What Do You Think About Climate Change?

[Travis]

So now you admit there are thousands when a few posts ago you said:

As far as chemicals, I suppose there are some synthetics unique to human production

As if you were conceding maybe a handful of them.

And now you try to belittle such an amount with this stupid anecdote:

What a big numbers, thousands. When I was a child I thought a thousand dollars was all of the money in the world.

 

[schultz]

Any papers on the relationship between CO2 and crop yield or plant growth? That's something I'd like to read, because there's no way China and India and Russia are going to stop burning fossil fuels.

I haven't looked around for any papers, but it is well known in the plant world that CO2 is important for plants. This is why greenhouses have CO2 generators. Here is a quote from the Canadian gov. website: Carbon Dioxide In Greenhouses

"In greenhouse production the aim of all growers is to increase dry-matter content and economically optimize crop yield. CO2 increases productivity through improved plant growth and vigour. Some ways in which productivity is increased by CO2 include earlier flowering, higher fruit yields, reduced bud abortion in roses, improved stem strength and flower size. Growers should regard CO2 as a nutrient."

I like the last part especially. CO2 is a nutrient. And thanks to Ray we know it is also important for humans.

Johnson CO2 Generator

I love the quotes from this website too...

"Carbon dioxide is one of the essential ingredients in green plant growth, and is a primary environmental factor in greenhouses. CO2 enrichment at 2, 3 or 4 times natural concentration will cause plants to grow faster and improve plant quality."

So increased CO2 in the environment is as "green" as it gets people.

"Join with modern growers everywhere - use Johnson CO2 Generators - the low cost way to produce CO2 - the nutrient of the new millennium."

Gotta love that last part. Indeed most people don't see it as the nutrient of the new millennium considering how much people seem to demonize it. I don't understand people.

 

[Herbie]

As far as Im aware, when plants inhale CO2 it increases photosynthesis by converting CO2 into sugar and phosphates. Plants convert water into oxygen.

If the powers that be truly believe that rising atmospheric CO2 is problematic then shouldn't the focus for climate change be on stoping deforestation?

Why isn't carbon monoxide or other carbons like aldehydes the focus from the exhaust of combustion engines and upgrading the technology of all coal burning power plants for a start?

I haven't seen any rational reasons as to why co2 is a problem for the climate or environment yet.

 

[aquaman]

There's too much focus on CO2 in this thread.

Ray says himself about man-made deforestation causing much of the terrible localised weather patterns we are seeing currently. Anyone remember which radio interview he mentioned it?

 

[Herbie]

I agree the focus is too much on co2 but thats what the media focus's on.

No but I remember him saying that the forests regulate the temperature of the earth as an insulation from wind and sun something along those lines.

 

[Queequeg]

There's too much focus on CO2 in this thread.

Ray says himself about man-made deforestation causing much of the terrible localised weather patterns we are seeing currently. Anyone remember which radio interview he mentioned it?

I think he wrote about it in one of his books

 

[Queequeg]

I agree the focus is too much on co2 but thats what the media focus's on.

No but I remember him saying that the forests regulate the temperature of the earth as an insulation from wind and sun something along those lines.

the irony is that it is the increase in CO2 that will lead to the reforestation of much of the world

 

[schultz]

There's too much focus on CO2 in this thread.

Ray says himself about man-made deforestation causing much of the terrible localised weather patterns we are seeing currently. Anyone remember which radio interview he mentioned it?

He mentions deforestation in chapter 6 of his book Generative Energy. The chapter is called "The Ex-Rainforests of the Pacific Northwest". If you don't have access to it, and want to read that chapter, I can upload it.

 

[amethyst]

I've heard/read that the core of the earth is actually heating up and is causing some of our environmental problems, but I have no way of knowing if this is true or not. I really don't think any of us know exactly why. I do think man is definitely a contributor to pollution...just look at the problems China has. They have all this industry and yet do very little to correct polluting their own environment. That's really unfortunate.

 

[Entropy]

The earth will release its own serotonin and flush us out if we're too irritating.

Earth will be ok, humans on the other hand ..

 

[aquaman]

the irony is that it is the increase in CO2 that will lead to the reforestation of much of the world

What are you basing this on? Somehow you've calculated that some extra natural regrowth is going to outstrip our ever-increasing destruction of forests and especially rainforests??! As world population increase another 50% to over 11bn and consumption increases exponentially, magically new forests will spring up?

