What Causes/How To Heal Calcium Disregulation?

[lampofred]

What causes the body to not retain calcium? It seems that calcium disregulation is involved in many chronic issues like celiac disease, but I don't think I've seen Dr. Peat talk about it in detail? Is there anything else that can be done in addition to supplementing vitamin D and trying to become EFA-deficient?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

What causes the body to not retain calcium? It seems that calcium disregulation is involved in many chronic issues like celiac disease, but I don't think I've seen Dr. Peat talk about it in detail? Is there anything else that can be done in addition to supplementing vitamin D and trying to become EFA-deficient?

I think it needs to be clarified that Calcium is not to be seen as very positive after all, and is consumed to suppress the mechanisms of procurement if the contemporary supply runs low. A number of severe disease states converge on faulty Ca - metabolism, and too low amounts, but also too high amounts leading to hypercalcaemia and increased tissue burden. If you cannot handle the volume of Ca, it becomes toxic fast. I see Ca as something that has to be consumed in order to control it.

 

[BearWithMe]

I think it needs to be clarified that Calcium is not to be seen as very positive after all, and is consumed to suppress the mechanisms of procurement if the contemporary supply runs low. A number of severe disease states converge on faulty Ca - metabolism, and too low amounts, but also too high amounts leading to hypercalcaemia and increased tissue burden. If you cannot handle the volume of Ca, it becomes toxic fast. I see Ca as something that has to be consumed in order to control it.

This is such a common myth and the reasons why this is not true are so obvious, yet so often overlooked.

Yes, if calcium gets into wrong places, it can (and will) cause burden and disease.

But if you are replete with nutrients such as vitamin K2, the calcium won't get into wrong places.

When replete with nutrients such as vitamin K2, calcium is health promoting element even in huge quantities.

Add vitamin K2 to the equation and all of the studies "proving" calcium toxicity goes out of the window.

 

[BearWithMe]

There are several requirements for proper calcium metabolism.

First, you need bioavailable source of calcium, and enough of it. I have some doubts about bioavailability of calcium that doesn't come from milk and maybe eggshells.

Second, you need to have proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus and magnesium, probably something close to 1 : 1 : 1.

Third, you need enough fat soluble vitamins, again, in the proper ratios. Vitamin K is especially important.

Fourth, you need enough trace elements like zinc, manganese, boron. Especially the latter are often overlooked, yet they are absolutely crucial for proper calcium metabolism, absorbtion and retention.

But most importantly, you need stomach pH low enough to absorb all of the above. You can eat all the calcium you want, but if you don't have enough stomach acid, you absorb just a tiny fraction of it (or nothing).

If you are eating enough calcium and don't see the results, I would start here. Fixing your digestion and increasing stomach acid.

 

[ursidae]

There are several requirements for proper calcium metabolism.

First, you need bioavailable source of calcium, and enough of it. I have some doubts about bioavailability of calcium that doesn't come from milk and maybe eggshells.

Second, you need to have proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus and magnesium, probably something close to 1 : 1 : 1.

Third, you need enough fat soluble vitamins, again, in the proper ratios. Vitamin K is especially important.

Fourth, you need enough trace elements like zinc, manganese, boron. Especially the latter are often overlooked, yet they are absolutely crucial for proper calcium metabolism, absorbtion and retention.

But most importantly, you need stomach pH low enough to absorb all of the above. You can eat all the calcium you want, but if you don't have enough stomach acid, you absorb just a tiny fraction of it (or nothing).

If you are eating enough calcium and don't see the results, I would start here. Fixing your digestion and increasing stomach acid.

How would you go about increasing stomach acid?

 

[BearWithMe]

How would you go about increasing stomach acid?

Taking a few capsules of Betaine HCL with milk or milk products will force the absorbtion even if your body is unable to produce any stomach acid on its own. I wouldn't use it long term, but it is a nice quick-fix and good way to kickstart the healing and production of your own stomach acid.

In the long term, low stomach acid is probably fixed by vitamin B1 and good salt intake, glycine and caffeine also helps.

