What Has Improved Your Looks?

[Blossom]

sleeping on a silk pillow case. doesnt dry out the skin like cotton

It nice on hair too.

 

[Jon]

Why is it wanted in the liver more than anywhere else?

It prevents activation of kuppfer cells (they think) and thus prevents systemic inflammatory damage. This is why k2 is being thought of as a possible liver cancer treatment.

 

[Jon]

Dose-related influence of sodium selenite on apoptosis in human thyroid follicles in vitro induced by iodine, EGF, TGF-beta, and H2O2. - PubMed - NCBI

This is in vitro though. Things tend to work differently in the body. I just don't see the guarantee that you could attain that level of synergy in a bodybwith such precision short of being monitored closely and having frequent labs done to assure safe ranges were being kept.

Food supplements are powerful. I feel that most people truly don't respect that these isolated compounds often have the equivalency of perscription drugs in their potency, and for that reason are not to be toyed with in such high amounts without truly identifying a deficiency and a need for a specific compound.

Playing around with this stuff on a whim and here-say of other people who claim it's efficacy is a great way to get hurt. I've learned this lesson multiple times with supplements.

 

[Arnold Grape]

This is in vitro though. Things tend to work differently in the body. I just don't see the guarantee that you could attain that level of synergy in a bodybwith such precision short of being monitored closely and having frequent labs done to assure safe ranges were being kept.

Food supplements are powerful. I feel that most people truly don't respect that these isolated compounds often have the equivalency of perscription drugs in their potency, and for that reason are not to be toyed with in such high amounts without truly identifying a deficiency and a need for a specific compound.

Playing around with this stuff on a whim and here-say of other people who claim it's efficacy is a great way to get hurt. I've learned this lesson multiple times with supplements.

Which ones?

 

[baccheion]

This is in vitro though. Things tend to work differently in the body. I just don't see the guarantee that you could attain that level of synergy in a bodybwith such precision short of being monitored closely and having frequent labs done to assure safe ranges were being kept.

Food supplements are powerful. I feel that most people truly don't respect that these isolated compounds often have the equivalency of perscription drugs in their potency, and for that reason are not to be toyed with in such high amounts without truly identifying a deficiency and a need for a specific compound.

Playing around with this stuff on a whim and here-say of other people who claim it's efficacy is a great way to get hurt. I've learned this lesson multiple times with supplements.

I don't see why levels (TSH, fT4, fT3, rT4, rT3, thyroid antibodies, etc) wouldn't be checked if following iodine protocol.

 

[Jon]

Which ones?

Every micro nutrient has been used in clinical application and shown to have potency conparable to drugs aimed at the same goal for study.

Study's on insulin sensitivity and reversal of diabetes by a particular micronutrient compared to a drug like metformin are good for showing this.

 

[Jon]

I don't see why levels (TSH, fT4, fT3, rT4, rT3, thyroid antibodies, etc) wouldn't be checked if following iodine protocol.

Lol how many people you know if that get monthly bloodwork? That's what an intense protocol like Iodine loading would require to assure safety.

 

[baccheion]

Lol how many people you know if that get monthly bloodwork? That's what an intense protocol like Iodine loading would require to assure safety.

Really? There'd be a check a few weeks in to ensure it isn't causing problems, then a follow up a few months later.

 

[Jon]

Really? There'd be a check a few weeks in to ensure it isn't causing problems, then a follow up a few months later.

You can do irreparable damage to yourself in a few months. By the time you start feeling effects it may be too late to fix the damage you've caused. That's why monthly blood work would be ideal to show you trends asap to let you know if what you're doing is detrimental or not before you're hurt permanently.

 

[baccheion]

You can do irreparable damage to yourself in a few months. By the time you start feeling effects it may be too late to fix the damage you've caused. That's why monthly blood work would be ideal to show you trends asap to let you know if what you're doing is detrimental or not before you're hurt permanently.

It has already been shown to be fairly safe unless there's already some thyroid issue (Hashimoto's, etc). Initial blood work mainly serves as a sanity check.

 

[Jon]

It has already been shown to be fairly safe unless there's already some thyroid issue (Hashimoto's, etc). Initial blood work mainly serves as a sanity check.

Been shown where?

Why would you want to do something like iodine loading if you don't have thyroid issues? If you're healthy, I don't understand what benefit you'd believe you'd be getting from it? They claim you can detox toxic halides with iodine but I don't know if they've actually proven that?

 

[Elephanto]

I don’t think marijuana is estrogenic. It is more progesterone-ish.

Estrogenic effects of marijuana smoke condensate and cannabinoid compounds. - PubMed - NCBI

Soot is also estrogenic, so smoking anything is. (though the study shows estrogenicity of the compounds independently, unlike nicotine/tobacco which is anti-estrogenic).

I started losing hair a few weeks after starting to smoke cannabis, hair shedding would stop whenever I took a break. It gave my face an obviously estrogenic look, masturbating frequently added to it but the estrogenic look appeared within minutes of smoking a bowl. Many stoners develop gynecomastia. The only way it could have a net reducing effect on estrogen is if someone had chronically high levels of inflammation and by being anti-inflammatory would reduce the cortisol/estrogen that inflammation produces, while still keeping estrogen relatively high.

The role of cytokines in regulating estrogen synthesis: implications for the etiology of breast cancer

The activities of the aromatase, estradiol 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and estrone sulfatase are all increased by IL-6 and TNF-α. Prostaglandin E2 may also be an important regulator of aromatase activity in breast tumors.

(those are inflammatory cytokines)

 

[baccheion]

Been shown where?

Why would you want to do something like iodine loading if you don't have thyroid issues? If you're healthy, I don't understand what benefit you'd believe you'd be getting from it? They claim you can detox toxic halides with iodine but I don't know if they've actually proven that?

