What do you guys know about DEPRESSION?

[UpAndDown]

Hi guys.

Ok, long story short I have Bipolar which means I swing between mania and depression. I take psych-drugs that seem to stop mania but do nothing for depression.

Now most people think of depression as being really sad, but for me it's more like a lack of feeling. Just no desire to do anything, almost nothing feels enjoyable, even food is barely enjoyable. I have to force myself to do everything, I really just want to lie in bed all day.

I do exercise, and the endorphins from that provide temporary relaxation, which is nice, but doesn't really solve my issue.

I've read some of Ray Peat's articles and I understand he's very anti-serotonin and advocates substances to reduce serotonin. So that looks like a place to start.

Hoping you guys can share your thoughts - can Ray Peat dieting potentially solve depression?

Thanks.

 

[answersfound]

It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

 

[Greg says]

Hoping you guys can share your thoughts - can Ray Peat dieting potentially solve depression?

Thanks.

'Health problems contain both a psychological and physiological element. If you don't get the nutrition part right then channelling the psychological emotions becomes a monumental task.'

RP's ideas can certainly help with depression, you are in the right place. Depression is complex, but it is certainly a low energy problem and RP is all about increasing our cells energy production. 'The body is capable of overcoming any health issue if given enough energy’. - Ray Peat PhD

I would start with the basics; diet. Blood sugar balance. Then your lifestyle; sleep, exposure to quality light, movement and detaching yourself from what the mainstream consider to be healthy. Then beyond that there are many other tools.

'Nutrition is one of the most important environmental influences on the nature of the organism.' - Ray Peat

Here is a good overview on diet...
https://raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20

Here is a great book on healing the metabolism based on RPs ideas. Get the foundation set.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Heal-Your-Met ... 1511585625

You are correct, high serotonin is related to depression.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/se ... sion.shtml
https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01 ... ad-love-2/

Chemical imbalance myth.

“Given the ubiquity of a neurotransmitter such as serotonin and the multiplicity of its functions, it is almost as meaningless to implicate it in depression as it is to implicate blood.” – John Horgan, The Undiscovered Mind

“A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found.” – Psychiatrist Joseph Glenmullen, clinical instructor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School

“Indeed, no abnormality of serotonin has ever been demonstrated.” – Psychiatrist David Healy, former secretary of the British Association for Psychopharmacology

“We have hunted for big simple neurochemical explanations for psychiatric disorders and we have not found them.” – Psychiatrist Kenneth Kendler, co-editor-in-chief of Psychological Medicine

“Although it is often stated with great confidence that depressed people have a serotonin or norepinephrine deficiency, the evidence actually contradicts those claims.” – Professor Emeritus Elliot Valenstein, Michigan University

“I spent the first several years of my career doing full-time research on brain serotonin metabolism, but i never saw any convincing evidence that any psychiatric disorder, including depression, results from a deficiency of brain serotonin.” – Stanford psychiatrist David Burns, winner of the A.E. Bennett Award given by the Society for Biological Psychiatry for his research on serotonin metabolism.

Depression is not “too little serotonin” or an “imbalance”. There is a multitude of reasons behind depression. In actual fact too much serotonin causes depression by inhibiting thyroid function.

'Are there undiagnosed cases of hypo-thyroidism in mental institutions? One hopes not, but possibly there might be. In 1949, a study in Britain indicated that such cases were frequent there and that many, once their thyroid deficiency was recognized and treated, could go home.' - Broda Barnes, MD, PhD

 

[Stilgar]

The b vitamins can be very significant for some people. B6, B1 and niacinamide specifically. It would depend on your situation as to whether dosing one individually or as a complex would help. Diet changes would usually be enough to not make supplements necessary.

What is your diet like?

 

[jaywills]

Stilgar,

Diet-wise what is the most efficient way to cover all b-vitamin needs particularly those that you mention above? (i.e. which foods and in what quantities)

 

[James_001]

post 117965 Stilgar,

Diet-wise what is the most efficient way to cover all b-vitamin needs particularly those that you mention above? (i.e. which foods and in what quantities)

Liver is packed with the b vitamins

 

[jaywills]

Cheers James. not trying to to nit-pick here, but how often can it be eaten to avoid copper toxicity or to one avoiding accumulation of copper?

