What biological/hormonal/energetic foundation "causes" attractiveness? Specifically. Not just "good thyroid function"

[ImprovingDaily]

Going to elaborate a bit here. When you see someone attractive, man or woman, what's the root of that attractiveness? Is it something like low estrogens? High DHEA? Low phosphorus? High CO2? Specifically, what is the biological environment to where they appear generally attractive? I know attraction is pretty subjective, but lets say someone like a sports illustrated model or an attractive actor or actress, what "sets the stage" for them to be generally more attractive than general?

 

[superhappy]

In photos its obviously a forward maxilla, good teeth, lean face, good bone structure, and nice skin. But in real life it seems like people that do a lot of pro-dopamine activities and don't FUD life usually are the most attractive. When people become less playful and more serious they lose that attractive aura.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

In photos its obviously a forward maxilla, good teeth, lean face, good bone structure, and nice skin. But in real life it seems like people that do a lot of pro-dopamine activities and don't FUD life usually are the most attractive. When people become less playful and more serious they lose that attractive aura.

Thats a good distinction, between photo attraction versus real life attraction. Would that less playful attitude be related to more adrenal activity/more cortisol levels? Being more relaxed I think is a factor. Softer eyes as opposed to wide open eyes (related to high cortisol or adrenaline levels) tend to be more inviting.

 

[redsun]

Going to elaborate a bit here. When you see someone attractive, man or woman, what's the root of that attractiveness? Is it something like low estrogens? High DHEA? Low phosphorus? High CO2? Specifically, what is the biological environment to where they appear generally attractive? I know attraction is pretty subjective, but lets say someone like a sports illustrated model or an attractive actor or actress, what "sets the stage" for them to be generally more attractive than general?

High androgens in men are the main way women are attracted to men. This shows in the behavior, but also pheromones related, voice.. Etc. For men its estrogen levels of women responsible for the lust for feminine characteristics like looks, behavior, voice.

Attraction is also related to dopamine and norepinephrine levels which elevate when we see someone we are attracted to.

 

[superhappy]

Thats a good distinction, between photo attraction versus real life attraction. Would that less playful attitude be related to more adrenal activity/more cortisol levels? Being more relaxed I think is a factor. Softer eyes as opposed to wide open eyes (related to high cortisol or adrenaline levels) tend to be more inviting.

Don't know how specific stress hormones affect looks specifically but generally its just the organism not having the energy to deal with whatever stressor or trauma they are dealing with. It could manifest in different ways from being super closed off to being psychotic and not acknowledging peoples boundaries. People that close themselves off tend to look a certain way and people that are psychotic tend to look a certain way. I honestly think your mind and how you feel and your outlook on the world tends to affect appearance a lot.

Other than that, if you are a dude and you have an ottermode body with a chiseled face from low body fat you'll generally look better than majority of guys. But that's just good looking in photos.

 

[JamesGatz]

It's a bit complicated -

Androgens/good thyroid function leads the horse to water - i.e. gives you all the energy and support to look like 10/10 but I do think your effort matters a lot more

If you spend some time with models - you will see many can eat like sh*t and still look decent and if you look at people who have been in this community who seem to be doing everything right - they look better but they don't necessarily become 10/10 in the face

High androgens/good thyroid function matters a lot in terms of expansion - many people like to think the maxilla or mandible "moves forward" when everything becomes right but theres more - The maxilla moving forward requires expansion and then after that with good posture - the necessary dislocations/movements/skull rotation takes place and then the person has good forward growth,

however

You will find plenty of people with good maxillary growth with sh*tty mandibular growth - tongue posture is not the road to everything - jaw posture does as well - when you begin to look better the skull changes dramatically - your spine, your neck, the shape of your skull, and your jaws move around the skull - things do not just "move forward into place" - if you notice for a hot chick if you look at her from behind and just look at her neck sometimes you can tell she's hot before she even turns around - this is because the spine changes with this growth too - i.e. something like the neck even has an attractive person look

Correct posture matters - high androgens and good thyroid function helps with the skull expansion which is required for this process to take place but ultimately half the battle - correct jaw and tongue posture completely matter - from what I've seen/experienced good thyroid function/hormones don't magically make you to have proper jaw and oral posture - it encourages proper positioning and gives you the tools to get there but you ultimately have to take that step

 

[ImprovingDaily]

High androgens in men are the main way women are attracted to men. This shows in the behavior, but also pheromones related, voice.. Etc. For men its estrogen levels of women responsible for the lust for feminine characteristics like looks, behavior, voice.

Attraction is also related to dopamine and norepinephrine levels which elevate when we see someone we are attracted to.

Good points. High androgens are definitely a plus in male to female attraction. A stressed out organism would tend to aromatize androgens into estrogens which turns the person into an estrogenic mess. Opposites attract I suppose. Maybe those stressed out men attract more "masculine" women?