 

[ursidae]

Taking a few capsules of Betaine HCL with milk or milk products will force the absorbtion even if your body is unable to produce any stomach acid on its own. I wouldn't use it long term, but it is a nice quick-fix and good way to kickstart the healing and production of your own stomach acid.

In the long term, low stomach acid is probably fixed by vitamin B1 and good salt intake, glycine and caffeine also helps.

I’ve taken betaine before, didn’t know about combining it with a milk product, thanks

 

[Amazoniac]

But most importantly, you need stomach pH low enough to absorb all of the above. You can eat all the calcium you want, but if you don't have enough stomach acid, you absorb just a tiny fraction of it (or nothing).

I find it counterintuitive too, but people that don't produce enough stomach acid are claimed to have considerably superior absorption of killcium salts that don't depend on solubilization because when the acidified stomach content reaches the intestine, the acidity triggers pancreatic neutralization, this then leads to a partial formation of insoluble salts in the presence of hydrogen carbonate, which decrease what's available for absorption in normal conditions.

There's an optimal amount of acid for a proper coagulate to form, having a tough killcium-casein complex from excess HCl might make it difficult to extract the contaminant. The production of digestive enzymes in general can be impaired.
- Is Betaine HCL A Safe Supplement?

 

[BearWithMe]

I find it counterintuitive too, but people that don't produce enough stomach acid are claimed to have considerably superior absorption of killcium salts that don't depend on solubilization because when the acidified stomach content reaches the intestine, the acidity triggers pancreatic neutralization, this then leads to a partial formation of insoluble salts in the presence of hydrogen carbonate, which decrease what's available for absorption in normal conditions.

There's an optimal amount of acid for a proper coagulate to form, having a tough killcium-casein complex from excess HCl might make it difficult to extract the contaminant. The production of digestive enzymes in general can be impaired.
- Is Betaine HCL A Safe Supplement?

Do you have a link with more informations about this? What about the other minerals, are they also absorbed better with higher stomach pH? Increased absorbtion of Ca with decreased absorbtion of P and Mg might be more determinal than decreased absorbtion of all of them.

 

[Amazoniac]

Do you have a link with more informations about this? What about the other minerals, are they also absorbed better with higher stomach pH? Increased absorbtion of Ca with decreased absorbtion of P and Mg might be more determinal than decreased absorbtion of all of them.

- Calcium absorption and achlorhydria

Spoiler

"After completion of the absorption studies, suspicion was aroused concerning two of the subjects in the normal group, because their absorption values appeared to resemble those of the patients with achlorhydria. (None of the normal subjects had undergone gastric analysis before the study.) Their values were 0.423 [42%] and 0.415 for citrate absorption and 0.123 and 0.010 for carbonate absorption. Gastric analysis showed that the subject with the lower value for carbonate absorption had no gastric acid secretion with pentagastric stimulation; the other subject had no gastric acid in the basal state and impaired acid production with pentagastrin stimulation. For this reason, the data for the two subjects were excluded from the results in Table 1."

The difference in these special cases would be a higher stomach and lower initial intestine pH due to weak stimuli. This may be a particular concern when supplements are used since inadequate pH should affect enzyme function in a negative way and impair the release of encased nutrients in foods, making deficiencies the worry. The meal sufficed to normalize the absorption of supplemental killcium:

Spoiler

For the inferior killcium carbonate it went up and citrate could have gone down.

Lower doses don't tend to reach the solubility threshold, killcium remains soluble and makes it less susceptible to changes in pH. Killcium acetate is more soluble than citrate, I guess this is why it's easier to end up with a transparent solution of the former than the latter (often cloudy when agitated). Killcium in excess is prone to complex with carbonate and leave the solution.

Minerals whose uptake is facilitated by an acidic medium [I think that laxarium (Mg), pipium (Cu) and unimportantium (Mn) cations are examples] might be subjected to similar changes. But there are salts that are resistant and won't depent on favorable conditions in the gut, they're ready for absorption that can occur with the molecule intact.

 

[BearWithMe]

Achlorhydria is different to hypochlorhydria. Achlorhydria is actually pretty rare.

Hypochlorhydria is definitely linked to decreased calcium absorbtion and subsequent issues like osteoporosis.