 

[ecstatichamster]

have you tried taking your waking temps and heart rate?

I would try that first, and after breakfast. Maybe you are low in thyroid.

 

[Peata]

Reduce serotonin.

 

[James_001]

Cheers James. not trying to to nit-pick here, but how often can it be eaten to avoid copper toxicity or to one avoiding accumulation of copper?

No idea

 

[UpAndDown]

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hi! Thanks for this info.

When you say, "take thyroid", what are you saying? Is this a prescription drug like synthroid or is it a supplement?

 

[mayweatherking]

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hey what are the pre cursors for preg to work? I took preg and felt like absolute ***t. Like even more massively depressed and like nothing was right in thr wodldw.scared the ***t out of me.

I started thyroid since then and felt worlds better.. but there is still work to do. I wonder if I should try preg again while on thyroid and maybe it will make a difference

 

[answersfound]

post 118034

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hi! Thanks for this info.

When you say, "take thyroid", what are you saying? Is this a prescription drug like synthroid or is it a supplement?

It can be Synthroid (t4), that is the synthetic version. But you should take cyotmel (t3) with it if you do. However, forum member Haidut sells a supplement called tyromax which works equally as well, maybe better.

 

[answersfound]

post 118037

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hey what are the pre cursors for preg to work? I took preg and felt like absolute s***. Like even more massively depressed and like nothing was right in thr wodldw.scared the s*** out of me.

I started thyroid since then and felt worlds better.. but there is still work to do. I wonder if I should try preg again while on thyroid and maybe it will make a difference

100%. I found pregnenolone wasn't great when j didn't have any thyroid in my system, I got the allopregnenolone anger response or just straight ahedonia But then once I had taken thyroid for like two months pregnenolone was great. I think pregnenolone supressed stress hormones so you need to have thyroid in your system to take over. I take like a gram of pregnenolone a day now.

 

[mayweatherking]

post 118039

post 118037

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hey what are the pre cursors for preg to work? I took preg and felt like absolute s***. Like even more massively depressed and like nothing was right in thr wodldw.scared the s*** out of me.

I started thyroid since then and felt worlds better.. but there is still work to do. I wonder if I should try preg again while on thyroid and maybe it will make a difference

100%. I found pregnenolone wasn't great when j didn't have any thyroid in my system, I got the allopregnenolone anger response or just straight ahedonia But then once I had taken thyroid for like two months pregnenolone was great. I think pregnenolone supressed stress hormones so you need to have thyroid in your system to take over. I take like a gram of pregnenolone a day now.

That's crazy. What do you think about takijg a t3 only supp without a full thyroid supp? Like if someone had t3 laying around and was waiting on wp thyroid because they ran out

 

[answersfound]

post 118047

post 118039

post 118037

post 117947 It's a low energy issue. I would get on thyroid and high doses of pregnenolone ASAP. And aspirin too. I don't think Cyproheptadine is necessary despite all the hype around here. Aspirin, pregnenolone, and thyroid are the "big three" that ray always seems to recommend because they work. You may need like 500 mg of pregnenolone daily but it will get the job done. Pregnenolone has been used to treat bipolar and depression. It stabilizes things pretty quickly.

Hey what are the pre cursors for preg to work? I took preg and felt like absolute s***. Like even more massively depressed and like nothing was right in thr wodldw.scared the s*** out of me.

I started thyroid since then and felt worlds better.. but there is still work to do. I wonder if I should try preg again while on thyroid and maybe it will make a difference

100%. I found pregnenolone wasn't great when j didn't have any thyroid in my system, I got the allopregnenolone anger response or just straight ahedonia But then once I had taken thyroid for like two months pregnenolone was great. I think pregnenolone supressed stress hormones so you need to have thyroid in your system to take over. I take like a gram of pregnenolone a day now.

