different times, because it increases blood vessel growth which could spur bone growth. At first I noticed my eyelids seemed to be growing but realized my bone ridge was starting to protrude forward. Now I have more of a shelf and downward eyebrows and eyes. Glad for it