 

[Queequeg]

What are you basing this on? Somehow you've calculated that some extra natural regrowth is going to outstrip our ever-increasing destruction of forests and especially rainforests??! As world population increase another 50% to over 11bn and consumption increases exponentially, magically new forests will spring up?

The Earth has experienced substantial greening from the increase in CO2 so far and will continue to do so. We have more plant life as measured by leaf coverage then we did 30 years ago. Improvements in world living standards will also lead to less deforestation from slash and burn agriculture and more rain forest replanting.

Also I wouldn't worry about the population bug-a-boo. Assuming we aren't being neutered, it is expected to peak at around 9-11 billion and then start to decline. The added CO2 will help feed the world in addition to new technologies that the doom and gloomers always seem to discount. Also as countries get richer their family size drops. The west is actually facing a massive depopulation nightmare.

CO2 and Greening
Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds
Rise in CO2 has greened planet Earth
Earth getting greener due to rising CO2, global snapshot shows
The world is getting greener. Why does no one want to know?
Loggers become seed collectors to replant Brazil's rainforests - CNN.com
population growth
Dominic Lawson: The population timebomb is a myth
Declining birth rate in Developed Countries: A radical policy re-think is required
Europe needs many more babies to avert a population disaster

 

[Queequeg]

I've heard/read that the core of the earth is actually heating up and is causing some of our environmental problems, but I have no way of knowing if this is true or not. I really don't think any of us know exactly why. I do think man is definitely a contributor to pollution...just look at the problems China has. They have all this industry and yet do very little to correct polluting their own environment. That's really unfortunate.

Totally agree. We are still polluting way too much. Especially in some parts of the developing world which have become an environmental mess. Unfortunately I think environmentalism has been hijacked by ideologues who have focused the world's attention and money on reducing beneficial CO2 while ignoring real environmental issues like clean air and water.

Interesting about the earth's core heating up. I think volcanoes and earthquakes are up too. I am sure the warming alarmists will somehow blame all of that on CO2 as well.

 

[aquaman]

Someone posted the Peat quote on deforestation which I think mentioned paper industry? Can anyone locate it?

In fact I req-quoted them from Jag's post: What Do You Think About Climate Change?

I think they sum up peat's view quite clearly.

 

[Queequeg]

Someone posted the Peat quote on deforestation which I think mentioned paper industry? Can anyone locate it?

In fact I req-quoted them from Jag's post: What Do You Think About Climate Change?

I think they sum up peat's view quite clearly.

I think that summarizes his views on environmentalism and economic growth. His views on climate change are as posted before:

"I think the general trend of the warming currently, the last 100 years or so is being driven by the sun’s normal cycle as far as it can be determined. There are not only the 11 year cycles but probably much larger cycles and several astronomers have been showing evidence that the solar constant has been increasing in recent decades enough to fully account for the planetary warming as far as that has been established." Ray Peat Minute 34. KMUD: 1-15-16 Water Quality, Atmospheric CO2, And Climate Change

IMO we tend to focus on CO2 because that is the most contentious issue involved in climate change and potentially the most world changing due to ill informed policy making. Plus I don't think you will get much of a debate going from anyone arguing for wide scale deforestation.

 

[Kyle M]

Alex Epstein on the label environmentalist: "To define your core philosophy as your environment, that's like saying in work “I'm an officist.” My whole purpose is my office."

 

[Regina]

Alex Epstein on the label environmentalist: "To define your core philosophy as your environment, that's like saying in work “I'm an officist.” My whole purpose is my office."

gggg - that's funny

 

[aquaman]

I would encourage you all to read Generative Energy Chapter 6 - or would anyone be against me sharing it as a separate PDF on here?

Here are some other interesting bits to go with Jag's posts (some repeated). I was thinking of posting this in the Trump thread because of the relevance to Resource extraction like oil, gas, coal etc. Trump is basically the Timber Barron that Peat references.

 

[aquaman]

Kyle, particularly relevant for you. Ray sounds very much like an "environmentalist"

 

[Travis]

Precisely. They set up a false dichotomy with the environment on one hand and the nebulous "economy" on the other.

As if you could not employ people in other ways. You could, for example, redirect the oil pipeline workers and welders to welding electrical conduit and wind turbines.

The possibilities are endless. Technology is being suppressed to benefit old constipated egomaniacs who protect and promote their style of profit extraction after they have lost their ability to be innovative.

More eco-friendly energy is available without having to compromise the normal state of affairs.