Gastric Acid, Calcium Absorption, and Their Impact on Bone Health

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00015.2012

 

[not_James_Bond]

I’ve taken betaine before, didn’t know about combining it with a milk product, thanks

@ursidae or Ox bile salts and Choline
@ecstatichamster Are you still using Ox bile?, or you replaced it with Atichoke?

 

[Amazoniac]

Achlorhydria is different to hypochlorhydria. Achlorhydria is actually pretty rare.

Hypochlorhydria is definitely linked to decreased calcium absorbtion and subsequent issues like osteoporosis.

Gastric Acid, Calcium Absorption, and Their Impact on Bone Health

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physrev.00015.2012

But that would apply to eggshells, not the forms that are already water-soluble. They're arguing from the standpoint of solubilization, and yet meals may contain enough components to react with killcium carbonate and make it enter the solution. Check out the last figure above representing extreme cases that are deemed incapable of absorbing insoluble salts.

Acidity of the intestine may also help to return killcium to a soluble state. It would be similar to dumping killcium carbonate on vinegar: they don't combine immediately, but the killcium eventually becomes part of the solution, at least some of it, churning should facilitate and the presence of food must be needed.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

It was also shown that Calcium Carbonate gets at least partially or even fully uptaken intact, with intact molecular bond, so solubility is of lesser concern under these circumstances.

 

[Motif]

Taking a few capsules of Betaine HCL with milk or milk products will force the absorbtion even if your body is unable to produce any stomach acid on its own. I wouldn't use it long term, but it is a nice quick-fix and good way to kickstart the healing and production of your own stomach acid.

In the long term, low stomach acid is probably fixed by vitamin B1 and good salt intake, glycine and caffeine also helps.

Hi! How much b1 and salt would you say for this?
I think I don’t have any stomach acid

 

[BearWithMe]

Hi! How much b1 and salt would you say for this?
I think I don’t have any stomach acid

Hi Motif!

You want to take enough B1 to achieve speedy recovery, but not enought to cause stomach upset or disrupt the balance of other B-vitamins.

So the answer would be dependent on your current health status and intake of other B-vitamins.

100mg might be a good starting point, preferably in balanced B-Complex formula.

Thiamine HCL is the preferred form for increasing stomach acid, other forms works too but not as well.

With the salt, your stomach tolerance is probably the only limit.

If you don't have any stomach acid, you might not tolerate B1 or salt at all for a while. Been there, done that. I would definitely consider taking Betaine HCL.

Oh and start sloooowly

 

[Motif]

Hi Motif!

You want to take enough B1 to achieve speedy recovery, but not enought to cause stomach upset or disrupt the balance of other B-vitamins.

So the answer would be dependent on your current health status and intake of other B-vitamins.

100mg might be a good starting point, preferably in balanced B-Complex formula.

Thiamine HCL is the preferred form for increasing stomach acid, other forms works too but not as well.

With the salt, your stomach tolerance is probably the only limit.

If you don't have any stomach acid, you might not tolerate B1 or salt at all for a while. Been there, done that. I would definitely consider taking Betaine HCL.

Oh and start sloooowly

100 mg, alright . Others say 1 g. I took 500 today , but I won’t go higher and long term I won’t take that much.

i never felt any negative effect of salt. I can out a whole teaspoon in my mouth and sip some water after and never felt anything negative.

 

[BearWithMe]

100 mg, alright . Others say 1 g. I took 500 today , but I won’t go higher and long term I won’t take that much.

i never felt any negative effect of salt. I can out a whole teaspoon in my mouth and sip some water after and never felt anything negative.

If you tolerate it well, and if you are repleted with other b-vitamins, 500mg or even 1g is probably completely fine.

Just don't do it long term.

 

[Motif]

If you tolerate it well, and if you are repleted with other b-vitamins, 500mg or even 1g is probably completely fine.

Just don't do it long term.

Alright , I’ll just give it a go for a few days to see if it makes a difference

 

[BearWithMe]

Alright , I’ll just give it a go for a few days to see if it makes a difference

Not sure if few days is enough to see any improvements, especially if you have long term issues with stomach acid. I'd give it at least a month of very consistent B vitamins use