That's crazy. What do you think about takijg a t3 only supp without a full thyroid supp? Like if someone had t3 laying around and was waiting on wp thyroid because they ran out

Yea I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If do whatever your comfortable with.

 

[halken]

Structuring purpose.

 

[thegiantess]

'Health problems contain both a psychological and physiological element. If you don't get the nutrition part right then channelling the psychological emotions becomes a monumental task.'

RP's ideas can certainly help with depression, you are in the right place. Depression is complex, but it is certainly a low energy problem and RP is all about increasing our cells energy production. 'The body is capable of overcoming any health issue if given enough energy’. - Ray Peat PhD

I would start with the basics; diet. Blood sugar balance. Then your lifestyle; sleep, exposure to quality light, movement and detaching yourself from what the mainstream consider to be healthy. Then beyond that there are many other tools.

'Nutrition is one of the most important environmental influences on the nature of the organism.' - Ray Peat

Here is a good overview on diet...
https://raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20

Here is a great book on healing the metabolism based on RPs ideas. Get the foundation set.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Heal-Your-Met ... 1511585625

You are correct, high serotonin is related to depression.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/se ... sion.shtml
https://pranarupa.wordpress.com/2013/01 ... ad-love-2/

Chemical imbalance myth.

“Given the ubiquity of a neurotransmitter such as serotonin and the multiplicity of its functions, it is almost as meaningless to implicate it in depression as it is to implicate blood.” – John Horgan, The Undiscovered Mind

“A serotonin deficiency for depression has not been found.” – Psychiatrist Joseph Glenmullen, clinical instructor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School

“Indeed, no abnormality of serotonin has ever been demonstrated.” – Psychiatrist David Healy, former secretary of the British Association for Psychopharmacology

“We have hunted for big simple neurochemical explanations for psychiatric disorders and we have not found them.” – Psychiatrist Kenneth Kendler, co-editor-in-chief of Psychological Medicine

“Although it is often stated with great confidence that depressed people have a serotonin or norepinephrine deficiency, the evidence actually contradicts those claims.” – Professor Emeritus Elliot Valenstein, Michigan University

“I spent the first several years of my career doing full-time research on brain serotonin metabolism, but i never saw any convincing evidence that any psychiatric disorder, including depression, results from a deficiency of brain serotonin.” – Stanford psychiatrist David Burns, winner of the A.E. Bennett Award given by the Society for Biological Psychiatry for his research on serotonin metabolism.

Depression is not “too little serotonin” or an “imbalance”. There is a multitude of reasons behind depression. In actual fact too much serotonin causes depression by inhibiting thyroid function.

'Are there undiagnosed cases of hypo-thyroidism in mental institutions? One hopes not, but possibly there might be. In 1949, a study in Britain indicated that such cases were frequent there and that many, once their thyroid deficiency was recognized and treated, could go home.' - Broda Barnes, MD, PhD

I was searching the forum for info on bipolar bc a friend told me today that she is being referred to a psychiatrist in a different city bc her mental issues are "beyond the scope" of what her current therapist is comfortable with. Eek! I want to help her and this response was so thoughtful, I feel like I don't even need to make my own separate post. So thanks!

 

[Nicholas]

depression is a product of both physiological imbalances (which we or our environment are responsible for) and our thoughts/beliefs. I doubt that it's possible to have either/or. this is actually not just true for depression, but for any "mental disorder". First, nobody is really responsible for the thoughts they have because our thoughts do not belong to us....we don't formulate our own thoughts, they're something we receive. What matters is how we react/respond to those thoughts (which is also not something we do out of thin air). Physiologically, i would focus on blood sugar regulation and balancing every corner of one's life. There is no one hormone or one system to target for every person.

 

[goodandevil]

I remember ray describing how sodium and lithium are chemically similar, i think they're in the same family, same valence eoectrons, &c, and that lithium and sodium both reduced cortisol, is what he ascribes to "bipolar". Beyond that above posters are right, mental illness is bull****. If aren't satisfied with prevailing conditions, that makes you insane, so i just say be insane, but keep cortisol low.