 

[ImprovingDaily]

It's a bit complicated -

Androgens/good thyroid function leads the horse to water - i.e. gives you all the energy and support to look like 10/10 but I do think your effort matters a lot more

If you spend some time with models - you will see many can eat like sh*t and still look decent and if you look at people who have been in this community who seem to be doing everything right - they look better but they don't necessarily become 10/10 in the face

View attachment 30290​

High androgens/good thyroid function matters a lot in terms of expansion - many people like to think the maxilla or mandible "moves forward" when everything becomes right but theres more - The maxilla moving forward requires expansion and then after that with good posture - the necessary dislocations/movements/skull rotation takes place and then the person has good forward growth,

however

You will find plenty of people with good maxillary growth with sh*tty mandibular growth - tongue posture is not the road to everything - jaw posture does as well - when you begin to look better the skull changes dramatically - your spine, your neck, the shape of your skull, and your jaws move around the skull - things do not just "move forward into place" - if you notice for a hot chick if you look at her from behind and just look at her neck sometimes you can tell she's hot before she even turns around - this is because the spine changes with this growth too - i.e. something like the neck even has an attractive person look

Correct posture matters - high androgens and good thyroid function helps with the skull expansion which is required for this process to take place but ultimately half the battle - correct jaw and tongue posture completely matter - from what I've seen/experienced good thyroid function/hormones don't magically make you to have proper jaw and oral posture - it encourages proper positioning and gives you the tools to get there but you ultimately have to take that step

Interesting. So theoretically, if someone had good androgen and thyroid function, and if they for some reason didn't do the right things posture or tongue position wise, would they be not attractive?

CO2 levels might play a role as well. The less CO2, the more likely you will mouth breathe making the mouth not be positioned correctly. More CO2 would facilitate better bone growth as well. I suppose you could just say "good thyroid function", but yeah

 

[lampofred]

I think the main thing is calcium-to-phosphate ratio (calcium levels depend on literally everything you do, not just dietary intake; someone who drinks a gallon of milk a day but has a lot of anxiety will be dumping calcium via urine and will have less calcium than someone who drinks no milk and is relying only on the calcium accumulated as a milk-drinking infant but has no anxiety). Good levels of calcium optimize everything. There are ways to indirectly improve the calcium-to-phosphate ratio by lowering phosphate rather than raising calcium (such as by eating only sugar rather than starch) and thereby increase attractiveness but I think these only work in the short-run and have bad effects in the long-run, as opposed to raising calcium which seems to be beneficial in both the short and long-run (for example, it would be very easy to become orthorexic by forcibly restricting starch even if you're craving it and as a result of insufficient caloric intake, end up with only the growth of the reproductive parts of your brain as opposed to other parts).

I think keeping as high a metabolic rate as possible daily (via coffee, chocolate, thyroid, avoiding PUFA) would also increase attractiveness in the long-run.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

I think the main thing is calcium-to-phosphate ratio (calcium levels depend on literally everything you do, not just dietary intake; someone who drinks a gallon of milk a day but has a lot of anxiety will be dumping calcium via urine and will have less calcium than someone who drinks no milk and is relying only on the calcium accumulated as a milk-drinking infant but has no anxiety). Good levels of calcium optimize everything. There are ways to indirectly improve the calcium-to-phosphate ratio by lowering phosphate rather than raising calcium (such as by eating only sugar rather than starch) and thereby increase attractiveness but I think these only work in the short-run and have bad effects in the long-run, as opposed to raising calcium which seems to be beneficial in both the short and long-run (for example, it would be very easy to become orthorexic by forcibly restricting starch even if you're craving it and as a result of insufficient caloric intake, end up with only the growth of the reproductive parts of your brain as opposed to other parts).

I think keeping as high a metabolic rate as possible daily (via coffee, chocolate, thyroid, avoiding PUFA) would also increase attractiveness in the long-run.

Great point about anxiety dumping calcium through the urine. So sufficient calcium intake, low stress, high energy production. That rings true with me.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

My tentative theory for attractiveness is that it definitely depends on the person, but in general, low stress (cortisol/adrenaline), high levels of the youth hormones (Pregnenolone/DHEA(in particular.. but not compltely certain)/ sufficient Progesterone), low aromatization, high CO2 levels, good liver function, high dopamine. Obviously this could be said to be "good thyroid function", but this could be said for many things, so I prefer specifics.

 

[Apple]

Going to elaborate a bit here. When you see someone attractive, man or woman, what's the root of that attractiveness? Is it something like low estrogens? High DHEA? Low phosphorus? High CO2? Specifically, what is the biological environment to where they appear generally attractive? I know attraction is pretty subjective, but lets say someone like a sports illustrated model or an attractive actor or actress, what "sets the stage" for them to be generally more attractive than general?