It's been shown by repeated use and selenium's effect in the study I linked above. There may be other studies, but I couldn't find them. Iodine protocol has many health benefits (anti- bacterial/viral/fungal/estrogen, protects breast tissue, protects against lipid peroxidation especially when SSKI is used, keeps mouth clean, softens/protects skin, has antioxidant effects in the brain, increases mental clarity and energy, protects testes, etc), and in the future, may be proven to increase lifespan.

 

[Jon]

It's been shown by repeated use and the study I linked above demonstrating selenium protecting the thyroid. There may be other studies, though I couldn't find them. Iodine protocol has many health benefits.

Like I pointed out earlier, that study you posted wasn't in vivo. But if you think it's working for you then I can't argue against that, I'm just not one to take risks on something that seems to have been founded on the here say of others.

 

[Jon]

Estrogenic effects of marijuana smoke condensate and cannabinoid compounds. - PubMed - NCBI

Soot is also estrogenic, so smoking anything is. (though the study shows estrogenicity of the compounds independently, unlike nicotine/tobacco which is anti-estrogenic).

I started losing hair a few weeks after starting to smoke cannabis, hair shedding would stop whenever I took a break. It gave my face an obviously estrogenic look, masturbating frequently added to it but the estrogenic look appeared within minutes of smoking a bowl. Many stoners develop gynecomastia. The only way it could have a net reducing effect on estrogen is if someone had chronically high levels of inflammation and by being anti-inflammatory would reduce the cortisol/estrogen that inflammation produces, while still keeping estrogen relatively high.

The role of cytokines in regulating estrogen synthesis: implications for the etiology of breast cancer

(those are inflammatory cytokines)

Good write up :). Speaking as someone who lives in Colorado, there's way too many pot heads trying to push weed as healthy. It's derivatives and their efficacy in cancer treatment and the like is something I think is seperate from this argument though. Then again, we're talking about an industry that promotes serotonin as a good thing so everything must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[baccheion]

Like I pointed out earlier, that study you posted wasn't in vivo. But if you think it's working for you then I can't argue against that, I'm just not one to take risks on something that seems to have been founded on the here say of others.

Isn't that what Peating involves doing? And mainly based on the "conjecture" of one person. Have you ever looked into iodine protocol? What research have you done?

While the selenium study wasn't conducted on live humans, it further supports observations of both iodine protocol followers and the creators. As the thyroid already has a high concentration of selenium (not relying on magical availability), it seems even more likely to work as shown. On the other hand, these observations/studies mainly just give enough confidence to look into the protocol.

 

[Jon]

Isn't that what Peating involves doing? And mainly based on the "conjecture" of one person. Have you ever looked into iodine protocol? What research have you done?

While the selenium study wasn't conducted on live humans, it further supports observations of both iodine protocol followers and the creators. As the thyroid already has a high concentration of selenium (not relying on magical availability), it seems even more likely to work as shown. On the other hand, these observations/studies mainly just give enough confidence to look into the protocol.

I downloaded the whole protocol on scribd long before I knew about ray peat. I know what it all entails.

"Peating" is a very subjective term and the activities of such are also subjective to an individual what what they perceive to be peating.

Conjecture, however is something I don't think Ray Peat engages in. He gives examples of studies that speak to the exact topics in question to back his opinions and has actually engaged in scientific research as a certified specialist in his field. This doesn't mean I think he's right about everything, but I don't think his views can be considered unsubstantiated conjecture, as he is a real scientist and academic researcher who has a more clear view of biochemistry than most of us.

 

[baccheion]

I downloaded the whole protocol on scribd long before I knew about ray peat. I know what it all entails.

"Peating" is a very subjective term and the activities of such are also subjective to an individual what what they perceive to be peating.

Conjecture, however is something I don't think Ray Peat engages in. He gives examples of studies that speak to the exact topics in question to back his opinions and has actually engaged in scientific research as a certified specialist in his field. This doesn't mean I think he's right about everything, but I don't think his views can be considered unsubstantiated conjecture, as he is a real scientist and academic researcher who has a more clear view of biochemistry than most of us.

I put conjecture in quotes. Studies can be cherry-picked, misleading, or misinterpreted. I suppose all these protocols/theories seem the same to me and it's as though I'm a half-aware child trying to navigate through a dense unending forest.

 

[Jon]

I put conjecture in quotes. Studies can be cherry-picked, misleading, or misinterpreted. I suppose all these protocols/theories seem the same to me and it's as though I'm a half-aware child trying to navigate through a dense unending forest.

Haha I can agree with that feeling! And I'm with you. People manipulate things for financial interest (hence the recently exposed research fraud for k2) but I really think ray Peat is one of the good guys. He doesn't try to sell anything and gives out advice freely, never marketing a product. Hell, he doesn't even really seem to care much about perusing science these days as he does painting lol.

My only point I was trying to make to you earlier was that I think it's better to play it safe. I think you can attain robust health without such extreme practices. But again, it's your perogative, and my opinions really don't amount to much lol.

 

[baccheion]

Haha I can agree with that feeling! And I'm with you. People manipulate things for financial interest (hence the recently exposed research fraud for k2) but I really think ray Peat is one of the good guys. He doesn't try to sell anything and gives out advice freely, never marketing a product. Hell, he doesn't even really seem to care much about perusing science these days as he does painting lol.

My only point I was trying to make to you earlier was that I think it's better to play it safe. I think you can attain robust health without such extreme practices. But again, it's your perogative, and my opinions really don't amount to much lol.

What fraudulent claims were made regarding K2? I agree that caution is a good thing.