Why not thyroid function?
look into Broda Barnes book about thyroid...He mentioned that normal thyroid people tend to not pair off with low thyroid people.
Low thyroid people usually marry other low thyroid people and get low thyroid kids.

 

[ImprovingDaily]

Why not thyroid function?
look into Broda Barnes book about thyroid...He mentioned that normal thyroid people tend to not pair off with low thyroid people.
Low thyroid people usually marry other low thyroid people and get low thyroid kids.

I say not thyroid because its a catch-all term and kinda kills discussion. If the answer is good thyroid, then theres no room for further debate. Administering T3 to an ugly person isn't gonna turn them into an attractive person, there's more to it. I'm more interested in what aspects of good thyroid function are involved. I also think that its possible for a person with sub optimal thyroid function to be very attractive and someone with optimal thyroid function to be unattractive. So there's aspects that are not 1:1 correlated to thyroid.

I do agree with your last sentence though. I think, energetically, like attracts like. Wholesome people attract wholesome people, fools attract fools, adventurous attracts adventurous, etc.

 

[hei]

I think it's mainly bone structure and that adult health and function (personality, behaviours) follows the form established in development. So it would be energy and nutrients during development. The head is really the origin of power in the body and men with broad, developed faces are more confident and do better at martial arts, weight lifting, high-pressure jobs, dating, etc. Basically they do better at everything and there's no advantage to not being like them. Things like confidence aren't really things you can choose as much as deriving from the way you interact with the environment, which is pretty well established by your overall form.

I have an ugly underdeveloped face/head and can't even make proper facial expressions. Where attractive people "light up the room" with their smiles, mine look like grimaces. I think that having a relatively frail physical structure makes me inherently nervous, and I'm not taken seriously by people because I'm as ugly as dirt and very weak-looking.

The influence of one's current or recent physical state is basically window-dressing and generally not really the difference between being attractive or not. Having youthful properties as a handsome man just makes you look like a healthy young man, but when you're underdeveloped it makes you look like a ******* kid and ageing makes you look like an old kid.

 

[catharsis]

I've noticed a lot of benefits and more attention towards me due to high dopamine/low serotonin, high fat-soluble vitamin intake, high mineral intake (Na, K, Mg, Ca), high carb intake (high CO2 hopefully from this), medium protein intake (keep ammonia low), and fat only from SFA (enough for normal hormone production, I've read 30% is good but doublecheck).

In general, keeping hormone production high and dopamine high can lead to an attractive foundation but bone and muscle development takes time. You should set up the foundation so you can work on the physical development. High dopamine can help with improving yourself; talking to more people, learning new skills, developing hobbies, etc.

One thing I can say is you can become too attractive depending on the context and environment. If you are figuratively glowing around your peers, you can be disliked because you're different from others. In some countries where SSRI usage is prevalent (among other things), high serotonin individuals can be antagonistic or even aggressive against high dopamine people...

 

[vickypicky]

Wow, what an interesting topic! I agree that a lot of it has to do with thyroid function, but also how healthy your mother’s mom was. Insane how far back you’d have to go.

Female babies’ eggs are created while the baby is still in utero - around month 3 or 4 I think?

Being breasted or not is pretty much a deal breaker I think. If there was no tongue tie present, of course! If one was breastfed for at least a year - they’d have a nice, wide palate, which results in straight teeth, nice jaw, and a forward chin. Not to mention the nutrients you’d get.

I was breastfed for 3 months, my mother couldn’t nurse me because of how painful it was because I had a tongue tie. Growing up I had a really nice and wide jaw, but very crowded teeth.

I’m a super average girl when it comes to looks and truthfully, after I got married at 18, I didn’t care much about my health or beauty. I was focused on the kids and volunteering. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's after my first was born and have gained a significant amount of weight with the pregnancy. 4 babies later - my weight and looks fluctuated, I worked out here and there, but never really committed to looking my best.

There’s a reason I’m writing this, hopefully I haven’t bore you yet! ?

After learning about Peat at the end of 2019 - I started prioritizing my thyroid health. Now in 2021 I, all of a sudden, I want to look good. For the first time in FOREVER, I started prioritizing my appearance.

And I’m not talking about Botox and getting my hair done.

I got my tongue tie released, working with a therapist for proper tongue posture, getting a palate expander, straightening teeth, lifting weights, taking care of my face, dry brushing, etc.

I literally only noticed this while reading through the thread and this just confirms that thyroid function is KEY!!! I didn’t care if I was hot or not when my thyroid function was low ?

This was so helpful for me to realize and hope it’s helpful to you, too ?